Component, amp and wiring advice please!

[kingkarl 136]

I'm replacing the factory system in my car and have the following planned:

- Components up front, undecided between these Rockfords and these Pioneers. My budget is around $200, what is better for similar money? Must be 5.25"

- Coaxials for the back, again 5.25". I've been told not to worry much about these. Running components in the back would presumably make things much more complicated on the install and amp selection fronts. My budget around $100 if anyone has a suggestion. If not I'll buy whatever semi decent lower range stuff repco has on sale. These will be run off the head unit.

-Sub, not fussed about this either, will probably go for a boxed ready to go jobbie. I don't need anything ridiculously loud.

-AMP - obviously I want something that can run both the components and the sub well. Will this fusion serve me well?

OR am I better off to run two seperate amps, one for the sub and one for the speakers? Is this doable with just the one pair of RCA out? Preferably I'd like to avoid this route due to increased wiring difficulty.

I'm relatively new to all this so forgive the dumb questions. I bought a $100 sony headunit with RCA sub/rear out. It only has the one pair of RCA out. Can I wire it so that i have control over the level of the just the sub at the head unit? Or if I adjust the level of the sub via the headunit will that also adjust the level of the components given they're run off the one input signal?

With a 4 channel amp can I bridge the 2 channels not used for the speakers to give the sub a bit extra power?

If anyone has done something similar in an e34 I'd appreciate any advice. I've searched the overseas forums but there's not a lot of specific advice/problems people have run into.

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

you need 3/4 channel amp one pair of terminals you will be able to bridge, they will be labelled. use this for the subwoofer, and the input is the RCAs coming out the back of the head unit.

for the front speakers, your amp (if new) will come with a square shaped plug with 4 or maybe 8 wires coming out of it. looks like picture below, thats the 8 pin version. the output to the front speakers from the headunit you wire to channels 1 and 2 on this little connector, and then the outputs of the amp to the speakers.

then power/ground etc, just make sure not to wire straight to battery unless you got a cap which you probably dont.

and then after all that, set head unit to 0 gain for the sub, and then turn the dial on the side of the amp itself to the volume you will like. this will mean you have control up and down from the head unit. do the same for the front speakers.

and your done

[kingkarl 136]

you need 3/4 channel amp one pair of terminals you will be able to bridge, they will be labelled. use this for the subwoofer, and the input is the RCAs coming out the back of the head unit.

for the front speakers, your amp (if new) will come with a square shaped plug with 4 or maybe 8 wires coming out of it. looks like picture below, thats the 8 pin version. the output to the front speakers from the headunit you wire to channels 1 and 2 on this little connector, and then the outputs of the amp to the speakers.

then power/ground etc, just make sure not to wire straight to battery unless you got a cap which you probably dont.

and then after all that, set head unit to 0 gain for the sub, and then turn the dial on the side of the amp itself to the volume you will like. this will mean you have control up and down from the head unit. do the same for the front speakers.

and your done

Mint, thanks for the info mate!

I've just read somewhere that using the headunit speaker outs as inputs for the amplifier will give a lower quality sound/more interference. I'm presuming that's total bullshit or of concern only for audiophiles? Otherwise why would amp manufacturers even give the option right?

[Ahmedsinc 414]

Probably does make a difference, but as you're running through an inexpensive Sony head unit I'd wager it won't be noticeable. I would advise you to find an alternative to the Fusion amp, my experience with them in the past showed them to be poorly built, crappily made & 'optimistic' with their claimed power outputs. Might be different now but they seemed to make a lot of noise, not necessarily quality sound.

[kingkarl 136]

Probably does make a difference, but as you're running through an inexpensive Sony head unit I'd wager it won't be noticeable. I would advise you to find an alternative to the Fusion amp, my experience with them in the past showed them to be poorly built, crappily made & 'optimistic' with their claimed power outputs. Might be different now but they seemed to make a lot of noise, not necessarily quality sound.

OK, cheers.

Better; http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=583057069 ?

[Ahmedsinc 414]

Better to go into a shop (not repco) and ask around, listen to a few & trust your ears man. Its been a few years since I've bought anything more involved than a new set of splits for wifeys babymobile. I still have a soft spot for Nakamichi & MB Quart gear, but again, I'm referring to kit thats over 10 years old now.

Any crowds around like Paul Money or Rapid Radio in Tauranga?

[Neal 544]

OK, cheers.

Better; http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=583057069 ?

Class d is easier on the electrics for the same power as a class ab amp. Looks like a reasonable amp for price.

