Laptop experiences

[JiB 0]

I've been doing a bit of research as my 3yo Dell is disintegrating thanks to the shithaus parts they use. (mouse button broken, coupla keys faulty, battery gone, etc)

For the first time ever I'm considering a Macbook (mainly cos they can run windows - word etc for uni), have handled the new aluminium 2.4Ghz one and I was very impressed by the build quality. Felt like I could drop kick it and it'd be fine.

I'm going to be using mine for:

-Uni work - which will include a Pro E starting next semester (was told mine won't run it)

-Lots of interwebs

-Word/spreadsheet processing

-Want to learn how to video edit and photoshopz (want to get back into photography, can't afford film, so have to learn digital)

-WiFi draft-n needed

-Bluetooth

-card reader

What I need:

-Least chassis flex....this is a pet hate

-Fast enough not to have a spaz when I'v got 20+ windows open (yes I use this many during research/trawling cos some of the databases)

-Nice touchpad

-hi-def screen

-DVI out

-Doesn't burn me/keep my cocoa warm if place in proximity (I kid you not, placing my drink next to the exhaust on current Dell keeps it warm)

-battery life needs to cover 2-3hours intensive use. WiFi + Bluetooth + interwebs/Pro E

-13"-15" nice enough to work on for prolonged periods and not a PITA to transport

Macbook Aluminium does all that, but it costs a couple of hundred bucks more than the equivalent dell 2.4Ghz - $2699.. (using money I saved for my daily to buy, might have to sell my neglected PS3 to make me feel better) I have trouble using Lenovo's - the ergonomics really doesn't suit me. I hate their mouse buttons. Haven't tried asus but they're expensive from what I gather.

My conscience is a force to be reckoned with and the recyclability and non-toxic nature of Macbook attracts me. But again, one can get a lot more computing for less also quite like the illuminated keyboard for lectures. But no card reader, and they're so wanky looking

Has anyone any experience/recommendations with laptops they'd like to share?

[martyyn 2]

I used to work for Dell, have used dozens of them and all my friends at work use them and we wouldnt buy anything else.

[my_e36 43]

I have had very good experience with IBM ThinkPad series (had 4 in the past 6 years as I upgrade), of course it's now Lenovo ThinkPad. A bit hard to find in main stream retail channel, but they now have online store where you can customise the spec a bit. Most of them also has keyboard light for use in dark room, so there.

[2002 1]

if you're wanting to run Pro E then you may want to add a Quadro graphics card to your spec, this just about limits you to Dell & Hp's "workstation" class laptops

[DRTDVL 0]

Running xp os via virtual machine is ok on a mac running pro/e in vitural pc is crap.

Would not recommend doing so.

You don't "need" a quadro card to rub pro/e and after compaitively testing the quadro fx3700 and a ati 4670 gaming card it wasn't that much slower except in the physics computations. Which unless your using the finate analsys tools all the time wouldn't make much of a differance.

Depending how much cash you want to blow the ultimate laptop for cad is the 19inch alienware one with solid state drives and sli graphics. But in saying all that, most laptops with a non-onboard graphics (I.e intel chipset) will run it ok. I've run it on my dual core 1.6 2gb ram intel intergraded graphics laptop and part design and small assemblies where ok... On dad's dual core 2 4gb ram nvidia graphics it ran a fair bit better.

Also don't get too hung up on 64bit also the only real benfit for Cadies is the access to more ram. The software is not designed to utlize it and can and does make it run sometimes slower (ptc reported upto 10%) when not working with large (think 1000+ parts) assemblies. Also dual and quad core is the same the only time he system will really utlize these is when it's doing a render. Go for a faster CPU speed over # of CPUs. We had tested a dual 2.8 quadcore with 8 gb of ram and a fx3700 graphics card (hp xw6600) and for the guys using Revit /Autocad / Mx / and a few others it was no noticable faster than thier old xw4600 (dual 2.63 4gb ram fx1700). The inventor and 3d studio max/max design guys found the benifit in the 64bit os for the ram. The other thing for the max design guys was the fAct max design will use upto 16cores to do it's renders on a single machine. Now we run a renderfarm (2 blade servers + other pcs (took a single pc 5 days to render the same project that the farm took 4 hours)) so it's bit pointless.

The benfit of more cores comes into play when the are lots of backgroun tasks runnning. The os can split the off to other CPUs. In windows (xp onwards) you can manually choose what can run on what CPU or stop things from running on difersnt CPUs ie Pro/e on CPU a and eveything is blocked from that CPU. If you have 20 windows open I would question as to why you need them all open. 3 hourswith Bluetooth, wireless, and a CPU intensive app is going to be pushing it, might aNt to look at upgrading the battery or getting the seconadary clipon battery.

