DIESEL. PETROL. DIESEL. PETROL

[antil33t 90]

If I wanted to go thrashing around...... I'll take a petrol....

But if I wanted a car to "live with" i'd take a diesel.

[Guest Simon*]

The question was and I [ quote]

Which will get more market share in the next 5 years? Petrol or Diesel

And even though I love my petrol V8 and won't be giving that up - I had to concede diesel as my answer

[swordfish 30]

Personally I don't trash my car and I have petrol. I might drive it harsh once a week and only for its own sake.

Edited February 8, 2010 by swordfish

[swordfish 30]

But looking 5 years into the future. I might be willing to buy diesel as an every day car just looking at how prices of petrol behave, but will never give up petrol as a weekend car.

Edited February 8, 2010 by swordfish

[kingkarl 136]

Peugeot 407 2.7 Diesel = 440Nm at 1900rpm (2.7-litre V6)

Peugeot 407 2.0 Diesel = 320Nm at 2000rpm (2.0-litre IL4)

All the new pugs diesels use a Porsche developed 6 speed tiptronic gearbox, and i can safely say it's a damm nice box to drive...

I think you're forgetting BMW is better at making engines than the french!

330d = 180 kW and 521 N·m @ 1750-3000rpm (Closest capacity to the 2.7 Pug)

320d = 130 kW and 350 N·m @ 1750rpm

[briancol 3]

I voted petrol and will always be a petrol person until New Zealand cleans up it's act with deisel.

The deisel that is available in this country is crap and until they get rid of the sulphur content, I would never consider a deisel car.

[DRTDVL 0]

I think you're forgetting BMW is better at making engines than the french!

330d = 180 kW and 521 N·m @ 1750-3000rpm (Closest capacity to the 2.7 Pug)

320d = 130 kW and 350 N·m @ 1750rpm

Thats kool, they are a new engine in terms of development. It would also be interesting to see what boost levels the turbos are running at comparatively.

The price for those cars is also substantially higher than that of the Peugeots also. I would expect them to be more powerful. It's the same as the co-developed 207 GTI and Mini Cooper S/John Cooper works specials, BMW changed the internals of the engine to allow more power to be developed, but the Mini also costs more.

Peugeot has never made "powerful" engines...

Edited February 8, 2010 by DRTDVL

[swordfish 30]

Lets not get into an argument... let's just say you pay for what you get. Power, speed, comfort and so on and so on and so on. Surely you pay quite a bit for the badge too... But it is way worth it!

[bravo 35]

I voted petrol and will always be a petrol person until New Zealand cleans up it's act with deisel.

The deisel that is available in this country is crap and until they get rid of the sulphur content, I would never consider a deisel car.

I think you're living in 2005 Brian, back when Diesel in nz could have up to 500ppm sulphur content.

They changed the laws, and now all diesel must have 10ppm or less sulphur content (ultra low sulphur diesel). This came in on 1 jan last year.

Edit - updated info regarding sulphur levels as per an email from the Min. Eco. Dev.

[DRTDVL 0]

Lets not get into an argument... let's just say you pay for what you get. Power, speed, comfort and so on and so on and so on. Surely you pay quite a bit for the badge too... But it is way worth it!

I wasn't getting into and argument... it was just a discussion.

[westy 614]

I wasn't getting into and argument... it was just a discussion.

Would you put a diesel in your 205?

[Wom 0]

Now that our diesel is ok for modern vehicles, I think that market share will depend on whether the Government changes the RUC's

[DRTDVL 0]

Would you put a diesel in your 205?

Depending on the diesel and if you could get the gearing to ulitlize the torque band then yes.

VW had entered a few golf mk4 and mk3 diesel rally cars in the 90's with some success but the tech back then wasn't at the level to which it is now for diesel engines.

If you look at wrc cars due to the restrictor plate they are required to run they rev very very low if i remember it's something like 5,500 - 6,500 as air flow above that is restricted too much by the plate. The engines are developed to produce as much torque as possible.

The new diesel engines are all alloy so the weight isn't as much as of problem as before with the older cast iron engines. There isn't much in the way of "performance" diesel components at the moment, but over the next few years i will suspect that will change. You only need to look at WTCC and Le Mans to see that diesel doesn't equal heavy and slow....

[melowpuf 19]

As a daily diesel driver, I voted for Petrol.. Only because I think the majority of people are scared of diesels or uneducated.. Slow, sluggish, smokey, rar rar rar.. all of which was left behind in the 90's. Another reason is the RUC which everyone hates.. myself included.. Not so much having to pay RUC.. the amount you have to pay. As has already been said, Commercial/Private, 3 tonne Truck/1400kg private car being charged the same amount I think needs to be addressed, there has been talk about this pricing structure for years but nothing has ever happened..

