Help me design an audio system for E39

[zara 0]

Hey guys,

Sorry for the following long post, I've done a bit of research but I don't understand audio and electrical systems at all. I have a 2000 E39 and I want to upgrade the audio system.

I have the following on the car:

>Standard 16x9 TV/NAV. No DSP

>6 CD changer in boot

>Hi-fi system according to build sheet, which I'm guessing is just the standard speakers.

>I also have a Harman Kardon Drive n Play unit for iPod connectivity. I have been told both that this will work and won't work on my car, can anyone verify?

What I want out of the upgrade:

>High quality sound that is acoustically clean, clear and responsive. I listen to ALL kinds of music and would like something that is very well rounded

>Clean, solid and responsive bass. I don't want something to punch the roof out, nor would I like something that takes up too much boot space.

>I want a natural sound instead of having powerful waves pushed into my face. I like a bit of that echo effect, kinda like sitting in a living room listening to music if you know what I mean. Sorry I don't really know how to describe it.

My upgrade

> I have been suggested by M5V8 to look into Precision Power units. Research suggest 3 way PPI 3.65c is a good component and costs around $250USD. Any other suggestions are more than appreciated

>I need help on choosing a sub and the amps to power speakers and subs.

My budget is not to exceed $1500 NZD all up, but can be stretched a little. This includes

>Purchasing of speakers, subs, amps, wiring and other necessary accessories

>Professional installation as I can't wire to save my life

Also, I have done a bit of research and came to the conclusion that it is perhaps much cheaper to buy the items from overseas, ship them here and even potentially pay for GST than to buy locally. Is this true? I would prefer to buy locally obviously but don't want to pay 100% more for them. (I.E Rapid radio wants $1k for the PPI 3.65c)

Lastly, can anyone recommend a good audio installation place/person in Auckland?

Or if buying locally, a good vendor?

Thanks and sorry for long post again, I'm clueless on the technical jargon

[zara 0]

I've also considered being very lazy and getting BSW kits off the shelf....

http://www.bavariansoundwerks.com/product/...39-5-Series-M5/

and

http://www.bavariansoundwerks.com/product/...39-5-Series-M5/

But I have a feeling they won't sound anywhere near as good as if I mixed and matched

[kingkarl 136]

I had similar objectives for my recent install. http://www.bimmersport.co.nz/forums/index....showtopic=44247

A lot of that thread is set up questions but essentially I went for the following:

AMP: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car...Series/GM-D8604

SUB: http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/pr...x?itemid=120402

Components: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_5812_B...ustics-S50.html

Sub box: http://www.jonvy.co.nz/index.php?route=pro...;product_id=168

HU: http://www.sony.co.nz/product/cdx-gt320mp

Total cost was +/- $1100. I installed it myself so saved a bit of money there. The money I saved was at a huge expense of time however.

I imagine the e39 is a much more complicated install. On that note I image you're sticking with the standard head unit. If that's the case it may be tricky (expensive) because the standard system will be run off the factory amp. I don't know how good it is in the e39 but my e34 standard amp was total garbage. If your factory amp is not satisfactory then wiring will probably be tricky as far as running an aftermarket system through your factory headunit. Without a doubt it can be done and in truth it's probably not that hard but I think if you are to do it you can forget your $1500 budget.

The boston speakers are fantastic. I'm told they retailed for $500 NZ a pair a couple years back and I landed two sets for $310NZ from ebay. Definitely the best part of my system and certainly where you wanna be spending your money. I don't think you will get any better speakers for the dollars. Have a look for some bargains in the higher end of their range if your budget allows. The reason the speakers were so cut price is Boston is dropping their car audio line to focus solely on home stuff so obviously the old sh*t is on fire sale.

I'm pretty indifferent with subs (they all seem pretty doof doof to me) and on your budget I don't think you can be too picky. In any case I think it's wise to scrimp on the sub and buy better speakers instead. I'm very pleased with my cheap rockford 12".

My sub box is quite large and takes up a good chunk of the boot. Fortuitously it's the exact size recommended by RF on their website for my sub but if you have a family/cart lots of sh*t around in the boot I'd think about getting a slimline box or something similar (not cheap however). Perhaps you can knock one up out of MDF or know someone who has the tools?