Can your budget for speakers stretch to a couple of sets of these Visit My Website

Boston is getting out of car audio and has being selling off stock. These retailed for around 500 nz a pair.

Sound is very good as is build quality.

In terms of you head unit I'd run the RCA rear output to the amp and run both the fronts and sub off the pioneer. Use a y cable on the inputs and run the amp in 3 channel mode.

Sub wise look for something that's a min of 300 rms in a box size that suits your bmw. If you have a ski pass armrest think about a sub that sits at the right height to fire through the arm rest hole.

Rear speaker just connect to front speaker out. So on your Sony head unit the front and sub are off the rear RCA output. So the fader function will be in reverse ( set and forget )

Edited April 17, 2013 by Neal

[MD13 494]

Mint, thanks for the info mate!

I've just read somewhere that using the headunit speaker outs as inputs for the amplifier will give a lower quality sound/more interference. I'm presuming that's total bullshit or of concern only for audiophiles? Otherwise why would amp manufacturers even give the option right?

RCA's have some shielding built into the cable - means less noise can be introduced. As you'll probably be mounting the amp in the boot I'd personally look at getting a new headunit with 2 sets of RCA's - front and rear\sub. Something like this - Headunit

That'll will mean more tuning options (fade, balance and maybe even some sub crossover) and make wiring easier - 2 rca cables instead of 4 speaker wires and extra adapters.

Then either Neal's speakers or the pioneers you mentioned in the first post, that pioneer amp and a sub. Wiring kit and you're done... No need for any capacitors.

[rogan 7]

What do you want out of this system. One option is to run the fronts off the h/u; for 90% of people this is sufficient. I don't see much point in amping the fronts unless you're going to spend time and money installing the speakers properly

[kingkarl 136]

Class d is easier on the electrics for the same power as a class ab amp. Looks like a reasonable amp for price.

Can your budget for speakers stretch to a couple of sets of these Visit My Website

Boston is getting out of car audio and has being selling off stock. These retailed for around 500 nz a pair.

Sound is very good as is build quality.

In terms of you head unit I'd run the RCA rear output to the amp and run both the fronts and sub off the pioneer. Use a y cable on the inputs and run the amp in 3 channel mode.

Sub wise look for something that's a min of 300 rms in a box size that suits your bmw. If you have a ski pass armrest think about a sub that sits at the right height to fire through the arm rest hole.

Rear speaker just connect to front speaker out. So on your Sony head unit the front and sub are off the rear RCA output. So the fader function will be in reverse ( set and forget )

Those speakers look crazy good. Will probably buy them tonight, and even with shipping/exchange rate they'll be under $200 a set. Seeing as though they're such good value, might as well stretch for those as the back ones too.

RCA's have some shielding built into the cable - means less noise can be introduced. As you'll probably be mounting the amp in the boot I'd personally look at getting a new headunit with 2 sets of RCA's - front and rear\sub. Something like this - Headunit

That'll will mean more tuning options (fade, balance and maybe even some sub crossover) and make wiring easier - 2 rca cables instead of 4 speaker wires and extra adapters.

Then either Neal's speakers or the pioneers you mentioned in the first post, that pioneer amp and a sub. Wiring kit and you're done... No need for any capacitors.

That does make sense and I would like to retain full function. I'll see if I can return the HU to repco today. Good suggestion

What do you want out of this system. One option is to run the fronts off the h/u; for 90% of people this is sufficient. I don't see much point in amping the fronts unless you're going to spend time and money installing the speakers properly

By installing the speakers properly do you mean fine tuning their locations/angles etc? Is it wrong to assume the amp will improve the quality of the speakers? Or is it just not that noticeable in which case forget the 4 channel amp and go for a mono?

I just want semi decent power, relatively good clarity but most of all a nice even sound... not too much bass, not too much mid/high. And the ability to occasionally crank the sub hard for when my piss***t friends are in the mood to be spastics. Which is why I'm thinking a 2 RCA headunit is the way to go

Thanks for all the help lads. This is saving me so much confusion and indecision!

[Neal 544]

Fine tuning the fronts would mean something like putting the tweeters on the a pillars or top of the dash in the corners. If the crossovers are adjustable then back off the tweeters 3db if putting on dash.

If you run the fronts like this you will have a better sound stage and less of an issue with unequal distances compared to tweeters in doors.

For the rears I'd back off the sound output so that they running about a quarter volume of the fronts or less.

