How low my car is

[Shady 0]

Heres what mine looks like with NO passengers.

17s on driverside & 14s on passengerside. I need to take it for a drive to settle it all again as I just jacked it up to put the 17s on - done this just 10mins ago (I dont use the 17s cos the tyres are bald) so after a small drive, it will all drop probably another half inch on all corners. Cant drive atm cos my headlights have been removed to do the "smoked" mod.

The 17's

About half inch from arch

About 1 & half inch from arch

The 14's

About half inch from arch

About 1 & half inch from arch

So the bigger rim doesnt make much difference in height.

QUESTION:- I think I may get shorter shocks? Would that make it sit any lower? Or what could I do rather than replacing the springs, to make it lower...if any other way?

The Sump is 105mm approx off the ground, it just cleared the measuring block when I went for my Pinky WOF, so I understand I will need to cert the height, most probably, if I go Lower. That doesnt worry me, will probably need to cert a few other things I am thinking of doing

With at least 2 people in the back, the 14s are tucked, but not sure about the 17s cos I dont use them as stated above...

Any comments or opinions or answers to my Questions are welcome. But please, nothing stupid.

(STARTED THIS THREAD COS I DIDNT WANNA THREAD JACK "CHRIS00"s THREAD)

[Forrest 35]

The total diameter of the tyre + wheel on the 17's and the tyre + wheel on the 14's are probably quite similar, so you won't see much difference in drop between the sets of wheel. If you wanted to go lower on the bottle caps, just buy a lower profile tyre.

IMO save your money for things that matter or save up for a better car, as I think KSMYRS has in his sig " you can mod a sh*t car but your still left with a fast, sh*t car" or something along those lines, I learn't this the hard way. My 2c.

Edited September 13, 2009 by Forrest

[Shady 0]

Yeah i know. But I've grown to love this POS (not love, but close) - once you start doing sh-t you cant stop, thats how a lot of Quality cars are built today (when the Modifing Bug Bites!?) And have a few big plans for it once I sell my Inspire. Am looking at a repower & full body respray etc...pretty much make this a ground up rebuild. I will start a project thread, WHEN I start the rebuild (probably early next year).

Anybody got any clue as to how much a set of Adjustables would cost?

Edited September 13, 2009 by Shady

[JiB 0]

Anybody got any clue as to how much a set of Adjustables would cost?

No offence....but how long is a piece of string? USD17,000 per shock? Some sweet Motons for that price.

I assume you mean - how much so you can make the car look lower? Try some D2's - $1200 or so. They will very probably be extremely bouncy and poo on NZ roads. But it'll look mean as ow.

$2500 will get you a decent GC setup - NZD is getting strong-ish.

And because yours is a road car, you'd want to fix the toe and camber in the rear - more $$$.

[Shady 0]

No offence taken. Guess I'll stick to springs for now then would rather spend that kinda cash on the performance side of things.

[mark247 39]

Shortening shocks wont lower it, but it does make it so you can put lower springs in and they stay captive.

[Nobimmer 694]

Someone is selling some D2's in FS thread.

[l0w320 0]

shortening your shocks will make your car a little bit lower because it will help compress the springs more

[SIR E30 68]

No offence taken. Guess I'll stick to springs for now then would rather spend that kinda cash on the performance side of things.

You need to spend money on suspension/brakes if you are going to do performance mods.

shortening your shocks will make your car a little bit lower because it will help compress the springs more

Incorrect. Shortened shocks dont compress the spring more than the weight of the car already does.

[bravo 35]

Save your money. Do it once. Do it properly.

You say you want to spend money on performance rather than handling. Total n00b mistake. The best money I spent on my car was the suspension, and I wish I'd spent more.

At a bare minimum you want some springs with a decent rate, some matched shocks, and some urethane. Next step up would be some uprated sway bars (do you have the factory sway bars? If not, this would be a very cheap upgrade), and to do it properly some coil overs like what Incary has done.

This will make your car better to drive, more engaging, faster on the corners, and if you do ever make it go faster at least it will handle well.

Performance mods on crap suspension = crap car or in the ditch upside down.

Shortened shocks don't make any difference to ride height - they are used to make shorter springs captive.

I can't believe that you are at 105 mm. I'm at around 110 and my car looks much lower on my 17's I have about 10-15mm guard gap at the front, and the rears are tucked.

The 14's look heaps better IMO. Looks very roller-skatish on the 17's at that height.

BTW wheel size won't make any difference to ride height if you have the correct size tyres.

[Shady 0]

Yeah I understand I need to upgrade suspension when I do Performance stuff, but would prefer to do the engine before forking out that much out for suspension.

[bravo 35]

Like I said - n00b mistake. A well-handling car allows you to have more fun until you can do the engine mods.

You can do suspension mods without changing performance, but not the other way around.

My old 320 was stock when I bought it. Upgraded the suspension and it was like I'd bought a whole new car.

[Shady 0]

Save your money. Do it once. Do it properly.

You say you want to spend money on performance rather than handling. Total n00b mistake. The best money I spent on my car was the suspension, and I wish I'd spent more.

At a bare minimum you want some springs with a decent rate, some matched shocks, and some urethane. Next step up would be some uprated sway bars (do you have the factory sway bars? If not, this would be a very cheap upgrade), and to do it properly some coil overs like what Incary has done.

This will make your car better to drive, more engaging, faster on the corners, and if you do ever make it go faster at least it will handle well.

Performance mods on crap suspension = crap car or in the ditch upside down.

Shortened shocks don't make any difference to ride height - they are used to make shorter springs captive.

I can't believe that you are at 105 mm. I'm at around 110 and my car looks much lower on my 17's I have about 10-15mm guard gap at the front, and the rears are tucked.