The amp I got is very good. Nice and compact, seems like good quality and has very good heat dissipation. It could do with a touch more power (when I'm being a tool cranking the sub to the max it cuts on very bass heavy songs but I emphasize that is on very loud settings - if you're happy to listen to music like a normal person you'll be more than satisfied)

I would definitely encourage you to import your gear. Cross your fingers it slips through untaxed!

Make sure you buy the correct sized speakers for your factory locations. I hate doing any irrepairable damage to my interior seen or unseen and the fact mine fit perfectly in the factory spots is what I'm most pleased about. Also the correct sized speakers will save a lot of labour costs for your install.

Get a quote to install your desired gear then whatever's left of your budget will essentially dictate what stuff you will be able to stretch to.

I love driving my car even more now the stereo is good. Occasionally I'll sit in it with a beer and crank it for an hour or so haha. I'll never own a car with a shitty stereo again. Good luck and you wont regret spending the dollars

[zara 0]

Thanks Kingkarl, your reply was very informative.

I'm still stuck between using a 5.25" speaker for ease of installment, or getting 6.5s and making MDF brackets as 6.5s are most likely to produce better sound.

I think I'll spend less money on the bass, I don't want earth shattering bass so I don't mind it that much. I just want the boot space for road trips but otherwise I'm usually driving solo or with my gf. No family

The biggest dilemma is the fact that I'll be selling the car by December so I can't justify spending too much money, yet I spend close to 1hr in my car everyday at least and I absolutely love music.

Has anyone had trouble running amps though the factory HU? The overseas forums don't seem to report such an issue but then many of them change the HU. I don't really have a choice within my price range to replace the TV/NAV unit.

[rogan 7]

I'll be selling the car by December so I can't justify spending too much money, yet I spend close to 1hr in my car everyday at least and I absolutely love music.

I don't see the point of investing $1500 in car audio for 6 months use.

Sub:

Having said that try adding a sub first and see if you're happy with just that. E39 are painful for subs if you don't have a ski pass. Check behind the armrest to see if you've got a solid metal wall or whether it's precut - some are precut with the plate tack welded in. If it's precut you can knock it out and still have a road legal car. If it's not precut then you can't cut a hole without making it illegal. Without a ski pass, I'd fabricate a small box that fits into the arm rest void - you should be able to fit an 8" or similar size sub in there and it sounds like you'd be happy with that level of bass. Use the BSW subwoofer install guide to step you through the process cos it tells you which wires to tap into for signal etc. Battery is in the boot so power wiring is a breeze. If you have a ski pass then a 10" sub in the boot would do the trick.

Front and rear Speakers:

And if you go butchering the wiring (which I'd expect if you don't understand audio or electronics as you stated) then resale value drops. So I'd get the BSW speaker kit; actually I'd save some cash and just get the fronts for about US$320 - they only replace the midbass and tweeter, not the midrange. It's plug and play so you can uninstall in december and sell on separately. I wouldn't bother replacing the rears, especially not in a 6 month car.

Importing:

GST kicks in if value of goods + shipping costs more than NZ$400. So over $400 you pay GST on value and shipping. Under $400 and there's no GST. There's no duty on car audio either so GST is the only thing you have to consider.

Edited May 10, 2013 by rogan

[M5V8 337]

I'm still stuck between using a 5.25" speaker for ease of installment, or getting 6.5s and making MDF brackets as 6.5s are most likely to produce better sound.

Hey - if ur getting a professional to install go for the 6.5"s. a pro can whip up a MDF speaker Ring in 10 mins.

Even I made mine in a few hours over a wknd using just a gigsaw & sandpaper.

Like I said before there's plenty of room for 6.5"s with large magnets. The sound improvement over the pissy little 5.25"s is massive. I looked at the BSW system too but decided for less $ I could build my own which I can guarantee would sound considerably better.

Having said that if its just for 6mths use I would bother at all and just invest in an iPod.

But if u must you could easily plug in the BSW front speakers yourself. Prob get some coin back for them on trademe as rogan said

Edited May 10, 2013 by M5V8

[rogan 7]

HK drive and play is a standalone system. Then only requirement is an aux input into the factory system

[MD13 496]

If you factor in shipping time and time to install you don't have much time to enjoy any of that overseas stuff. I'd go with what Rogan said - by the by he's got a good build thread here somewhere (or on nzicemag forum) doing all sorts of interesting things to a e39.

