couple of quick questions about a budget stroker

[brad91 0]

Hey guys. Just got a price on a m20b27 long motor at $700.

Was thinking about pulling the head off and replacing with my m20b20 head.

Questions 1: Will it work?

Questions 2: What kind of power can i expect?

Questions 3: What ecu will i need to run? and iwll i need to change my wiring loom?

Question 4: They dont have the b25 intake manifold/TB. So should i use my b20 intake as im not sure if the b27 has one?

Question 5: Will the engine mounts that i currently have work?

Question 6: What kind of rev's will the motor be capable of? Wanting it for drifting so higher revs would be good. I think i have read that you can use a b25 ecu? Will this increase my rev limit with the b20 head?

I can get a b25 ecu for $195 and wiring loom if needed for $200 so im hoping that i can build a budget motor that will see me skidding 2nd gear and maybe 3rd/4th at the big track over here where i have a decent run up.

I know i have another thread asking about motors but this one is specifically for this. I have read as much as i can and cant find anything on what doing this motor setup will run like and how it will perform.

Thanks guys

[skidz 196]

Hey guys. Just got a price on a m20b27 long motor at $700.

Was thinking about pulling the head off and replacing with my m20b20 head.

Questions 1: Will it work? Yes

Questions 2: What kind of power can i expect? Depending on other mods, about 150- 180 hp

Questions 3: What ecu will i need to run? and iwll i need to change my wiring loom? If your current B20 motor is facelift and motronic, you can just plug in the 325 ecu. (Actually, you just need a B25 chip). Otherwise, you need the race guys to tell you how to get HP out of the L Jet setups...

Question 4: They dont have the b25 intake manifold/TB. So should i use my b20 intake as im not sure if the b27 has one? Try to get a 325 manifold and TB - they are much better. B27 is same as B20.

Question 5: Will the engine mounts that i currently have work? Engine mounts are the same

Question 6: What kind of rev's will the motor be capable of? Wanting it for drifting so higher revs would be good. I think i have read that you can use a b25 ecu? Will this increase my rev limit with the b20 head? Popular opinion is divided on longevity of the 2.7 crank. Some say they break easily, others say "never seen one break". But most people limit to 6,000rpm. If you want revs, use a 325 motor. They will run all day to 7,000rpm, the limiting factor being the rockers.

I can get a b25 ecu for $195 and wiring loom if needed for $200 so im hoping that i can build a budget motor that will see me skidding 2nd gear and maybe 3rd/4th at the big track over here where i have a decent run up.

I know i have another thread asking about motors but this one is specifically for this. I have read as much as i can and cant find anything on what doing this motor setup will run like and how it will perform. There is an article on here somewhere, on a sticky i think. Good luck. (Man, those prices you are quoting seem high?)

Thanks guys

[e30plz 1]

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/index.php/Building_a_2.7

Youtube can give you an idea of how they perform..

Edited August 23, 2010 by M20B20ONP

[brad91 0]

OK got a couple prices today...

m20b27 long motor (inc head but will just bin that) for $700 + b25 ecu for $195...

Then got to thinking about a m30b35 swap Apparently they are around the 220hp mark standard? And with head work im sure would see a lot more. However the first wrecking yard wants $2500

second wreckers i rang has one for $600 and a gearbox for $450. (yes i know i typed this in my other thread lol. Just thought i would type it again for those who didnt read both)

That price includes the wiring loom, ecu etc.

So now i have to decide. Which way should i go? i would love an m30 for the power/torque however from what i have read they are a pain to swap? Is there any detailed threads on converting to m30?

Whichever way i go i will take lots of photos and post up a detailed build thread showing step by step what to do as i havnt found any on the net yet. And i think its only fair that i give back to those who helped me..

So now i need your opinions? Keeping in mind i want to keep it under the $1500 and MAX $2000 conversion...I work at an engineering place (in the office but still know very basic welding and have alright design skills ) so im sure i can build the mounts i need. Its just everything else like exhaust and wiring (im terrible with electrics :S)

Thanks guys!

[Jacko 2091]

OK got a couple prices today...

m20b27 long motor (inc head but will just bin that) for $700 + b25 ecu for $195...

Then got to thinking about a m30b35 swap Apparently they are around the 220hp mark standard? And with head work im sure would see a lot more. However the first wrecking yard wants $2500

second wreckers i rang has one for $600 and a gearbox for $450. (yes i know i typed this in my other thread lol. Just thought i would type it again for those who didnt read both)

That price includes the wiring loom, ecu etc.

So now i have to decide. Which way should i go? i would love an m30 for the power/torque however from what i have read they are a pain to swap? Is there any detailed threads on converting to m30?

Whichever way i go i will take lots of photos and post up a detailed build thread showing step by step what to do as i havnt found any on the net yet. And i think its only fair that i give back to those who helped me..

So now i need your opinions? Keeping in mind i want to keep it under the $1500 and MAX $2000 conversion...I work at an engineering place (in the office but still know very basic welding and have alright design skills ) so im sure i can build the mounts i need. Its just everything else like exhaust and wiring (im terrible with electrics :S)

Thanks guys!

Why not go 24V? 2k AU should get you everything to get an M50B25 going, if you do it on the cheap, and if the M50's in good nick to start with. check out www.e3024v.com & http://www.e30dohc.com/wiki/index.php?title=DOHC_Swap_Basics

Edited August 23, 2010 by Jacko

[Silver Fox 43]

+1 on the M50B25 swap, E36 arms, E34 sump and off you go, 190 odd hp stock.

[brad91 0]

is that 190hp atw's or at the flywheel?

