S50B30 E36 M3 Ticking/rattle diagnosis

[duvey 245]

Thought I might as well get some opinions on what this might be. Originally thought it was the VANOS, and it still may well be. My main reason for doubting it is that it doesn't seem to be coming from the VANOS area of the engine.

Lee from HellBM thought that it might be VANOS rattling resonating along the head. We more or less ruled out timing chain guides.

It's really not very pronounced, and probably sounds a bit worse in the video that it does irl.

Let me know what you think!

Edit: Watched my own video and realised how terrible it was. Take 2! First video was taken after 30 mins of driving. Second video was taken cold. Doesn't seem to be any real difference.

Edited August 10, 2013 by duvey

[hybrid 1043]

I cant tell too much as your mic is making it sound like there is a squeal going on. Do me a favour and rerecord it warm and rev the throttle a few times in short sharp blips (full throttle) dont let it go over 3k rpm.

Here is the sound when VANOS has the wrong grade of oil.

All of the newbs on the interwebs will tell you you need to replace VANOS. People think thats the fix because at the time they put new oil in too.

S50bXX engines are very sensitive to the grade of oil. This is one of the main reasons Castrol developed an oil for the m3.

[duvey 245]

Thanks for your reply. I'll re-record and do an oil and filter change afterwards.

Without trying to start another 'what oil do I use?!?!11?' conversation - I'm leaning towards a fully synthetic 5W-30 or 10W-40.

After some extensive Googling, I read that thicker oils can cause valvetrain noise, so I'm tempted to go for the thinner option.

[BM WORLD 1283]

I cant tell too much as your mic is making it sound like there is a squeal going on. Do me a favour and rerecord it warm and rev the throttle a few times in short sharp blips (full throttle) dont let it go over 3k rpm.

Here is the sound when VANOS has the wrong grade of oil.

All of the newbs on the interwebs will tell you you need to replace VANOS. People think thats the fix because at the time they put new oil in too.

S50bXX engines are very sensitive to the grade of oil. This is one of the main reasons Castrol developed an oil for the m3.

what model or oil is that ??

or whats recomended ??

i have some castrol slx in stock??

what would that be suitabel for

M54b30???

s50b30 etc??

[Ultrarandom 3]

I believe I've seen the Castrol Edge Titanium 5W-30 at Coombes Johnston before. That's what I used in my old M52 and never had problems. This is what I'd be using personally. That or I'm pretty sure Penrite to a BMW approved 5w-30 (5W-40 marked but it's used in places where 5W-30 is used) HPR 5 I believe it is.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Ultrarandom

[duvey 245]

I believe I've seen the Castrol Edge Titanium 5W-30 at Coombes Johnston before. That's what I used in my old M52 and never had problems. This is what I'd be using personally. That or I'm pretty sure Penrite to a BMW approved 5w-30 (5W-40 marked but it's used in places where 5W-30 is used) HPR 5 I believe it is.

Ended up going for 5W-30 Castrol Edge Titanium - was recommended in the Castrol documentation too. Thanks for the input mate.

[duvey 245]

Take 3, with a different camera and revving as suggested:

[duvey 245]

Oil and filter change completed, 5W-30 Castrol Edge Titanium as above. Did air filter too.

Seems to be slightly better - difficult to tell. I think I might actually be going mad now, I've spent far too much of my weekend listening to my engine run

Take a look at the video and let me know what you guys think. Thanks again for the help.

[FRT 144]

Some of that brr'rrr'rr kinda sound is vanos, ticking sounds like injectors, they do have a very snappy sound i can hear mine inside the car while driving.

[euroriffic 607]

Mines got a rattle when cold but goes away once warmed up, s50b32. And Im running 10w60 Castrol edge. what do you use Josh?

[duvey 245]

It definitely sounds to me like its coming from the injectors, or something close to them. It almost sounds like very rapid electrical arcing. Not the distinct tick..tick..tick that usually points to lifters.

The other thought i'd had was that it could potentially be a exhaust manifold leak - as this can often cause very mechanical sounding noises. It also seems to blow a lot of steam, but this disappears after 5 minutes or so of driving, so I've pretty much written this off as normal.