Since you don't want to do it yourself get someone* to do a boot install - sub and amp. Listen and decide if that's enough. Maybe also get a local front speaker upgrade and I'd stay with 5.25 inch (I have a set of infinity kappa 5.25 components in the front of my e30 and other than wishing I'd amped them I'm happy).

Vendors - keep an eye on the 1 day deal section for abtech:

10 inch DD sub looks good

*installers is the hard part. I have heard very mixed reviews on Rapid Radio and even when people have said they did a good job it was very expensive!

[zara 0]

Thanks for the reply guys,

My midrange is blown so I'll at least be replacing those, but I've decided to locally source my subs and amps. I'm not too bothered about resale value, as long as the system is kept stock cosmetically I can't see how it can take more value away than blown speakers.

Last time I checked I don't have a ski hatch, but I haven't checked if it's been welded, I just saw a solid sheet of metal. My car doesn't have the ski hatch option in the build sheet either. I've heard that putting bass in E39 trunks are futile because you won't get any of it in the cabin?

Rogan when you say put a sub in the arm rest void, do you mean removing the arm rest? So the HK drive and play won't work with my headunit because it has no AUX in?

I'm not going with Rapid Radio for install, but any suggestions? I've been suggested a company (can't remember) that does installs, he's called Tom and last I saw him drove a white Evo 5/6, anyone know him?

[rogan 7]

Remove the arm rest from the back seat and replace it with a sub and enclosure. An 8 might fit in a small sealed enclosure. Without the ski pass, a sub in the boot is very muffled.

HK needs an aux input into the headunit. No idea if you have one or not or can add one.

For install, what part of Ak are you in?

Edited May 13, 2013 by rogan

[zara 0]

Remove the arm rest from the back seat and replace it with a sub and enclosure. An 8 might fit in a small sealed enclosure. Without the ski pass, a sub in the boot is very muffled.

HK needs an aux input into the headunit. No idea if you have one or not or can add one.

For install, what part of Ak are you in?

I think I was told I don't have an AUX input, is this at the back of the headunit? Anyway for me to verify this?

And I'm out west but come into city almost everyday, I am prepared to travel for good, not overpriced install

[Neal 546]

Would need to identify the tuner module in the boot to confirm aux or otherwise. Late model bm53 do , not sure about the bm24. What year is your e39 and does it have an orginal or retrofit sat nav ?

Otherwise a device like a dice that logically sites between the cd changer and factory tuner module could be a way of adding iPod support.

In terms of e ppi speakers do your research on the old models verse new. The tweeter on the old 355cs and 365cs have great clarity. The material on the newer 3.65 changed hence my question if anyone had listened to the newer series.

In terms of amps you will either have to use an amp with speaker inputs that daisy chain of the existing amp or find and amp that can balanced inputs from the factory tuner model. Balanced inputs support is typically on higher end amps and may not fit within your budget. Another way is to get something like and audio control lci electronic crossover but again unless buying second hand they aren't cheap.

Installer wise make sure you find someone that has worked on a sat nav integration install on an e39. You can easily spend 500-600 here.

[rogan 7]

If you're handy to the Upper Harbour Brideg I'd recommend a guy called Hennie who lives on east Coast Rd Browns Bay. Otherwise don't know anyone out west.

[zara 0]

Would need to identify the tuner module in the boot to confirm aux or otherwise. Late model bm53 do , not sure about the bm24. What year is your e39 and does it have an orginal or retrofit sat nav ?

In terms of amps you will either have to use an amp with speaker inputs that daisy chain of the existing amp or find and amp that can balanced inputs from the factory tuner model. Balanced inputs support is typically on higher end amps and may not fit within your budget. Another way is to get something like and audio control lci electronic crossover but again unless buying second hand they aren't cheap.

Thanks Neal, I'll have a look for it tonight, any idea where the tuner is located? My car is a 2000 E39, according to build sheet manufacture date is 28/06/00. It has the OEM 16x9 TV/OBC/NAV unit and is Japanese import. From the build sheet it says it came with OBC with TV

A quick Google tells me that I don't need to worry about balanced input because I don't have DSP?

