darkwolf 0 Report post Posted February 18, 2009 I had a wheel alignment done yesterday and I'm not happy with it. Firstly, it doesn't feel right at all. At 100KPH I've noticed: I can't travel between telephone/power lines without the car veering left. I still have a slight wobble in the steering (which could be caused by the roads here in Levin). The steering wheel is sitting at about 350-355 degrees (remembering maths rotation is anti clockwise) Just as I went to post this I read the sheet and a few of the primary angles aren't within the specifications. I also have 4mm setback on the front of the car and an 8mm set back on the back. Now I don't want to go off half cocked but if my wheel alignment hasn't been done properly I'd like to know. Can any tyre guys / mechanics / knowledgeable people shed any light on this for me? Has my alignment been done properly or am I just being ridiculously paranoid about my baby? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apex Effects 3 Report post Posted February 18, 2009 I had a wheel alignment done yesterday and I'm not happy with it. Firstly, it doesn't feel right at all. At 100KPH I've noticed: I can't travel between telephone/power lines without the car veering left. I still have a slight wobble in the steering (which could be caused by the roads here in Levin). The steering wheel is sitting at about 350-355 degrees (remembering maths rotation is anti clockwise) Just as I went to post this I read the sheet and a few of the primary angles aren't within the specifications. I also have 4mm setback on the front of the car and an 8mm set back on the back. Now I don't want to go off half cocked but if my wheel alignment hasn't been done properly I'd like to know. Can any tyre guys / mechanics / knowledgeable people shed any light on this for me? Has my alignment been done properly or am I just being ridiculously paranoid about my baby? well all angles aside from toe seem to be in spec(with in the manufacturers tolerances) to is a little to much on the negative side according to the specs on the sheet. dont worry about the sai angle its to do with the strut tower angle to the bottom of the tyre/road i think from memory. front camber on the right side needs to be adjusted a little better. an thrust angle would be better if it was 0'd. if un happy with how it feels an have the money to do so get another one from else wheres. as for the steering wheel he just didnt straighten it after he adjust everything. a good wheel alignment technician always straightens the steering wheel cos he knows no one like driving with a crooked wheel as it just feels weird. well thats my 2cents Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bravo 34 Report post Posted February 18, 2009 Looks pretty good to me. Seems a bit shoddy that they didn't realign the steering wheel after they finished, but other than that the numbers seem fine. I don't have factory specs in front of me, but I'm looking at the numbers and don't see anything glaringly obvious with the exception of your rear setback which is about as much as you would accept before wondering why it was so large, so don't worry about that (its also not adjustable on most cars - including yours AFAIK - and caused by long-term flex and/or something being bent or worn bushes). The wobble will not be an alignment issue - either a worn steering component, or an unbalanced wheel. The pull could potentially be an alignment issue, but the numbers look good so I'd be looking at a soft tyre on the LHS as the first thing to check. The camber on the rear is fine. You are lacking some rear toe, but I don't think it's adjustable on your car. Interesting the amount of variation between before and after on rear toe, but I get similar changes on my alignments and wonder if it has something to do with the way in which they do the tests. They should have test-drove your car afterward and picked up the pull. If it's not an alignment issue you need to look at tyre pressures, uneven wear on tyres and worn steering components (which may be the case since you have a wobble). Unfortunately fixing the latter will require another alignment. I would have hoped a reputable alignment shop would have picked up play in the steering, but you never know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pjay 8 Report post Posted February 18, 2009 You have a buckled rim mate. Thats where my money is. If your brakes shudder a bit, buclked rotor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sp8s 1 Report post Posted February 18, 2009 (edited) One thing to do (only if you have nondirectional tyres ) is swop the front tyres from left to right - right to left this will show if it is an alignment problem or the tyres have set themselves to pull in one direction. No I'm not kidding you tyres can set themselves up to do the pull to one side thing. If they are directional tyres swop front to rear. The wobble in the steering could be a number of things ranging from bent rim to worn steering/suspension/brake