Edited August 11, 2013 by duvey

[FRT 144]

Ive "fixed" noisey vanos before on another S50B30 by changing to Edge 10 40, the truth of the matter is with new seals and rattle kit fitted on my latest S50B30 it will run happily on 10 60 or 10 40 weight oil without noise.

Check the emissions air pump back up to the exhaust manifold the joint or that one way valve might have failed. Take out your air filter and see if any gas coming back up the small pipe at the bottom of housing.

Edited August 11, 2013 by FRT

[hybrid 1043]

The product that is specific for s50bXX and s54BXX is Castrol 10W60 TWS. You can get it from the dealers for around not much more than the retail version on repco shelves which isn't quite the same however is just as good.

Which is the BMW specific M oil.

I use Castrol 10W60 Edge in mine. The reason I use this as its an entry level competition oil which can hack 150+ degrees without crapping out on me. It is also formulated to run the right viscosity when hot. Allowing the VANOS to operate properly. It is pretty much the same as TWS accept TWS lasts longer for BMW 20,000k service intervals.

I change mine when it starts to get black (burnt or contaminated) so 10W60 SN Edge is fine. Its probably the best priced high performance oil around for the s50s tighter tolerances you can buy.

http://castroledge.co.nz/oils/10w-60-sn

If I had the extra $$$ I would run Motul 300v chrono. But it aint cheap.

[FRT 144]

The product that is specific for s50bXX and s54BXX is Castrol 10W60 TWS. You can get it from the dealers for around not much more than the retail version on repco shelves which isn't quite the same however is just as good.

Which is the BMW specific M oil.

I use Castrol 10W60 Edge in mine. The reason I use this as its an entry level competition oil which can hack 150+ degrees without crapping out on me. It is also formulated to run the right viscosity when hot. Allowing the VANOS to operate properly. It is pretty much the same as TWS accept TWS lasts longer for BMW 20,000k service intervals.

I change mine when it starts to get black (burnt or contaminated) so 10W60 SN Edge is fine. Its probably the best priced high performance oil around for the s50s tighter tolerances you can buy.

Ive read on the interweb that 10 60 due to its viscosity runs hotter than 10 40 under the same load, have you found this at the track?

I know a lot of american forums say they run 10 60 under high load/track to keep viscosity, but most U.S models dont have oil coolers like euro.

[hybrid 1043]

Ive read on the interweb that 10 60 due to its viscosity runs hotter than 10 40 under the same load, have you found this at the track?

I know a lot of american forums say they run 10 60 under high load/track to keep viscosity, but most U.S models dont have oil coolers like euro.

If you run 10w40 you get the VANOS rattle back so I just stick with the Castrol 10w60 SN.

The american cars remember arent real M3s .. they are bored out 328s which are totally different engines.

Stock oil coolers and oil thermostats only push through 30% of its oil through at max open for cooling.

[gtstarped 73]

It definitely sounds to me like its coming from the injectors, or something close to them. It almost sounds like very rapid electrical arcing. Not the distinct tick..tick..tick that usually points to lifters.

The other thought i'd had was that it could potentially be a exhaust manifold leak - as this can often cause very mechanical sounding noises. It also seems to blow a lot of steam, but this disappears after 5 minutes or so of driving, so I've pretty much written this off as normal.

interesting thoughts . sounds like a mix of exhaust leak (check front flexi as most split) and something around the injectors. i had a very similar sound from mine when i was using a bad crank sensor, just before it packed up and would not start. most have been bad signals to dme. running ok? if it just doesn't start one day after this, head to crank sensor.

[duvey 245]

Just a quick update. Had it scanned, and isn't throwing any errors other than the exhaust 02 sensors, which are disconnected. The noise, according to Bellar's Motor Works is normal injector noise - so that's a relief.

My car has been de-catted, but it's a pre-cat 02 sensor model, so I don't really understand why they would have been disconnected unless one was causing problems. I've ordered a peake tool and two new 02 sensors, so hopefully i'll get to the bottom of that one.