Sub wise pick for your music tastes. E.g 10 inch good for rock, punchy and fast, 12 inch , goes lower but timing of bass can be delayed , 15 inch higher output goes lower and harder , timing isn't great unless its a highend sub.

Not all subs in the same size are equal either and it could pay to check with Rogan in terms of best bang for the buck.

[rogan 7]

By installing the fronts properly I'm referring to doing some work on the enclosure that they play in. Presume the e34 has them in the front doors in which case you want to deaden the outer door panel and try to better seal the door cavity from the cabin (the door cards don't do a great job). This is where you get significant gains in the all important midbass. Without doing this, there's no point going mad on front speakers and amplifiers beacuse any gains you get will be limited by the enclosure.

I installed some high end components in an Alfa once. Due to time restrictions I had to do it in stages. First stage was just get them in and get them going. Slight improvement but not worth the $. Then I amped them; again an improvement but no where near worth the cash. Then I set about building some baffles and sealing off the door cavity. Enormous improvement.

Ages back in my wifes e30, we stuck a new headunit, 5.25 components up front in factory mounts and 5.25 coaxials in the parcel shelf, all run off the headunit. Added a 10" sub with a 2x75rms amp bridged and it rocked. As a daily driver with the ability to go reasonably loud it went well. Yes there was a huge hole in the lower midbass but you could disguise it with the sub bass.

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

Fine tuning the fronts would mean something like putting the tweeters on the a pillars or top of the dash in the corners.

all E34 come with tweeters in the dash factory, and most 535i 540i M5 etc come with another pair of tweeters in the doors where the side mirrors are.

Presume the e34 has them in the front doors

E34 main front speakers are in the foot wells, very similar setup to E30s are. i didn't do any deadening in there, should I?

[kingkarl 136]

Fine tuning the fronts would mean something like putting the tweeters on the a pillars or top of the dash in the corners. If the crossovers are adjustable then back off the tweeters 3db if putting on dash.

If you run the fronts like this you will have a better sound stage and less of an issue with unequal distances compared to tweeters in doors.

For the rears I'd back off the sound output so that they running about a quarter volume of the fronts or less.

Sub wise pick for your music tastes. E.g 10 inch good for rock, punchy and fast, 12 inch , goes lower but timing of bass can be delayed , 15 inch higher output goes lower and harder , timing isn't great unless its a highend sub.

Not all subs in the same size are equal either and it could pay to check with Rogan in terms of best bang for the buck.

OK I'll definitely follow your advice on the set up front. I'll see if I can fit the tweeters in the factory housing on the dash, if not then they'll probably sit on the A pillars.

Great info on subs. I listen to a massive variety of sh*t, evenly split between all genres. Classic rock, rap/hip hop, electronic, acoustic... you name it. I think I'll go for a 12" for a balance. I guess all subs are pretty much the muchness under $200?

I've purcahsed two sets of the bostons you recommended. All up was $308 - pretty outstanding price if they're as good as they are made out!!

I also swapped my el cheapo headunit for a slightly less el cheapo 2 RCA unit today. Only cost $70 more and will save me a world of hassle and give way more control. Plus the new one has iphone/android compatibility. No idea what that actually entails but I guess its some type of bluetooth connectivity sh*t.

By installing the fronts properly I'm referring to doing some work on the enclosure that they play in. Presume the e34 has them in the front doors in which case you want to deaden the outer door panel and try to better seal the door cavity from the cabin (the door cards don't do a great job). This is where you get significant gains in the all important midbass. Without doing this, there's no point going mad on front speakers and amplifiers beacuse any gains you get will be limited by the enclosure.

I installed some high end components in an Alfa once. Due to time restrictions I had to do it in stages. First stage was just get them in and get them going. Slight improvement but not worth the $. Then I amped them; again an improvement but no where near worth the cash. Then I set about building some baffles and sealing off the door cavity. Enormous improvement.

Ages back in my wifes e30, we stuck a new headunit, 5.25 components up front in factory mounts and 5.25 coaxials in the parcel shelf, all run off the headunit. Added a 10" sub with a 2x75rms amp bridged and it rocked. As a daily driver with the ability to go reasonably loud it went well. Yes there was a huge hole in the lower midbass but you could disguise it with the sub bass.

The factory fronts go in the kick panels. These ones below have been custom made over top of the factory location as an example. I'm hoping this will be an OK spot for them acoustically. I went with 5.25" because I wanted them to fit as close to factory as possible.

All great info cheers Rogan. I'll keep all of this in mind when installing the gear in a couple of weeks. I'm crossing my fingers the factory locations work without too much modification/difficulty. Please brace yourself for a question or two when I get stuck!

