LSD

[Gus 5]

interesting.....i just didnt imagine a race series such as the v8 supercars not being able to turn their rear wheels at different speeds......strange

[CaM 0]

interesting.....i just didnt imagine a race series such as the v8 supercars not being able to turn their rear wheels at different speeds......strange

they're not exactly technologically advanced though are they???

v8 "supercars" = :gay:

:puke:

:thumbsdown:

they run locked diffs, so does the nz v8 tourer series.... heaps of race classes do

[rxsumo 33]

One of the main reasons for running locked diffs is weight.

A LSD unit for something that has huge torque....V8s and big boost turbo cars....

has the disadvantage of additional, weight 30KG+ over the weight of a locked diff.

In the case of race cars the concept of a locked diff, doesnt make much difference, they are a bit harder on rear tyres than LSD/open diffs, and you end up driving the car like a go kart.

The locked diff is the reason that the rears of the Super cars are put on wheel dollys when they are moved around the pits.

[rxsumo 33]

One of the disadvantages to a LSD is the increased oversteer at the limit.

To Quote the 535 Owners Handbook section on the multi disc LSD

"A car also tends to spin round on its vertical axis (centre of gravity) when the power output is high or when load reversals occur on surfaces with a varying degree of grip. A good deal of skill is required to control such skidding or spinning, particularly when driving in a highly enthusiastic manner"

See the Germans do have a sense of humour...closet drifters?

[E30_318i 0]

Na they are just covering their arse incase some f**ked yank decides to sue them after getting the arse out and hitting a lamp post or whatever, and not being warned about it. As if they would read the owners manual anyway

Interesting that it doesn't say that in the 525 manual Even tho it has caught me out a couple of times. Unexpected oversteer

[kiwi535 538]

A good deal of skill is required to control such skidding or spinning, particularly when driving in a highly enthusiastic manner

nothing closet about that to me!I must read my manual again to see how i am(NOT) supposed to do it

[dave 2]

they're not exactly technologically advanced though are they???

v8 "supercars" = :gay:

:puke:

:thumbsdown:

ur a dick, v8s pwn ur face!!!

seriously!

grant back me up!

[Gus 5]

i still fail to understand why people consider oversteer to be a bad thing....

[Surge 1]

Been reading some old car magazines describing E30's handling "Snap Oversteer" appears in like 3 of them. - Sounds fun.

"A good deal of skill is required to keep the car sideways and obtain maximum dooorifft points whilst not sending it into a tree"

Edited April 18, 2005 by Surge

[Grant 4]

they're not exactly technologically advanced though are they???

v8 "supercars" =  :gay:

:puke:

:thumbsdown:

ur a dick, v8s pwn ur face!!!

seriously!

grant back me up!

Consider yourself backed up.

The V8 Supercars are awesome, and are some of the best tip top racing in the world.

I watched the first race from about the entry to the pit lane, and saw them come off the hairpin, and over the hill. Those cars accelerate so quickly, and also brake so amazingly well.

I watched the second race from the end of the back straight, and hairpin. The leading drivers are doing 270km/h on the back straight, and then only brake once they are almost on the hairpin.

Also due to the controlled nature of the cars, the racing is always close, and it is basically driver skill that makes the difference. Three abreast in the hairpin always proves interesting.

I have a fair few pics. If anyone is interested, I'll post them.

[cainchapman 0]

Oversteer is King :thumb:

[Guest Andrew]

Oversteer is King :thumb:

agreed

[kiwi535 538]

Oversteer is King

one assumes the traction control is turned off now and then???

Gus i think oversteer is feared because it does happen more quickly than understeer.and correction or should i say over correction often results in an (near)accident anyway???I admit to being a bit worried about overteer in my car,although its only happened once in the wet and i was pushing it it was quite sudden.....one reason for my dismal showing at our grass khana i was deliberatley oversteering it just to try to get used to catching it........Even on the grass it was fairly gradual,nothing like the sudden flick on a wet windy dark kaimai road about 24 hours after buying the thing......Same as the gtr torana i once owned....

Edited April 19, 2005 by kiwi535

[Gus 5]

but oversteer can be corrected....there aint bugger all you can do bout understeer except button off.....i love oversteer...roundabouts with random wet patches from a scrub truck got me today..was fun

[Carl 3]

Gus

Oversteer in E30's can take you by surprise and I like the description "snappy oversteer".

Going uphill in the wet I said to my mrs. "it would be so easy to lose it here, all you'd have to do was turn too tight and hit the gas too early" then somehow subconciously I did exactly what I was talking about and the back came right around - even with full steering lock into it - once you start 4 wheel sliding that's it. The main problem was crap tyres - barum.