Job = CAD Admin

Edited May 9, 2009 by DRTDVL

[JiB 0]

Thanks for the advice guys, I'm totally out of the loop with regards to computing these days (I blame my Arts degree ).

I used to work for Dell, have used dozens of them and all my friends at work use them and we wouldnt buy anything else.

Although my laptop has served me well, I don't really like how it has slowly disintegrated over the years. Although, they do represent very good value for money, so I haven't ruled them out as an option. The XPS13 series seems like very good value for money.

I have had very good experience with IBM ThinkPad series (had 4 in the past 6 years as I upgrade), of course it's now Lenovo ThinkPad. A bit hard to find in main stream retail channel, but they now have online store where you can customise the spec a bit. Most of them also has keyboard light for use in dark room, so there.

I have no doubt that IBM's are very good computers, but I didn't like using it when my Dell was down. They also command somewhat of a premium in price like Apple do.

if you're wanting to run Pro E then you may want to add a Quadro graphics card to your spec, this just about limits you to Dell & Hp's "workstation" class laptops

Do you mean the Dell studio stuff? It seems awfully pricey for my basic CAD use..

Running xp os via virtual machine is ok on a mac running pro/e in vitural pc is crap.

Job = CAD Admin

I should specify that the CAD I'm doing is extremely basic. ~30 parts per model. Would I still need $$$ worth of high spec laptop?

And XP/Vista runs native on the new Macbooks.

I have a huge number of windows open because my Politics degree requires me to trawl databases, and some are restricted (no saving, etc) so it's easier to leave the window open when doing comparative study. The laptop tends to struggle when the windows start containing media (TV election coverage, etc). But I'm nearly finished my BA so the main use will be for Engineering after this year.

[elmarco 56]

if you're wanting to run Pro E then you may want to add a Quadro graphics card to your spec, this just about limits you to Dell & Hp's "workstation" class laptops

Running xp os via virtual machine is ok on a mac running pro/e in vitural pc is crap.

Would not recommend doing so.

You don't "need" a quadro card to rub pro/e and after compaitively testing the quadro fx3700 and a ati 4670 gaming card it wasn't that much slower except in the physics computations. Which unless your using the finate analsys tools all the time wouldn't make much of a differance.

Depending how much cash you want to blow the ultimate laptop for cad is the 19inch alienware one with solid state drives and sli graphics. But in saying all that, most laptops with a non-onboard graphics (I.e intel chipset) will run it ok. I've run it on my dual core 1.6 2gb ram intel intergraded graphics laptop and part design and small assemblies where ok... On dad's dual core 2 4gb ram nvidia graphics it ran a fair bit better.

Also don't get too hung up on 64bit also the only real benfit for Cadies is the access to more ram. The software is not designed to utlize it and can and does make it run sometimes slower (ptc reported upto 10%) when not working with large (think 1000+ parts) assemblies. Also dual and quad core is the same the only time he system will really utlize these is when it's doing a render. Go for a faster CPU speed over # of CPUs. We had tested a dual 2.8 quadcore with 8 gb of ram and a fx3700 graphics card (hp xw6600) and for the guys using Revit /Autocad / Mx / and a few others it was no noticable faster than thier old xw4600 (dual 2.63 4gb ram fx1700). The inventor and 3d studio max/max design guys found the benifit in the 64bit os for the ram. The other thing for the max design guys was the fAct max design will use upto 16cores to do it's renders on a single machine. Now we run a renderfarm (2 blade servers + other pcs (took a single pc 5 days to render the same project that the farm took 4 hours)) so it's bit pointless.

The benfit of more cores comes into play when the are lots of backgroun tasks runnning. The os can split the off to other CPUs. In windows (xp onwards) you can manually choose what can run on what CPU or stop things from running on difersnt CPUs ie Pro/e on CPU a and eveything is blocked from that CPU. If you have 20 windows open I would question as to why you need them all open. 3 hourswith Bluetooth, wireless, and a CPU intensive app is going to be pushing it, might aNt to look at upgrading the battery or getting the seconadary clipon battery.

Job = CAD Admin

Both responses above are valid and sensible.

For reliability, I would suggest Toshiba or Apple. But throwing the CAD requirement in there pretty much limits you to HP and Dell if you want it to work in any reasonable timeframe. The video card will either kill you or keep your sanity in check - get a reasonable one (designed for CAD - not gaming). And a friends experience with running CAD (AutoCAD, Rhino and SolidWorks) on a Macbook pro with virtual XP doesn't work - pushed him damn close to the edge....

