Tyre Placement

[Grant 4]

Hi All

I am asking for opinions here (with intelligent reasoning, not just some stupid pointless response with no reasoning backing it up).

Here is the scenario, and what has lead to this post.

On my car I have 2 almost new Yokohama A539's, and 2 half worn Yokohama A539's.

I am of the opinion that even on a rear wheel drive car you should have your best tyres on the front. My reasoning is as follows:

1) The front of the car does the steering (obviously) and the majority of the braking, so having the best grip possible will enable you to brake more quickly as well as be able to turn more quickly.

2) If traction is broken in a rear wheel drive car, it is much harder to control the front should you lose traction, than the rear (should traction be broken at that end), therefore to me it makes sense to me to have as much grip and control on the front as possible.

3) My last thought is that I am much more confident of beign able to control the rear end of the car should it break away then I am the front.

What brings this up, is that yesterday when I got a wheel alignment done, the guy was saying that I should have the better tyres on the rear, as that is the end that I am most likely to lose traction in.

What are your thoughts, opinions? Maybe I am completely wrong.

Cheers

[Carl 3]

Being of humble experience when it comes to actually losing traction in my E30 I would be of the same frame of mind as you Grant in assuming that the front is more important than the rear.

My front tires are wearing alot faster than my rear, therefore, one would assume that the front is doing more work than the rear which is definately evident through cornering.

Unless you were concerned about losing traction from take off and from exiting a corner I fail to see why the rear end would be more important EVEN for a rear wheel drive car.

My 2c.

Cheers

[318is 0]

Best tyres on front ALWAYS

[petone 0]

Normally the best tyres on the front. But it is up to you. And it will only make a difference in the wet. Another thing to consider though, if you lose the front chances are it will only be a little bit of understeer, if you lose the back in a big way chance are its going to be much worse. just something else to think about. Seen as you reckon you got oversteer under control i would put the best tyres on the front.

Dunno if that makes sense but my 2c

Edited September 29, 2004 by petone

[Gus 5]

you missed reason number 4: oversteer is fun

but seriously, its is

i would much rather be able to brake and steer than worry about a little sideways

movement...its no biggie...ill put it this way....i can drive round in the wet perfectly

(almost) safely on bald rear tyres. its not clever, but its do able. i wouldnt dear try

and drive much on the wet with bald fronts. the wheel alignment guy is full of sh*t in

my humble opinion. and before someone points out many cars have wider rears than

fronts thats fine.....but thats assuming the fronts are in good condition too

[Guest Andrew]

He could be referring the car is meant to be setup for understeer from the factory and by running the tyres like that you are getting unpredicable handling conditions.

[*sic 1]

front, yes there is driving power being placed down through the rear wheels but as already said the front are the ones that are doing both the steering and the majority of breaking, it seems only logical that these need the better set.

who wants to come rushing to a corner and realised they only have tyres that put forward power down on the road and you aint got nothing to turn with!! understeer is :thumbsdown:

[m325i 709]

*sic you should know all about understeer

But seriously, oversteer is fun..

But e30s in the wet can be stupid.

I vote good on front.

[cainchapman 0]

Grant, it appears everyone agrees. And I do too. Front tyres to steer and brake are ultimately more important. Although the weight will transfer to the front in the occassions you are talking about and provide more grip to the fronts than the backs (standard physics)

The comment would probably be driven by the fact that most car designers are design an understeer characteristic into their cars. It is inherently more safe to do this.

Most people panic in a slide and button off. If your car is understeering, it generally regains composure and you get to breath again. In oversteer, as I'm sure most of you have found out. This same behaviour will cause the car to change directions immediately, causing more panic and a spin.

Keep them on the front. Practice your drifting.

[*sic 1]

*sic you should know all about understeer

But seriously, oversteer is fun..

But e30s in the wet can be stupid.

I vote good on front.

not in my rc car style suspension and grip! i mean my crx doesnt even know what understeer is!

[downlow 0]

gud tires on tha front

nuff said!

[*sic 1]

gud tires on tha front

nuff said!

ned to lern two speel werds rite for gud enland spe@k

[martyyn 2]

Ok, Ill buck the trend.

New tyres should always go on the rear and I shall let these fine manufacturers explain the reasons why.

Michelin....

http://www.michelin.co.uk/uk/auto/auto_con...ib_pqr_neuf.jsp

Pirelli....

http://www.pirelli.co.uk/en_GB/tyres/car_s.../tech4_gb.jhtml

Ultimately its a personal choice and I would rather have control of the rear if it came down to it.

If you were to lose the front you take your foot of the gas and the rear grip will see you right, but if you lose the rear there is very little you can do to regain that grip until your spin comes to a standstill !

