M20 Clutch/Flywheel into e36 running gear

[bmpower 3]

Car is an e36 with m52b25 and 5-speed manual.

1/ Can i use an e30 m20 flywheel and clutch between with e36 5-speed and m52b25?

2/ What are the pro's and if any cons of doing this?

3/ Also whilst replacing these should i be doing/replacing anything else at the same time?

I have spoken with Gavin (Euro-italian) and one idea was to have an m20 flywheel made from billet instead of an oem style cast one, is this the way to go?

I have very limited knowledge as far as this subject goes so any help would be apprieciated!

Thanks in advance.

Kerry.

[melowpuf 19]

I have recently done this conversion on an M50B25, The original dual-mass flywheel needed replacing so I replaced it with an m20 clutch and flywheel. The m20 starter motor also has to be used. The car was originally an Auto so a small amount of the "torque converter bolt access" had to be ground off to accomodate the M20 flywheel.

The pro's for me were I could get rid of the dual-mass (really heavy) and replace it with a heavy M20 clutch, and also I had spare m20 bits lying around to replace it with.

As for replacing things while you are in there.. you could replace your rear crank seal while you are in there, along with your thrust bearing, and pilot bearing, the guibo, gearbox mounts, etc etc etc. depends on who is doing it and what tools you have acess to.

[bmpower 3]

Probably should have add that the e36 is currently an auto and is about to be converted to manual - so being a fan of preventative maintainence is why i am looking at a new clutch/flywheel and whatever else may/could need doing at the same time!

Do it once, do it right!

Edited January 12, 2010 by bmpower

[antil33t 90]

I have an M20 Flywheel if you're after one.. the clutch I have whilst isn't worn one of the springs has popped out... Wouldn't use it tbh.

I don't know much about flywheels though.

[bmpower 3]

I have an M20 Flywheel if you're after one.. the clutch I have whilst isn't worn one of the springs has popped out... Wouldn't use it tbh.

I don't know much about flywheels though.

Thanks for the offer! The reason i am asking about all this is because i am going for new items and there is a reasonable cost difference between e30 & e36 clucth/flywheels so don't want to go with the wrong option!!

[BM WORLD 1258]

i run a m20 flywheel in my e36 328i with a m20 starter , manage to get a 7.2kg flywheel and had a m20 clutch beefed up to handle the extra torque etc .

seams to be ok , spools up real quick .

only thing is your gearbox may rattle a little bit if the revs are to low at idle , but nothing to worry about . both cars did it a little bit

also had a similer unit on my last e36 325i with standard m20 clutch , worked alright for the 40,000km i had the car .

[*Glenn* 854]

^^^ all the above.... except... the rear main seal. These very rarely give problems unlike E30's. They cannot be done properly without taking the sump off and the rear main seal housing. After you remove the flywheel have a look to see if it has been leaking.. if not...leave it alone

[pureboiracer 0]

yeah you shouldnt have any problem running the m20 flywheel and clutch. u will have to use the m20 starter though. .

That car will be a heap better when its manual.

Edited January 12, 2010 by sydwayz e30

[bmpower 3]

i run a m20 flywheel in my e36 328i with a m20 starter , manage to get a 7.2kg flywheel and had a m20 clutch beefed up to handle the extra torque etc .

seams to be ok , spools up real quick .

only thing is your gearbox may rattle a little bit if the revs are to low at idle , but nothing to worry about . both cars did it a little bit

also had a similer unit on my last e36 325i with standard m20 clutch , worked alright for the 40,000km i had the car .

How much did you have the clutch beefed up? Is this necessary? How much $$ to do this?

[pureboiracer 0]

How much did you have the clutch beefed up? Is this necessary? How much $$ to do this?

Go see greg at mp auto parts in upper hutt. he did my racecar one and alans one.

Depending on what you get its between 300 to 500 if you give him a clutch to do it with.

I would reccommend a organic clutch lining and maby beefing your pressure plate up an extra 300lb i think they are 1500lb iirc

[BM WORLD 1258]

How much did you have the clutch beefed up? Is this necessary? How much $$ to do this?

depends which flywheel you use , but if you get one from say a 320i or 325i , then std 325i clutch will do , about $300-350 or get the pressure plate beefed up a little costs about $400-450 or so.

for some stage reason the flywheel i ended up with has a smaller clutch surface area and std m20 clutch kit wouldn't bolt up , and he found some odd clutch kit from a 1.6l 1.8l models and he just put more clamp pressure into the pressure plate . seams to work fine

[bmpower 3]

depends which flywheel you use , but if you get one from say a 320i or 325i , then std 325i clutch will do , about $300-350 or get the pressure plate beefed up a little costs about $400-450 or so.

for some stage reason the flywheel i ended up with has a smaller clutch surface area and std m20 clutch kit wouldn't bolt up , and he found some odd clutch kit from a 1.6l 1.8l models and he just put more clamp pressure into the pressure plate . seams to work fine

So if i go with a standard e30 325i clutch and flywheel i should be fine then ie. no need to beef up the e30 325i clutch for the e36?

[westy 614]

The std e30 325 clutch assembly isn't enough to hold an e36 328, must be borderline on an e36 325.

You also need a throwout bearing from a 78-83(e21 ???). It's 5mm taller than the e30/36 unit.

Match the spigot bearing to whatever g'box you're using.

The e30 flywheel either needs shaving on the engine side or some people grind some clearance off the sumpbolt castings on the sump.

It is possible to use the e36 starter but you have to install the correct e30 pinion into it and there is some shagging around to do it.

