Re Mapping Factory ECU

[Gus 5]

possible? and if so know anyone that can do it? may be cheaper than a $3g autronic...

[petone 0]

Soory i can't answer the question, but i have another one along the same lines. Whats the deal on piggy-back ecu's? I know thats what the tuners are using for XR6T as they haven't managed to crack the factory code yet.

[Grant 4]

Both Gus and I were wondering...Does anyone know if Gizzmo Electronics does custom ECU remapping for anyone, or just for the makes and models of cars they have listed on their website.

BTW their site is http://www.gizzmoelectronics.com/

Cheers

[bimmer boy 21]

my brother got a gizzmo chip i will ask him cos he got one done

[bmwsparkle 3]

anyone found out any more on this, theres also superchips.co.nz, I'm trying to get in contact with him atm.

[Carl 3]

Soory i can't answer the question, but i have another one along the same lines. Whats the deal on piggy-back ecu's? I know thats what the tuners are using for XR6T as they haven't managed to crack the factory code yet.

What do you want to know as i've done some investigations into a couple of piggy back chips.

[bmwsparkle 3]

are there any universal ones/ones made for the m30 around carl?

From what ive found, they are usually for specific models, and of course not for our cars.

[kiwi535 538]

Tried the UK Sparkle?From what I have heard,our E28 would have been the same as theirs,mostly because of the leaded petrol widely available there,only choice here.I think the early E34s were also the same,but after that i think we were virtually the only leaded e34 market

[Carl 3]

are there any universal ones/ones made for the m30 around carl?

From what ive found, they are usually for specific models, and of course not for our cars.

Mike was talking about piggy-back ecu's like the unichip or mapecu, both of which can be simply placed over the top of the existing motronic units and allow you to ditch the AFM, both will work perfectly fine on the M30.

E: $1580 for the unichip installed and tuned, haven't found a local mapecu installer yet.

Edited April 25, 2006 by Carl

[325GRANT 0]

why dont you guys just go to a LINK???

[Guest Andrew]

why dont you guys just go to a LINK???

Exactly

[bmwsparkle 3]

why dont you guys just go to a LINK???

because if i can get similar results for half the price then ill go for that. Im not that keen on spending $2500 on a link. Thats quarter of my house deposit, I've spent enough money on my car as is.

Ive been in contact with the guy @ superchips this morning, he comes to your house to install it, wherever you are in the country. Will customise the chip how you want it. Will re-tune it again for free if need be. $950 inc.

[Carl 3]

LINK for a daily driver is just not practical, I like my electrics, would be too much hassle to strip everything out.

Edited April 26, 2006 by Carl

[Guest Andrew]

LINK for a daily driver is just not practical, I like my electrics, would be too much hassle to strip everything out.

What electrics do you lose?

You gain flatshifting other goodies etc.

[kerrynzl 3]

You can Reprogram your existing computer for about US$370 The Yanks [seppo's] call this "Shark Injector", Works Very Good for motorsports where you have to use standard ECU's & chips [i'm not suggesting cheating, just innovation] The Guru who makes this Software is Jim Conforti, just about every Bimmer web site in the States flogs his software. The other way to go is a Dinan Chip which has to be installed in the ECU. Apart from Computer controlled wastegates,which make real good gains,You are better off spending your money on booze [Your $$$ ends up in the same place]

Unless the chip lifts the rev limit [and you are prepared to scream the engine] all the chip does is alter the Advance Curve,[most engines are fully advanced by 3200rpm]and the fuel mixture [like an oxyacetelene torch, too rich or too lean reduces heat] & the airflow meter and ECU aleady control this.

The Real gains are made by getting more air through the engine[better volumetric eficiency and more rpm]

$2500 for a computor ???, that'll go a long way on extractors,big bore,camshaft,K&N,competition valve job etc[or a bigger engine??]

[bmwsparkle 3]

headers i need first, yes.

But, I do need to change my air fuel mixture in places, esp in the obvious lean spots, I cant do this with motronics, also the afm is such a drag, would love to run map sensor.

[gmccormack 0]

Gus, would you consider fitting a Megasquirt ECU?? Only $260 USD and much more flexable than just chipping and gets rid of the AFM. It is maybe not as advanced as an Autronic or Motec but seems to be at least on a par with the second tier aftermarket systems like Wolf, Microtech and Link.

[No name user 379]

mapecu.co.nz or performance motor research.co.nz

[Ghost 0]

$2500 is a lot for your average performance vehicle. However, 1k should buy you a piggy back system which is hands down the single best performace modification you can buy your car and should come before extractors and camshafts etc.

The piggyback removes the restrictive AFM (requiring some basic fabrication to make a straight-through intake pipe) and allows you to tune your engine. It works by:

"calculating readings from temperature, manifold pressure, and the position of the throttle to spit out a signal that simulates what the AFM would normally meter, eliminating the need for a restrictive form of measuring incoming air. -ALSO, the Alpha N can be reprogrammed and tuned to your specific engine whether stock or modified for best power output and efficiency."

All the guys on s14.net report extremely positive results from installing this type of software, to summarise, these are the main benefits:

* Marketly improved throttle response - the car feels 'alive' and requires minimal input.

* You still use your factory chip or can upgrade or reburn as the chip still controls the fueling.