components. This should have been picked up by the alignment guy because you cant do an alignment if the wheel is buckled or steering/suspension components are worn. Going by you saying the steering wheel is not centered I would be concerned that the person that done the alignment might not really have the expertise that they should have. I was an alignment tech for a few years a while back and had a pretty good rep, not blowing my own horn here but I do have a bit of knowledge. With out seeing or inspecting the car no one could really give you a qualified answer to your concerns. The next step I would suggest is to take the car to someone who knows BMW's or someone you trust. Edited February 18, 2009 by sp8s Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwolf 0 Report post Posted February 18, 2009 I'm glad to hear that the numbers seem ok. The only reason I was worried about the numbers is because it seems to have min and max specs. The FR Camber is outside of these. The RR Camber is outside of these. The rear toe is outside of these. And there is a 0.5 degree difference between the RL and RR camber. If these specs aren't meant to be followed why print them? And I always thought that the an alignment was to bring everything into line. So why isn't my camber somewhere close. I think my biggest problem is that I don't know a whole lot about what I am dealing with. So when I look at these numbers (being an accountant and liking numbers to match up) it makes me think that something wasn't done right. The other problem is that normally I would have taken it to a specialist alignment centre. But as I have no idea where one is down here. I didn't have a lot of money to get this done as I have just had to unexpectantly fork out for 2 new rears (hence the alignment) but regardless of price if somebody advertises wheel alignments I would expect something near accurate. But then again because I don't much about wheel alignments I don't know if it has been done properly and I'm being overly concerned or if I'm just being dicked. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bravo 34 Report post Posted February 18, 2009 There is not 0.5 degrees between the RL and RR camber. There are 60' in a degree. There is only 10' difference between RL and RR which is 0.1666 degrees difference. The measurements are in degrees and minutes, not decimal degrees. The min/max are factory recommended tolerances. If you alter the suspension (eg by lowering) then you take if out of these tolerances by miles. The fact that your car is standard? and is right on the edge of the tolerances indicates that there may be some long-term flex and/or wear that has contributed to the numbers (maybe even a small accident in the past). That said even though they are not perfect, they are still fine. The reason why they are still out after the alignment is that they are not adjustable on your car. The machine prints them as it can still measure them, and if they were a fair bit more out, they could indicate a serious problem. All they indicate is as said above - just on edge of tolerances and nothing really to worry about. On some vehicles these are adjustable. The only way to "fix" yours would be to replace all worn suspension components, realign, and then, if necessary, put it on a chassis straightener. Totally unnecessary in this case IMO Basically the only thing they can adjust is front toe. If I remember, I'll bring my latest alignment sheet in to work tomorrow and scan it for you to look at. I don't think you've been dicked, I think you've had a proper alignment, but there is some other issue there, and they could have been more professional and fixed your steering wheel. The place I go to missed it once too - I gave them a rev up and they always do it now. I get around 2 alignments a year. 1 usually due to changes I've made, and the other due to crap roads up here putting it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwolf 0 Report post Posted February 18, 2009 Cool. Thanks for that. I kinda feel like a d*ck now as if I had read it properly I would have noticed that. As I said I didn't really know what I was looking at. I'll probably ask about the steering wheel not being straight as it is a bit annoying. But then it could easily be caused by the brilliant quality of the manawatu roads too. Might go find a nice flat road somewhere and see if its just the curve of the road or if the steering wheel is out. I am beginning to think that I am being overly sensitive to the situation as I've never had a car like this and I'm kinda touchy about it being worked on. Thanks to everyone for their explanations of what happens with a wheel alignment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apex 693 Report post Posted February 18, 2009 Just on a side note, a car is meant to pull slightly to the left for safety reasons. You wouldn’t want it to pull right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sp8s 1 Report post Posted February 18, 2009 Just