These are the 2 main reasons why I chose petrol as most people see these as major issues with diesels and run in the opposite direction.. One more is I think people still associate diesels with Isuzu bighorns, Toyota surfs and other suburban tractors..

But I myself, love my wiesel (325tds '93 manual) and will replace it with another diesel when the time comes. Being able to commute from Manurewa to Parnell 5 days a week (270km)and put $30 diesel in my tank a week including all my running around in between. Defnitely not slow, sounds a bit like a tractor on the outside.. Able to tow what ever I want and still overtake up hills. My maths says its a hell of a lot cheaper than putting $120/week into my petrol cars, even when i take into consideration the higher Registration and RUC.

And on the other hand.. I love my petrols aswell.. just not for daily driving or towing..

[Jo Blogs 11]

I drove a new Mini Diesel 6 speed in the weekend, what a cool car!!!! very fast as well!!!

[Guest Ari Gold]

I'm late to the party, but there is still way too much sulfur in our diesel fuels.

[Jo Blogs 11]

I'm late to the party, but there is still way too much sulfur in our diesel fuels.

Excuse the ignorance.....but what exactly does the sulpher affect?

[deeveus 81]

I think you all know what I voted for.

EURO DIESEL by the country mile. The Asian diesels are good but I'm told by a ex Nissan now Toyota mechanic that marketing has pushed them beyond the zenith of realistic long term reliability & have heard horror stories from new Nissan utes having engines replaced, turbo's, drivetrain issues e.t.c. all well under 100,000km

I had an debate with my brother inlaw lastnight who bought my XR6 off me about 2 years ago. He recently travelled from Dunedin to Picton & I laid down some figures. If you look at things from an economy point of view, the diesel is still the bread winner for the same weight/class. But economy combined with 500nm of torque on the X5 at 2000rpm makes it an easy choice for us.

Fuel prices as at 6/3/10 & open road fuel consumptions.

His XR6 does 9.6l / 100km @ BP Ultimate @ $1.929

My BMW X5 3.0d 218ps uses 8.3l / 100km @ $1.129

This means on the 690km trip from Dunedin to Picton would cost each car:

Falcon: $127.77 (690km x 9.6l/100km divided by 100 x $1.929 per litre = $127.77) x 2 (return to Dunedin) = $255.54

BMW X5: (690km x 8.3l/100km divided by 100 x $1.129 per litre = $64.65) x 2 (return to Dunedin) = $129.30

RUC is $36.90 per 1000km (FARK!) So you need to add this into the equation 450.92 (1380 x $36.90 divided by 1000 = $50.92)

TOTAL FOR:

X5: $180.22

XR6: $255.54

V8 Petrol X5 does aprox the same on the open road as the XR6 to that puts things a bit into perspective. If you could imagine this over a years period you're gonna save some dough. Alot of people think that Diesels are expensive to service & repair, they're right but most modern Diesel euro's now have service intervals of atleast 20,000km, my X5 is 25,000km and a general service is $900aprox from a BMW dealership which will be the most expensive. Before it came down to a power thing & petrol was the winner, oh my how things have changed. KW is BS to me, Torque is the power especially for day to day use. Who spends most of their car's rev-range above 5000rpm where most of the power is in a petrol?

We have a Madza 6 GSX Wagon as our other work car which does about 500km a week @ about 10litres per hundi so about $100 bucks a week on fuel tops. We're considering replacing it with a Ford Focus 1.8 diesel TDCi which is 5.3l / 100km which will mean a saving of around $50 per week, $200 a month, $2400 per year. Now the Mazda 6 goes very well, but after driving the Focus diesel, they do have a bit of lag at the front of the rev-range but after that they are a bloody lively character & brilliant for overtaking.

Sorry for the 8 page essay LOL

[kiwi535 538]

If you compare the direct injection turbo petrols (no, not the shitty SIDI commondore) you will find that the gap becomes much much smaller. My 335i pumps out over 300bhp/400nm of torque and returns 8.8l/100km on the open road. I think comparing a XR6 or a Mazda6 to a BMW diesel is a little misleading. Those two have terrible engine technology - hopeless. You get ~140bhp for your 10l/100 in the Mazda6 - how inefficient is that?! These types of cars are fuel hogs - they deliver poor performance for what they consume.