* Significant performance gains. By removing the 'barn-door' style AFM, you are effectively removing a large intake tract flow impediment, which leads to much improved volumetric intake and improved flow velocity = Very noticable rwhp gains. Ie, the 'typical gain' for a stock s14 is expected to around 15rwhp and at least 10lbs torque, but most signifcantly the torque is ACROSS THE ENTIRE RPM RANGE. No other modification comes closs to these gains (other than a full stand alone system).

If you owned a 1500kg 200rwhp car and installed a piggyback system netting 10% wrhp gains (which is often pesimistic) giving 220rwhp, this is the equivalent of removing 154kg from the car!

200rwhp/1.5ton = 133hp/ton

220/133= 1.654ton

1654-1500kg = 154kg

Piggy systems are not all that common, not as a initial performance modification anyway and they should be.

However, there are few reasons why:

* Not all PiggyBack systems are all that intuitive to play with and tune, so research it thoroughly!

* PiggyBack systems are not a 'plug-n-play' modification. They work by you fine tuning maps for certain points on the RPM range. So basically instead of the EMS getting a signal from the AFM which tells it how much air is coming in, which it then adjusts the fueling, a PG system registers the angle of the throttle and 'looks up' a map that is stored away for this throttle position and loading. So, YOU have to create these maps, which means some Dyno time, or self tuning using a Wide-Band Lambda sensor and a lap top (although this requires some knowledge of the system, and copilot).

So, you MUST tune a PG system. And you MUST retune the maps whenever you change anything related to the airflow on your car.

New cams? New exhaust manifold? New ITB's? = RE-tune.

Personally I dont see this retune as an issue, because when you think about, it makes complete sense to remap when you make a change to the engine to maximise the benefits.

Ie, you can expect more gains for EVERY airflow modification you make to your engine with a PG system versus a stock EMS.

If for example a new trick header gained 5rwhp, you can expect more if you tune it properly with a PG system.

So, to summarise:

Chip: Alters fueling alone, small gains but still best 'bang-for-buck' as they are cheap.

PiggyBack System: Improves air intake and moderates AFR using maps you tune. Does not change the fueling- so, buy a new chip too! Very good gains across the entire rev range and excellent throttle response.

Full Stand Alone EMS (is Motec) - does all this and more (starts getting complicated with sequential injection etc etc) but costs $$$ and requires more $$$ for tuning or quite good tuning knowledge.

I know a few of you will have worked with these systems before so add your input (conrad and co). PG systems/Alpha-N were used on the e30 M3 BTCC and DTM cars, so BMW has an extensive history using it, no reason why we shouldnt make the most of it too.

On that note, I am ordering my MAXX Alpha-N soonish for the M3 and will post dyno results in 6 months time (too busy atm). You can use it on ANY car that implements a restrictive AFM and expect very good gains.

A little OT sorry!

Cheers

Ash

Edited May 13, 2006 by Ghost

[Damo 23]

$2500 is a lot for your average performance vehicle. However, 1k should buy you a piggy back system which is hands down the single best performace modification you can buy your car and should come before extractors and camshafts etc.

I may be a little biased seeing as I am in the dyno testing stages of developing my own aftermarket ECU but..... I STRONGLY suggest you save your pennies and get a standalone system if you think you can afford a piggyback system.

To be honest with you, a piggyback system is what gets sold to peope who are intimated by the idea of a standalone unit. It is dangerous to say the least to rely on a unit that modifies normally correct signals if you want maximum power out of your engine.

And im not just saying that to sell my ECU because I dont have enough of them to sell publicly yet

Any other questions?

[pug'n 0]

What electrics do you lose?

You gain flatshifting other goodies etc.

yuh

I'm fully over bosch's sh*t rendition. I'd rather carbs

esp on the pug, f**k they have a whack cold start/runing idea. christ

Edited May 18, 2006 by pug'n

[mops 4]

I run megasquirt 2. another dude buying components locally put his one together for NZ$300.... hard to beat the price...

it does all you need in an m20 engine....

if you want to spend few hundys more and get more features/etc i'd go with VEMS - this is teh shiz.... fraction of a price of a motec and will handle all the latest generation engines. I'm sorry, I'm just DIY like that.... like to do stuff myself instead of giving it to other ppl, paying lotsa $$$ and hoping for the best.

performance/throttle response/economy/cold start and run/etc is a matter of tune.

Tuning an ECU is not a 'finite' task, as in you cant ever say an ECU is 100% tuned.

A tuner might do a good or average or bad job. If you know how to tune you understand how powerfull and customizable EFI is.... Tuning is a matter of feel... so if you know/can do it then you can have whatever you want....

[mops 4]

oh, and btw... motronic can be tuned, but you need special software (i got a collection of software to do that) and EPROM reader/writer (no idea how that works/where to get it, etc).

[Guest Andrew]

Would be good to see any write-up you could do on installing megasquirt mops - would be handy for a lot of people.

[Carl 3]

oh, and btw... motronic can be tuned, but you need special software (i got a collection of software to do that) and EPROM reader/writer (no idea how that works/where to get it, etc).

I know someone with an EPROM reader/writer although his reliability is a little suspect

E: Oh, and you can hire an eprom reader/writer but last time I checked it costed $250 a day!!!

Edited May 25, 2006 by Carl