And what exactly is needed? Will i have to change my loom? If i can get away with the standard loom i will be lol. I hate wiring looms. they confuse me

[APT 187]

190 at the flywheel..If you want cheap and easy go m20 2.7 with slight headwork, headers and remap you should see close to 190hp, But if later on you want to go boost go with the m50 theres alot more potential.

[Jacko 2091]

is that 190hp atw's or at the flywheel?

And what exactly is needed? Will i have to change my loom? If i can get away with the standard loom i will be lol. I hate wiring looms. they confuse me

Read the websites, if you wanna do a swap your gonna need to do some reading, google is your friend

196 at the fly wheel, healthy improvements can be made with new headers/exhaust though and its a much more modern engine than M20/30's

Depending on you car and the engine you get, lots of the hard work with adapting the loom has been done and there are easy diagrams online.

The Basics of whats needed, if you use your E30's gearbox -

M50B25+loom+ecu+O2sensor

E36 engine arms

E28 engine mount rubbers

E34 sump

E34 throttle cable

Clutch to handle the juice

Electric fan kit

M20 water temp sender (rethreaded)

Modded gearbox crossmember

Modded stock exhaust manifold or new headers

Machined M20 flywheel

New smaller diameter brake booster (or you can grind the intake manifold on the M50, if on the cheap)

+Bits for the M50 (gaskets, thermostat etc)

+Whatever is needed to cert the car in strayla (drive shaft hoops etc)

Edited August 23, 2010 by Jacko

[brad91 0]

thanks. I have read heaps on the internet but i find so much that contradicts things other sites have said so i finally decided to join up to where i found the best information and ask a few questions

So massive thanks to everyone so far. How hard is a loom to change over?

Im still leaning towards the b27 bottom end as i think it will still be cheaper. They want like $2500+ for memory (atleast at the one place i asked which is the cheaper place) just for a bare m50:S

Will the b27 with b20 head have much more power over the b25? (they still want $1500+ here for a b25 )

If you look up archerfield drifting on youtube thats where i spend most of my time skidding. Its a small tight track and then the only other track is queensland raceway. They are the only places i would go. Would the b27 be enough to skid those?

[brad91 0]

ok so will be picking up my m20b27 long motor tomorrow. Should have intake mani but maybe no throttle body.

Dont know about exhaust but i should be able to use mine right?

So what kind of modifications will i need to see the 150+hp atws while remaining NA?

Will 2.7 injectors work or should i go 2.5?

I have heard of using a falcon throttle body, its 70mm for memory. Will that work on my 2L intake?

Is there anything on the motor i need to check when buying it? such as year model, things to look for condition wise?

Will my m20b20 radiator work?

And what ecu will i use? The wreckers here want numbers off the ecu so they can get the right one?? apparently m20b25 isnt enough?

Thanks guys. Really need to know as soon as possible so i can go over first thing tomorrow to pick it up

[skidz 196]

It is all quoted in the article above by E30zone

Just read it and take notes of the parts you need, looks like you will be following Option One.

Cant tell you about which ECU as you have not told us what EFI system you currently have - motronic or L Jet.

[brad91 0]

ah sorry guys. Im pretty sure its motronic? 89 model. Ljet is the earlier stuff isnt it?

[brad91 0]

Will the car run fine with the standard b25 ecu? Or will i have to get it remapped? And if so how do i go about that?

[antil33t 90]

Dizzy on the very front of the engine near the fan?

[brad91 0]

not sure lol. Pretty sure? Pretty sure the ecu had bosch written on it? And its under the drivers side (rhs) steering column. Has plastic bumpers and is a 1989 japanese delivered model. If that helps at all?

Also what injectors would i run?

[brad91 0]

Hey guys. Had another thought last night.....

If i buy the m20b27 long motor like i was going to do and run my b20 head. Would there be any benefit to running my m20b20 rods? Would this work? Remember reading somewhere that the b20 rods dont work with one type of piston? (hit or something). Or could i get away with it and maybe get a bit more stroke out of the piston? Or would this then change my compression dramaticly?

[e30plz 1]

The crank is made from spheroidal grey cast iron and the connecting rods are the same 130mm end-to-end items as the 320, 320i, 520, 520i and 323i.

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/index.php/Building_a_2.7

[brad91 0]

Just read that top to bottom twice and am still confused.

The b20 rods are the same length as the b27? Is that right?

So there wouldnt be any advantage to running them?

[e30plz 1]

Yep, exactly the same, no advantage.

[brad91 0]

OK awesome. Hmm just got offered a swap for a mx5 :S dont really want to get rid of the beema but mx5 with my 400hp rotor in it would be fun as. Then just drop an ls1 into the fc :S

Think im gona stick with the beema. Much more manly car lol. And i love 4 doors. I think i better go get this motor quickly so i can get all slight thoughts about swapping out of my head lol.

On that link you posted it says dont expect much more than 180bhp with the b27 bottom and b20 head. I thought it would only make around 130? Or is the 180 with heap work etc? or at the flywheel?

[e30plz 1]

Good choice..

130hp is probably what the stock B27 makes. 180hp would be as the link describes, B20 head etc.. no head work.

[brad91 0]

so would that be 180 atws? If its 180 at the wheels im really liking the stroker motor idea and may have ot take a day off work next week to ensure i get the motor haha. Would go this saturday but i think i will be attempting to break my fc again lol.

[APT 187]

Doubt it is ATWs(unless someone can prove me wrong with dyno sheets) expect to make about 160hp ATW with lots of torque. I have this exact same engine set up in my car now, B27 Block, B20 Head, B25 throttle Intake, 272 Shrick Cams still have extractors to put on and tune so dont have any Dyno Results Yet. But from what ive done i can tell you it pulls really well.

[brad91 0]

will it keep the wheels spinning in 2nd, 3rd and maybe 4th gear if i am holding it siodeways?>

And what ecu are you running?