Stay away from 64 bit unless you have plenty of time to spend on keeping it running. The only real benefit is the O/S will allow you to use more RAM (as DRTDVL says), but to be fair, you have to be doing some heavy duty CAD to need that. If that's the case, you probably shouldn't be using a laptop... The downside to 64 bit is some shaky drivers, and some software won't run on it (then you get into using compatibility mode and a whole other kettle of fish).

In fact, even using AutoCAD on an HP laptop at work has provided more than it's share of challenges (especially when it was running Vista - XP seems to be more stable and less of a problem security wise).

Also - don't forget about the screen. Using CAD on a laptop screen with a laptop trackpad sucks monkey balls - a good high res 24 inch monitor is a few $$.

[DRTDVL 0]

I should specify that the CAD I'm doing is extremely basic. ~30 parts per model. Would I still need $$$ worth of high spec laptop?

Really depends as to what you want to/will be getting into as you progress... and how long you want the laptop for... I would also HIGHLY recommend waiting a few months for windows 7 to be released, we have been trialing it at work and it's much much better than vista. (we have windows 7 running functionally on an old compaq evo p4 with 512mb ram for a joke... it's not that much worse than the dc7800 with 2 gb of ram and vista...)

Both responses above are valid and sensible.

For reliability, I would suggest Toshiba or Apple. But throwing the CAD requirement in there pretty much limits you to HP and Dell if you want it to work in any reasonable timeframe. The video card will either kill you or keep your sanity in check - get a reasonable one (designed for CAD - not gaming). And a friends experience with running CAD (AutoCAD, Rhino and SolidWorks) on a Macbook pro with virtual XP doesn't work - pushed him damn close to the edge....

Stay away from 64 bit unless you have plenty of time to spend on keeping it running. The only real benefit is the O/S will allow you to use more RAM (as DRTDVL says), but to be fair, you have to be doing some heavy duty CAD to need that. If that's the case, you probably shouldn't be using a laptop... The downside to 64 bit is some shaky drivers, and some software won't run on it (then you get into using compatibility mode and a whole other kettle of fish).

In fact, even using AutoCAD on an HP laptop at work has provided more than it's share of challenges (especially when it was running Vista - XP seems to be more stable and less of a problem security wise).

Also - don't forget about the screen. Using CAD on a laptop screen with a laptop trackpad sucks monkey balls - a good high res 24 inch monitor is a few $$.

Screen res is REALLY important when you use autocad (stupid menus). We have AutoCAD, Revit, and lots of other cad packages running on laptops and running Vista with NO problems. The whole shakey drivers for 64bit isn't something we have run into at all. Depending on what products your using it should be ok.

When your only doing 30 part assemblies i can;t see the need for you to be running 64bit. Run 32bit with the /3gb switch (google if you don't know - can't be bothered typing) and that will help. Set your max and min page file to be the same and a min of 4095mb, commonly recommended to be 2x the physical amount of ram... i.e. 2gb installed = 4gb min, 4gb installed = 8gb min. Also things like matched pairs of ram will increase performance of the machine i.e. using 2 or 4 slots for ram... Although in saying that the new i7 chips like it in groups of 3...

I went through both the xps13 and the studio dell laptops for you and i personally would go with the studio... The graphics card is much better, the upgrade to the full hd 1900x1080 screen, alone would do it for me... plus there is a .3 of a kg differance between the two... came in at 2500 with office 2007 T&S ed. and being conservative with options...

If you have the 13inch screen you WILL need an external screen for extended periods of use. I'd recommend a min of a 17, and with 19's almost the same price i'd say get one of those.

The new gaming card are execptionally good, espically at the level he's looking at working at. People get very hung up on CAD/Workstation spec cards, unless your at the bleeding edge you will not notice the differance. We use them at work in our lower/mid-spec cad stations and they are fine! We've slashed a crap load from our expendacture just from that... We use the Ati 4670 (i think) and in every test bar the physics tests it was marginally slower than the fx3700... With the $1200+ differance in price it's not worth the money for the average user. If you actually read the specs/expect recommendations there is a lot of overkill in the cad world. Revit (BIM Software) recommends a 128mb graphics card! I've run pro/e on a geforce 4, fx1500, fx3400, ati 9500, ati 9700, fire 370 (i think), and a few others... the geforce and the 9500/9700 where not bad at all, very usable. No noticable differance in the fx1500/fx3400... (we have over 900 cadies at my work)

[JBimmer 0]

Mac's are pretty awesome, I had a imac for 3 months (bought second hand off trademe) but unfortunately it was out of warranty and the motherboard blew, which I was quoted 1500 to fix, for a motherboard.