The 14's look heaps better IMO. Looks very roller-skatish on the 17's at that height.

BTW wheel size won't make any difference to ride height if you have the correct size tyres.

You beat me lol

Yes I know with the sump, my 100mm block only just fits under it...I think it may be because of my engine mount shock? Its a bit broken haha going to buy one asap once $ allows. Would that affect it, which I suppose it would.

As for suspension, I wouldnt want to upgrade it until I know I am finished with the engine, as with the extra weight, I wouldnt wanna be having the front end on the ground cos I done the suspension first & the front now weighs more etc etc...unless that is NOT factor?

And yes Im a n00b & I admit it...only learn one way

edit, spelling

Edited September 13, 2009 by Shady

[mark247 39]

Yeah I understand I need to upgrade suspension when I do Performance stuff, but would prefer to do the engine before forking out that much out for suspension.

If you put a bigger engine in your front end will drop anyway due to the weight, if you have springs for a 318. Look at my sig, my car is on the right, it has a 6cylinder in it and it has shortened munroe shocks with what I think are 318i james springs in the front. Compare it to SIR E30's car on the left, it's low...

[mark247 39]

Yes I know with the sump, my 100mm block only just fits under it...I think it may be because of my engine mount shock? Its a bit broken haha going to buy one asap once $ allows. Would that affect it, which I suppose it would.

I think they measure the 100mm off the lowest structual part of the car, the sump isn't structual.

My car is too low, its about 90mm on the chassis. With the 14inch weaves though it doesn't seem that low so I dont think they will pick up on it if they dont have trouble getting it on a hoist when I go for a warrent. I hardly ever bottom out on anything either because the suspension is rather stiff.

Edited September 13, 2009 by Mark247

[Shady 0]

My sump is low. Thats why I got pinkyed cos the cop made me go to VTNZ (they were doing a taxi strike, so cop took it to his advantage) and when they went to drive it over the block the sump was touching so the jacked it up & found my cut springs lol. Put these new springs in, went to Hamilton WOF Centre and it passed, but the sump was JUST over 100mm before I took it in.

I smashed my sump (you saw the mess I made lol) so I try very hard to avoid gas stations with massive raised tank pump things and other crap like that. Not a good experience lol

[mark247 39]

My sump is low. Thats why I got pinkyed cos the cop made me go to VTNZ (they were doing a taxi strike, so cop took it to his advantage) and when they went to drive it over the block the sump was touching so the jacked it up & found my cut springs lol. Put these new springs in, went to Hamilton WOF Centre and it passed, but the sump was JUST over 100mm before I took it in.

I smashed my sump (you saw the mess I made lol) so I try very hard to avoid gas stations with massive raised tank pump things and other crap like that. Not a good experience lol

I understand. I'm just saying for WOF checks the 100mm isn't measured off the sump.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong

[bravo 35]

You're right, Mark.

100mm to any structural part of the vehicle or any steering or suspension component.

Shady - the fact the you are willing to run cut springs says alot. This is ridiculously dangerous - up there with drink driving.

Low does not necessarily mean it handles well.

[Shady 0]

I dont have the cuts in it now...lesson learnt dont worry! I regret it...

I smashed my sump with the lowered springs AFTER I passed my Pinky WOF. I started a thread about it ages ago.

And I know, low doesnt mean great handling, but being lower than it was when I got it, it does feel WAY better when cornering. I dont want it sitting on the ground though...I do want to be able to go up n down driveways

[mark247 39]

You're right, Mark.

100mm to any structural part of the vehicle or any steering or suspension component.

Shady - the fact the you are willing to run cut springs says alot. This is ridiculously dangerous - up there with drink driving.

Low does not necessarily mean it handles well.

Quick question.

I realise cutting the rear is dangerous due to how the coils get smaller at the top and bottom and because with a slight bump the springs could just fall out. But what about the fronts? Cutting half a coil off or so just to get a bit of drop, not using heat to do it, and assuming the springs are still entirely captive, what harm could it do? I realise it is by no means going to make the car handle any better, but what negitive effects could it have?

[Shady 0]

Im interested too know that also.

But when I cut my rears, the only way they fell out or could, is if I jacked it up & pulled at the spring. I cut a good 3/4 coils off it...pretty much half of it left.

[bravo 35]

Because shortening the springs alters the spring rate thus affecting your handling. Also, the spring will be subjected to greater loads and may fail. Plus the captivity issue.

A google search may provide you with the hows and whys if you are keen enough to find out more.

[bmw_guy 0]

will it pass WOF, if cuts are captive?

[|ncary 0]

And I know, low doesnt mean great handling, but being lower than it was when I got it, it does feel WAY better when cornering.

A beautiful illusion created by lowering a car to the ground.

Lowering the centre of gravity certainly helps a car turn, mainly by reducing weight transfer. But in a E30, especially, it completely ruins the geometry and any benefit you get from lowering it is gone due to the rear tires only half sitting on the road, and getting no camber gain on the front wheels when the suspension compresses during cornering, not to mention the roll centres being in the ground making the car actually roll more when lowered lots, that's the biggest issue really.

It may feel great hitting up a smooth right turn at a traffic light, but throw a bump into the mix and it'll be a loose machine.

But hey, a dumped car can be made to look really good, but it's only useful for boring ass city driving. If you want to do it like a pro you could modify all the suspension pick up points on the car to be 3 inches higher and still have great geometry and ultra lownessness.

Read Gustave for a nice technical explaination

[JiB 0]

Gustave's page is pretty cool, but he does have a roundabout way of saying roll couple should be minimized (roll centre and CG as close as possible).

Also illustrates have flawed MacPherson systems are. :/