As for power delivery - the 335i pumps out maximum torque at 1400rpm and holds it flat right across the rev range. I love driving BMW diesels - I've spent many a day in the 335d, 320d, 120d, X5d - but I wouldn't say the diesels are better driving day to day. If you spent the day in my 335i I think you would change your tune - especially if you DID want to go above 5000rpm for some kind of passing maneuver - the power is there. A diesel dies at about 4500.

So, the BMW diesels are GREAT - I really really love driving them, but I think the newer DI turbo petrols ultimately give you the best of both worlds.

i want to see if someone brings out a D.I turbo petrol two stroke...

Edited March 6, 2010 by kiwi535

[deeveus 81]

If you compare the direct injection turbo petrols (no, not the shitty SIDI commondore) you will find that the gap becomes much much smaller. My 335i pumps out over 300bhp/400nm of torque and returns 8.8l/100km on the open road. I think comparing a XR6 or a Mazda6 to a BMW diesel is a little misleading. Those two have terrible engine technology - hopeless. You get ~140bhp for your 10l/100 in the Mazda6 - how inefficient is that?! These types of cars are fuel hogs - they deliver poor performance for what they consume.

As for power delivery - the 335i pumps out maximum torque at 1400rpm and holds it flat right across the rev range. I love driving BMW diesels - I've spent many a day in the 335d, 320d, 120d, X5d - but I wouldn't say the diesels are better driving day to day. If you spent the day in my 335i I think you would change your tune - especially if you DID want to go above 5000rpm for some kind of passing maneuver - the power is there. A diesel dies at about 4500.

So, the BMW diesels are GREAT - I really really love driving them, but I think the newer DI turbo petrols ultimately give you the best of both worlds.

Sorry if I've mislead but I wasn't meaning to compare the two cars, the initial argument was that me bro inlaw thought that his car on a trip would be more economical. The XR6 yes, horrible, but the Mazda 6 drives around town all day long & we live high in Dunedin 310m above sealevel, so 10 / 100km is bloody good IMO for a 2.3litre & the Mazda 6 performs bloody well for it's class & price bracket.

I've owned many V8's, Turbo charged cars & they're all bloody good but for every day driving a Diesel suits me more, I'm not taking off foot flat everywhere I go and very very rarely will I ask my X5 to go above 3000rpm. The GTS VE Commodore I previously was pretty much the same, ALL the grunt was at the top of the rev range, useless for day to day driving IMO.

For city driving you can't tell this guy that a 3litre turbo petrol is going to be more economical than a diesel. I think the best way to compare it would be the 335i & 335d I'd imagine that the diesel would only be marginally slower to 100 for example & probably quite a decent amount cheaper to run, especially around town. Last time I checked the kw is the same but the Torque is about 200nm more which I'd rather have.

I guess it comes down to a personal preference. A good mate of mine owns a 335i in Sydney and it's bloody brilliant, especially off the mark, infact in the real world it's probably quicker to a 100 than what my GTS was even though Holden claim 4.8seconds.

[antil33t 90]

Falcons have Quad Cam sir.

Boss 260 vs Honda is fairly fairly amusing however.

[deeveus 81]

LOL, I will say the Commodore for the money $100k is a bargain for the performance really. Who can contest that?

Fuel consumption 335i

Urban (l/100 km) 14.4

Extra-urban (l/100 km) 6.8

Composite (l/100 km) 9.6

335i (currently) is

225kw (306)/5,800rpm

400nm/1,300-5,000

335d is:

Fuel consumption

Urban (l/100 km) 9.7

Extra-urban (l/100 km) 5.6

Composite (l/100 km) 7.1

210kw (286)/4,400

580nm/1,750-2,250

The torque coming in at 1400 is huge for a diesel but for a petrol, wtf? Thats pretty amazing to be fair. I'm also in tune with get what works best & for me with what I do the X5d is the best, it just means I can go about my work during the week, put the kid in with the gear after work and then haul my ATV up to the crib in the weekend with minimal fuss & superb economy.

Edited March 6, 2010 by Clinton

[antil33t 90]

My parents Falcon is getting better Urban Mileage than your 335i sir.

[antil33t 90]

So? They own the car, they worked it out themselves... it averages 11.2L/100km around town.

[Jo Blogs 11]

Perfect answer.

Right, I just walked out and checked mine right now after a few weeks of driving around Auckland.

10.8l/100

10.8<11.2

My Peugeot Diesel:

Around town: 6.7L per 100km (and i am heavy footed)

Open road: 4.8 to 5.3 L per 100km

My 740i

Around town: 28.8L per 100km

Open road : 11l per 100km

Haha now do you see why the diesel is my daily driver?

Edited March 6, 2010 by Winckel