on a side note, a car is meant to pull slightly to the left for safety reasons. You wouldn’t want it to pull right.No car is made to pull any direction that's just the camber of the roads that do that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Creaver 55 Report post Posted February 19, 2009 No car is made to pull any direction that's just the camber of the roads that do that. I heard they were supposed to? Just incase you fell asleep at the wheel or something silly like that Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allan 295 Report post Posted February 20, 2009 Dark Wolf hi, who did the alignment for you in the first place?. Would recommend Emmersons in Levin or John Bates in Palmy Nth if you are unhappy with the handling of your ride. Having just gone through this myself it can be frustrating. The steering wheel should have been straight and level after the alignment or they should have told you why not. Some of the angles on the E39 models are fixed at the factory and are non adjustable Castor is one, Camber on the front, but can be adjusted on the rear, toe angle is adjustable front and rear "any devaitions are a result of worn or damaged suspension parts" from Bentley service manual. Allan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apex 693 Report post Posted February 20, 2009 Sorry OT: Can anyone recommend a really good place in Auckland?? I mean really good!! Don’t mind paying extra. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rjac001 0 Report post Posted February 20, 2009 Sorry OT: Can anyone recommend a really good place in Auckland?? I mean really good!! Don’t mind paying extra. Firestone in Mt Eden is where I recommend, they do all my tire repairs will not overcharge and Really Know what they are doing I just got a pair of Good Quality Yokohamas 205/55/15 80% new fitted and balanced for 190$ and a box of beers! Ask For Tom, Alignments are 50$ and money well spent Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr E34 11 Report post Posted February 20, 2009 Sorry OT: Can anyone recommend a really good place in Auckland?? I mean really good!! Don’t mind paying extra. For professional (a term many don't understand) wheel alignment go see the owner of 'The Shock Shop' Chris, the Grey Lynn branch..(Gt Nth Rd)..yellow & blue building. He covers all 3 sentences in your quote. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr E34 11 Report post Posted February 21, 2009 Good to know pedals, its not your line of work is it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dubyab 0 Report post Posted May 1, 2009 Had a wheel alignment done last week on my recently purchased 32O and similar problem. Found out my tyre pressures were too high. Reduced them back to what is stated on door strut and made a huge difference but still not perfect. Had a 323 before current one and no problems in the 5 years I had it so guess I will just have to live with it. When I mentioned it to the wheel alignment guy he said it was set up to veer slightly to right (better than left!!) for obvious reasons. I think my set up is real sensitive to the road camber as if I drive in right side of road it veers to right and if on level road stays pretty straight. Also had to pop back in and get them to adjust steering wheel as not quite straight and real frustrating. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bekker 7 Report post Posted May 1, 2009 I had a wheel alignment done yesterday and I'm not happy with it. Firstly, it doesn't feel right at all. At 100KPH I've noticed: I can't travel between telephone/power lines without the car veering left. I still have a slight wobble in the steering (which could be caused by the roads here in Levin). The steering wheel is sitting at about 350-355 degrees (remembering maths rotation is anti clockwise) Just as I went to post this I read the sheet and a few of the primary angles aren't within the specifications. I also have 4mm setback on the front of the car and an 8mm set back on the back. Now I don't want to go off half cocked but if my wheel alignment hasn't been done properly I'd like to know. Can any tyre guys / mechanics / knowledgeable people shed any light on this for me? Has my alignment been done properly or am I just being ridiculously paranoid about my baby? Tony's Tyre Service by any chance? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kerrynzl 3 Report post Posted May 1, 2009 The numbers are crap the guy could not align his d*ck at a stadium sized urinal let alone a toilet bowl. Haha! Spoken in a language that gets the message across The best wheel allignment guys are the guys that tinker with Formula Fords [ there was a guy in Newmarket years ago that ran an allignment shop that was a F/F racer ] Many flaws in a car can be "fudged" [ talk to the "Rally Car" boys about this ] All you need is someone with knowledge and pride in his workmanship. Remember "Time is Money" don't expect miracles for $25-00 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