[*Glenn* 854]

Or you can use the E36 M44 flywheel & clutch ... less shagging round

Edited January 12, 2010 by *Glenn*

[BM WORLD 1258]

The std e30 325 clutch assembly isn't enough to hold an e36 328, must be borderline on an e36 325.

You also need a throwout bearing from a 78-83(e21 ???). It's 5mm taller than the e30/36 unit.

Match the spigot bearing to whatever g'box you're using.

The e30 flywheel either needs shaving on the engine side or some people grind some clearance off the sumpbolt castings on the sump.

It is possible to use the e36 starter but you have to install the correct e30 pinion into it and there is some shagging around to do it.

it depends which m20 flywheel you get wether you have to machine some of the back face off , the later m20 325i 525i use a heavier 10kg or so flywheel and they will need maching so it doesn't fowl on the sump .

but the early m20 flywheels are lighter 6.2kg 7.5kg 8.5kg 10.75kg etc depending on which engine and year it came from .

check the weights in the parts list

http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E28/Seda..._mass_flywheel/

http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E28/Seda..._mass_flywheel/

http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E12/Seda...ngine/flywheel/

http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E21/Seda..._mass_flywheel/

http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E30/2-do..._mass_flywheel/

http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E30/2-do..._mass_flywheel/

then the last ones and the eta models had the very heavy dual mass unit 12.5kg

http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E28/Seda..._mass_flywheel/

the 325i clutch is used on my e36 325i with a chipped ecu , was just good enough , i never realy gave it a hard time but it lasted about 40,000km i had the car and was a used clutch to start with . i think it was starting to get a bit weak towards the end of the time i had it .

[BM WORLD 1258]

Or you can use the E36 M44 flywheel & clutch ... less shagging round

most later m42 m43 m44 engines seem to use the dual mass 12.25kg flywheel . but some early m40 m42 types with out air conditioning etc use a 9.9kg single mass

[bmpower 3]

Ok so a change of plan has come - after reading posts here etc. Rather than muck around with m20 gear i have decided to go with an e36 clutch! I get hold of a brand new e36 325i Quinton Hazell clutch for $376+gst which i think is acceptable?

So now 3 questions:

1/ Has anyone had experiance with this brand of clutch? It is a euro brand and i'm told it's pretty good but has anyone had first hand experiance?

2/ Is it worth uprating the new clutch? I'm not soft on cars, but not mad either - i just don't want it to need replacement in my ownership! There is a possibility it could see the track, but it won't be frequent.

2/ Flywheel..... Do i just stick with the second hand unit i have? Do i get a new one made? Do i get this one lightened/balanced etc? Ideas/thoughts? Will an M44 etc bolt striaght up with no mods, or starter mods? I'm not loaded, so don't want to spend fortunes but i also want it done right...

Thanks again in advance for all the help given! It really does help, and the sooner i sort out my clutch/flywheel problems the sooner the car will be back in my hands as a manual!!

Edited January 12, 2010 by bmpower

[BM WORLD 1258]

if you go for the e36 325i flywheel it will be a dual mass unit and the rubber centre part might be stuffed .

if you make a new one then make a single mass one with a clutch to suit (maybe a modified m20 325i clutch)

m44 , m43 ,m42 will bolt straight up but most of those are also dual mass and the clutch is a little smaller in diameter. and will need to beefed up a little if you think you might give it a hard time.

so realy m20 flywheel and starter is a easy option .

up to you .

i have a few options availible

e36 97 328i dual mass with clutch

e36 95 325i dual mass with clutch

e36 95 m43 dual mass with clutch

e34 520i m20 single mass with clutch

also still in the car a 95 316ti a complete kit with single mass flywheel

also a complete e36 conversion kit with what ever flywheel you want

[bmpower 3]

Ok if i use the new e36 325i clutch (which seems the best option), will an m20 flywheel bolt up with no mods at all bar needing an m20 starter? Remember that this car is currently auto if that makes any difference to anything?

[BM WORLD 1258]

Ok if i use the new e36 325i clutch (which seems the best option), will an m20 flywheel bolt up with no mods at all bar needing an m20 starter? Remember that this car is currently auto if that makes any difference to anything?

no the e36 325i clutch will most likely be for a dual mass flywheel and wont work for a single mass flywheel.

the top pressure plate covers on the duall mass set up are thinner and there are no springs on the clutch disc .

where as the single mass pressure plate is normally taller and the clutch disc has springs in it .

[*Glenn* 854]

The kit I got of Ray was E36 318 M44 (maybe M42) single mass but I gave it to you Brent and then ended up using it on a customers car because I went UUC & M3/M5 config on mine. If you use the 318 single mass you also need to use the deeper release bearing as Tony said.

Personally I'd go

M42/44 single mass

Deeper realease bearing

Get the new pressure plate and get a new diaphram fitted for a higher clamp pressure by a clutch rebuilder or get them to supply one with a higher clamp pressure. Theres nothing wrong with Quinten Hazel products either

Edited January 12, 2010 by *Glenn*

[bmpower 3]

Ahh i see... Well with that in mind then the only option is to stick with an e36 dual-mass flywheel.

So the only question is then do i do i keep the original used one as it is? Or; Can the dual mass ones be lightened/balanced?

[BM WORLD 1258]

Ahh i see... Well with that in mind then the only option is to stick with an e36 dual-mass flywheel.

So the only question is then do i do i keep the original used one as it is? Or; Can the dual mass ones be lightened/balanced?

cant realy lighten them . i would just stick it on and leave it alone ,should be fine .