I like oversteer, normally you can control it and it's alot of fun, understeer on the other hand is unnerving. Once you drill it into yourself to not turn in harder it becomes easy to handle, except, in the heat of the moment it's not natural to head straight!

[m325i 709]

Im scared of understeer

[Guest Andrew]

Gus

Oversteer in E30's can take you by surprise and I like the description "snappy oversteer".

Going uphill in the wet I said to my mrs. "it would be so easy to lose it here, all you'd have to do was turn too tight and hit the gas too early" then somehow subconciously I did exactly what I was talking about and the back came right around - even with full steering lock into it - once you start 4 wheel sliding that's it. The main problem was crap tyres - barum.

I like oversteer, normally you can control it and it's alot of fun, understeer on the other hand is unnerving. Once you drill it into yourself to not turn in harder it becomes easy to handle, except, in the heat of the moment it's not natural to head straight!

bollocks.. I would not call e30 snap oversteer. Try going 60 kph too fast around a corner.. they have a slow lazy oversteer (or understeer more likely with a factory setup) at high speed and even quite slow (80 kph).

Sure you can make them go sideways with a bit of throttle - but to me that isn't a handling characteristic of a car - and its near on impossible to control for any length of time without LSD. It is amazing how differently the car handles with LSD - much more predictable.

[Carl 3]

bollocks.. I would not call e30 snap oversteer. Try going 60 kph too fast around a corner.. they have a slow lazy oversteer (or understeer more likely with a factory setup) at high speed and even quite slow (80 kph).

Sure you can make them go sideways with a bit of throttle - but to me that isn't a handling characteristic of a car - and its near on impossible to control for any length of time without LSD. It is amazing how differently the car handles with LSD - much more predictable.

Andy, without an LSD turning right is very easy to produce oversteer, esp. when I had the crap barums on the car. When it let go it would be instant, not a slow here I am oversteer but a caught ya off guard here we go around oversteer.

Impossible to produce on left hand corners due to that being the crown wheel side.

LSD oversteer is much more fun and predictable and I would say definately laziness extremeness.

I should say though that this all happened when I had that funny diff. I was getting some really mad out stepping under engine braking on the motorway which wasn't much fun to say the least, although they're just an instant correct themselves thing.

[petone 0]

I have never driven with an LSD so can't comment on them but I find the biggest problem is telling whether its going to do the gay spin the inside wheel thing or both wheels let go. I don't find understeer that much of a problem, with the manual steering you can sense when its coming quite easily. As for the snappy oversteer comment, if you do it deliberate under power its not too bad, its when you aren't ready that a lot of people have been caught out. I know of 3 E30's that have suffered this fate, maybe 4. Although the drivers were inexperienced, it still shows you have to be ready for oversteer, espically in poor driving conditions.

My 2c

[kiwi535 538]

if you do it deliberate under power its not too bad, its when you aren't ready that a lot of people have been caught out

thats what i mean!

[E34-535ti 5]

Impossible to produce on left hand corners due to that being the crown wheel side.

Whats the reasoning behind that??

The 323i (now Glenns) was easier to hang out round left handers, dunno why.

Edited April 20, 2005 by E34-535ti

[Carl 3]

Whats the reasoning behind that??

The 323i (now Glenns) was easier to hang out round left handers, dunno why.

The reasoning: The crown wheel (drive wheel) is on the outside of the car. I'm sure there's some physics equation/explaination that shows the forces the wheels exert when facing certain directions.

Think of it this way, if the front wheels are pointing straight and the left rear wheel is spinning hard out, the car is more like to turn to the right than to the left isn't it simply because if you take the dead centre point of the car there's more rotational inertia in the clockwise direction.

During gymkhana I could quite easily produce drifts and donuts when turning with the drive wheel on the outside rather than when it was on the inside.

[Gus 5]

but I find the biggest problem is telling whether its going to do the gay spin the inside wheel thing or both wheels let go.

thats exactly what an LSD cures

carl ive never found any difference between left n right, but different drivers prefer certain side.....im cant really see how the side of the crown wheel makes a diff

i have to admit when i first got my old car, i was a bit of a gump....as im sure everyone at the lookout in taupo can attest to

[E30-323ti 66]

Sounds like you are saying your car is 1 wheel drive Carl!!

i have to admit when i first got my old car, i was a bit of a gump....as im sure everyone at the lookout in taupo can attest to

You said it Gus

[Carl 3]

Apologies

I'm a dumb arse. I've taken my experience with the bad diff I had and messed up my understanding of the way a proper open diff should work...thanks to Ian for pointing out my error.

That broken diff I had made me think only the left wheel was being fed power, hence why i've only ever experienced left rear wheel spin...will have to go out now and experiment with trying to get the right wheel to spin!!!