If that's not the case, can you make a suggestion for which amp to run? I believe running the factory amp to upgraded speakers will not be possible/give them enough power?

If you're handy to the Upper Harbour Brideg I'd recommend a guy called Hennie who lives on east Coast Rd Browns Bay. Otherwise don't know anyone out west.

Thanks Rogan, I'm willing to travel no problem. Do you have any contact information on Hennie? And has he done E39's before?

Cheers

Jonathan

Edited May 14, 2013 by zara

[Neal 546]

The balanced audio use is normally between the tuner / pre-amp and the amp. DSP can complicate adding aftermarket audio. I haven't done a lot of research on balanced audio car audio amps after I checked out a few and found the prices at the point where an audio processor made better sense.

Cheapest amp found I found was a zapco which would roughly be $900 landed but maybe the installer above may know of a cheaper option.

In the end I modded the factory tuner to use standard rca outputs and decided to reuse my small soundstream stealth series amps. link

At around 2000 you tuner could either be a bm23/24 or a bm53 , either can be modded for rca output. The soldering is tricky as there are a lot of surface mounted components. Best to have a pro do it rather than a hobbyist.

swautomotive or hotwire may be able to do this for you.

[rogan 7]

Thanks Rogan, I'm willing to travel no problem. Do you have any contact information on Hennie? And has he done E39's before?

He done a heap of VWs so he's familiar with euros. Don't know of he's done any e39s. He knows his stuff, does a good job and he does it as a side hobby so guessing his rates are less than a shop. I'd get work done by him and I'm fussy.

Best to jump onto nzicemag forum and PM him. Goes by the forum name GLIDN. Tell him I sent you

[zara 0]

So I've ended up buying a PPI 3.65c 3 way component speakers from the states and a Dice Silverline Duo.

Will source the amp and sub locally and still looking for an installer.

Rogan I couldn't get onto nzicemag, it needed registering and the registration process is broken

[3 SERIES 93]

Definitely watching with interest.

Have just brought a NZ new 530i Motorsport and looking at installing a Dice Mediabridge or similar system followed by 10" sub and amp in the near future. Speaker upgrade will be last on the list so interested to see how you get on with your upgrade. Will you be adding a separate amp for the PPI's or using the factory amp?

Im interested in to see how upgrading speakers which require more power than the factory amp and a sub will work hand in hand without butchering the existing setup too much.

Keep us updated on how your install progresses.

[zara 0]

I'll update this thread as parts arrive and get installed. I plan to run an aftermarket amp for speakers and subs, so 4 channel amp? Also planning to get an 8" sub installed in the rear armrest as suggested.

[Neal 546]

Might pay to buy a 5 channel amp or 4 channel amp plus 1 channel sub amp. I'm not sure how well the BMW amp would react to running rear speakers only in a mix in match mode.

Put it this way ,not a mode that I'd run as you need to ensure that the factory amp doesn't go unstable without having a speaker load to run. Last thing you want is a amp smoking up behind trim panel.

[rogan 7]

FYI just waiting for Hennie to get back to me. My bad, I forgot to PM him earlier

[zara 0]

Thanks guys! Apart from Hennie, any other recommended installers? Not devaluing Hennie's ability or anything, I just want to keep some options open

[Arma 134]

I've heard that putting bass in E39 trunks are futile because you won't get any of it in the cabin?

It's not too bad. I had a 12" relatively loud sub in my 520i (which was less sealed than my 530i) and the sub was quite clear. Although the sub was fairly cheap so was not the BEST sounding bass ever but it did its job.

My e39 530i is more sealed than the 520i. I put two 10" Soundstream subs inside the trunk and they sound fantastic. Having one 10" probably wouldn't have done the job due to how sealed it is, but the 10" really brings out that 'thump' clarity in the bass and having two of them help carry the bass throughout the cabin, I can't complain.

Although, I am really interested in that 8" sub in the armrest idea - keen to see how that turns out; other than sounding decent, it might look pretty neat as well!

Edited May 22, 2013 by Arma

[tangalife 1]

Hey zara did you go through this Hennie chap, I live in Torbay so he would be quite useful for what I want to do to my E39

[zara 0]

My stuff hasn't arrived Ｙｅｔ so I've yet to contact him tbh, will let you know