Fortunately (or unfortunately - depends on your outlook) I dont have this problem with 255's on the front and 275's on the rears ;-)

Cheers

Martyn

[E30-323ti 66]

Fortunately (or unfortunately - depends on your outlook) I dont have this problem with 255's on the front and 275's on the rears ;-)

With tyres that wide, when they wear down you'll find it will aquaplane like a swamp boat!!

Many people make the mistake of "over tyre-ing" vehilces thinking they are getting more grip by doing this, when in fact they are losing grip in some (extreme) cases.

I'm not saying your 2ton ubersaloon is over tyred, just that width isn't the answer.

And I'm sure you could get the beast sideways if you give it enough encouragement!!! Now that would be a sight!!!

[martyyn 2]

I agree totally that width is not always the answer.

I was just saying that I dont have the problem of whether to put them on the front or the rear because they are staggered, not that I never lose any grip because of the width.

Getting it sideways is easier than you think. Turn off the ASC, switch into manual and you can do it without even trying.

Cheers

Martyn

[MattA 164]

Mmm 7 with smokin bags... that would be worth seeing

[Gus 5]

from michelin:

The driver will have no chance of controlling the rear, and will be tempted to accelerate further, which will amplify the spin effect. Only an experienced driver will be able to recover from this dangerous situation...

oh no....evil oversteer

nanna drivers (including most of nz)

[E34-535ti 5]

On my car I have 2 almost new Yokohama A539's, and 2 half worn Yokohama A539's.

I am of the opinion that even on a rear wheel drive car you should have your best tyres on the front.

You haven't stated which you consider to be the "best" pair....

To be honest I don't think you'll notice any difference in performance between them.

But arguably in the dry the half worn pair are the best as you'll get less tread block movement which will mean the tyres stay cooler and therefore shouldn't overheat leading to a loss of grip. Assuming of course they don't use a multy level compound construction which gets harder as it wears. Plus if you have them on the front turn in should be crisper. And it should track better.

In the wet they'll perform the same up to the point where the half warn ones stop pumping the water away and start to aquaplane.

Of course the above is pure theory (total BS even?) and isn't overly applicable in the real world.

In conclusion, if it was me I'd put the half worn ones on the rear to even out the wear and get maximum mileage out of both sets.

[Carl 3]

But arguably in the dry the half worn pair are the best as you'll get less tread block movement which will mean the tyres stay cooler and therefore shouldn't overheat leading to a loss of grip. Assuming of course they don't use a multy level compound construction which gets harder as it wears. Plus if you have them on the front turn in should be crisper. And it should track better.

Who's going to argue with that???

In conclusion, if it was me I'd put the half worn ones on the rear to even out the wear and get maximum mileage out of both sets.

Exactly my thoughts

[Jimocles 0]

The only right answer is.....

best tyre's go to the back

and here's why

having the good tyres on the front (on a RWD)

will give you better turn in and front grip no question

but, most of your feel comes through the steering

if your fronts start to slip its easy to button off and regain control

but if your rears are more worn than the front you will be tempted to

turn in to corners faster than the rears will be able to handle

resulting in loss of traction at best, hideous spin into a lamppost at worst

granted loss of traction at rear is quite fun, but for better control of your car

put the goodies at the back

The Proof

"shameless name dropping bit ahead"

1. I was having breakfast with Jim Richards this morning and asked him that

and that was the answer he gave me, so I'm willing to take it as gospel

especially seeing he's a slightly better driver than I dream I am.

2. I work for Dunlop Motorsport, and see every tyre placement theory under the sun, and have yet to see any thing to make me change my opinion.

3. I couldnt care less about FWD cars so sorry no words of wisdom there

(although its the same, best to the back)

[E30-323ti 66]

Sounds good to me.

although, in a real world situation (not racing etc...) I would want the front to behave the best it can, brake/turn to avoid a collision (esp. if it is wet!!), and I'd expect new tyres to provide this.

With worn tyres on the rear it is just as easy to modify your driving style to compensate (which is not a solution in a race situation 'cause it usually costs you time!!)

My $0.02

Jimocles

I work for Dunlop Motorsport,

Would that explain why I see your car outside Kaiwharawhara Beaurepairs quite often??

And, can you do good deals on race rubber??

PM me, thanks.

[Gus 5]

i cant stand understeer....would much rather have the back come out on a wet day every now and then than feel myself ploughing into the outside of a corner....and in the dry i find having better tyres on the front than the back actually helps get rid of the e30 understeer characteristics.....makes it a lot more neutral. whilst i can see the point of view for having better tyres on the rear, i still prefer myself having them on the front....i just love oversteer

[m325i 709]

....i just love oversteer

Hate to brag, but imagine how much better with an LSD

[Gus 5]

imagine how much better with an LSD

i know..which is why im moving out of the realms of imagination

[shadowninja 0]

I've always been recommended to wear the best treads on the rear, especially for my last two cars that have been RWD.