I've had an alienware laptop for 3 or so years, still runs fine, has a scratch on the screen from my friends dog but its been dropped etc and everything still runs perfect, cost $3000 in 2006 and I haven't replaced it yet.

I loved mac but make damn sure if you want it for 3 years you get the 3 year warranty with it cause if anything breaks its extremely overpriced to get repaired.

[APT 188]

Have You thought of getting the Asus Pro 55 series?

I got one from harvey norman for $1799 about a month ago + i upgraded to the 4gb ram for about $100 more, i think.

Its specs are:

Intel Core2Duo T5800 2.00Ghz

4gb Ram

Ati Mobility Radeon HD 3470 512mb

250gb hard drive

15.4 " Screen

Wireless n

And a card reader !!

I Seriously consider this laptop should be cheaper now too

[2002 1]

(we have over 900 cadies at my work)

Who do you work for ?

[antony 0]

Cant be arsed reading all the techno speak above, but my laptop got stolen 2 months ago, just relpaced it yesterday with a Sony Vaio, was $1500 from Noel Leemings, and the best i found for the price.

[DRTDVL 0]

Who do you work for ?

Large multination engineering/project management company: My Work

[Jamez 2147483647]

Cant be arsed reading all the techno speak above, but my laptop got stolen 2 months ago, just replaced it yesterday with a Sony Vaio, was $1500 from Noel Leemings, and the best i found for the price.

I cant vouch for Sony VAIO, my gf has had so many problems with hers, ranging from the sound not working (very common problem) to it not starting at all. On the other hand I can vouch for Dell's as iv'e never had a problem with them, my D600 is still going strong and its ancient.

[steve R 0]

Just thought i would point out that JB Hifi has made a HUGE muck up in their latest mailer, and they are selling the 2.4 Mac Book Aluminium, which retails for $2899 for $2345, about $200 below cost.

Edited May 15, 2009 by Mobbin

[martyyn 2]

Good luck if it is a genuine error. Just because its on a flyer doesnt mean they have to sell it at that price.

[steve R 0]

They are selling it at that price, one of my mates is a product manager for JB, i was in there yesterday picking up a TV and Mac myself and he told me about it and said that its going untill the end of next month. They are advertising it at that price in store aswell.

[shaneg 0]

Asus all the way..

The only difference really these days between lappies are the external build quality, then the small changes that the manufacturer adds on, my asus has a light sensor that controls the brightness accordingly, plus some extra windows features..

All the internals are basically similar these days, intel vs amd etc, nvidia vs ati, and the list goes on, i find dell a bit cheaply made personally, my brother just bought one..

Now is a great time to be buying them, i would suggest buy somewhere such as d*ck smith where you can haggle a bargain, such as upgrades or warranties.

Bought a 80gig ps3 recently, last one in the store and managed to get a $150 game and an extended warranty free only cost me $700 all up.

Also bought a new camera, somewhere else, new release samsung 12.2 megapixel, was $499 got a free 2gig mp3 player and half priced my extended warranty so if i "accidentally drop it", i get a new one

And with my laptop got a free shoulder bag which isnt too shabby either..

I always act real keen to buy, just when they go to take it to the counter, i drop the "actually im sure this one is $100 cheaper at harvey norman" or "what deal can you do me" it never fails

My old man managed to get $1800 dropped of his plasma this way, it was $8999

[shaneg 0]

I also would recommend using Kubuntu or Ubuntu Kubuntu.org as an Operating System, its Linux/Debian based its a open source free program you can download, its 600mb i think, or jot your details down and they send you a cd from the u.s for free..

Mac's are linux based also thats why they run better than windows, but it is closed source and you pay the premium dollar, so Steve Jobs stays on the rich list..

This version is really close to vista, so people can migrate with out too much trouble, and also forget about viruses and annoying malware and spyware crap as there arent any viruses, and if you like the mac look, you can change your desktop so it looks exactly like it, complete with the cool system tray at the bottom.. or pretty much change it to look how you want, google for screenshots and you will see no two shots are the same..

I dual-boot, so if i need to go to vista i can, but havent for atleast 4 months, if you are a bit savvy on pcs i recommend doing it.

Honestly i wouldnt go back to Windows, this is the way of the future, and most servers are linux based for a reason, reliability, you can run a server for 3-4 years without having to reboot.

also read this Ubuntu and Mark Shuttleworth

Multimillionaire who funds the Ubuntu project, Google now use Ubuntu in all their computers, i also worked for Larry Page towards the end of last year while he was staying in Queenstown..

p.s if anyone is really serious about trying it, and doesnt want to waste their broadband i can send you a cd copy..

Edited May 17, 2009 by shaneg