[rogan 7]

Front footwells are generally regarded as a better place than doors, longer path lengths to ears and they tend to be more sealed. Only thing you really need to do with footwell factory mounts is try and seal any holes in the metal around the speaker so you isolate the front of the speaker from the back.

e30Andy, the driver side e30 mounts are hopeless. there's wires running through the mounts so BMW recessed about 60 degrees of the mounting lip to run the wires. down side is there's no isolation of front of speaker to back. The panels behind are small and have plenty of joins so no real need to deaden them.

[kingkarl 136]

OK cool, work has a lot of insulation/sealant type products that will come in handy for sealing things off.

I think I'll get this sub and box unless anyone has a better suggestion for similar money. It might not be the best or loudest but will do what I want of it I'm sure.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-stereo...n-582556197.htm

http://www.jonvy.co.nz/index.php?route=pro...;product_id=168

The box volume is within 270mls of rockford fosgates' reccomendation so should go well.

[rogan 7]

That kind of price is hard to beat

[MD13 494]

Do you know about the wiring options for a DVC sub?

Just in case...

[rogan 7]

didn't read the d4 bit.

So bear in mind with d4 you're limited to 2ohm mono amps or Boston Acoustics 2 channel amps (there were some 2nd hand ones for sale on nzicemag just recently.

If you get D2 instead then you can use any 1ohm stable mono or any 2 channel amp

Side note: you can series a d4 to 8ohms but means you don't use the potential of the 2 channel amp.

[kingkarl 136]

Wow cheers, I would have completely overlooked this otherwise. Unfortunately I bought that 4ohm DVC this morning.

This is how I was thinking of running it:

I'm guessing that's a no go?

At 8 ohms the power will be a little low? Any idea how much power I'd be running through the sub given the amp specs of:

Specifications

• Total Max Power: 1200W

• RMS Power:

4ch Configuration:

4 x 100W (4ohm)

4 x 150W (2ohm)

4 x 125W (1ohm)

2ch Configuration:

2 x 300W (4ohm)

2 x 250W (2ohm)

This 2 ohm DVC sub is ideally what I need isn't it? If so I'll send it the 4ohm back tuesday and exchange it.

That should work well with the components wired the same as top?

Edited April 19, 2013 by kingkarl

[Ahmedsinc 414]

Mmmmmmm, Boston Acoustics!

[Neal 544]

Looks like the amp in bridged / tri mode makes its most power of 300 what's. with a 4 ohm per coil connected in parallel the amp will see a 2 ohm load and produce 250 watts.

With the amp being chosen it look like total load of 4 ohms from the speaker will produce the highest output.

So basically the dual 2 ohm version of the sub will produce the highest output from the amp in bridge mode.

Either way your car stereo is shaping up nicely. If you stay with the 4 ohm DVc version then you drop the max sound output slightly

Btw what head unit did you get ?

Edited April 19, 2013 by Neal

[kingkarl 136]

Looks like the amp in bridged / tri mode makes its most power of 300 what's. with a 4 ohm per coil connected in parallel the amp will see a 2 ohm load and produce 250 watts.

With the amp being chosen it look like total load of 4 ohms from the speaker will produce the highest output.

So basically the dual 2 ohm version of the sub will produce the highest output from the amp in bridge mode.

Either way your car stereo is shaping up nicely. If you stay with the 4 ohm DVc version then you drop the max sound output slightly

Btw what head unit did you get ?

Sweet so it probably wont make too much difference if I stick with the DVC?

Mate, your tip on those bostons could well be the biggest bargain I've ever scored! I'm super excited to get them in there. Thanks

I went for this. Was $170 @ repco. The cheap sony I put in my old car 5 odd years back was very well made (button feel), extremely easy to use and reasonably good looking.

The red/white of the sony wont look too out of place with BMW dash lights I hope. There were other headunits that fit better colour wise but their buttons felt like complete garbage and the design/button layout was less intuitive to me.

[Neal 544]

Unit has good features , the high pass filters and time alignment settings will be useful . DVC sub will be fine.

For $300 two pairs of Bostons is up there eh. I doubt they will dissapoint when paying entry split level price

I have a boston spg555 sub going into my build

Btw , check out this this link for some ideas.

http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/top...lium-bmw-323ci/

[rogan 7]

Email this fella:

[email protected]

or txt O21O761465

He was selling 3 Boston amps on nzicemag in the last week but think he sold the GT40 for about $180. See what he's got left

Edited April 19, 2013 by rogan