westy 614 Report post Posted March 29, 2006 Question is....How strong is the m52 ally block? There has been some sugestion that it would suffer under high power,by Conrod. Can you elaborate on this? Looking to turbo or supercharge for the desired power output ~400 hp. Would prefer to keep this block/engine for weight reasons,but if its not up to it, will have to look at something else. Thank you for your time and patience :jap: (Jeez,I hope theres no sp mishtacks.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gus 5 Report post Posted March 29, 2006 should you not have the cast iron block? i thought the alloy block was only on the z3? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westy 614 Report post Posted March 29, 2006 Only in the States. Forgot to mention its also Nicasil(sp) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
conrod 1 Report post Posted March 29, 2006 About all I can add, is that when BMW designed the S50 M3 engine, they considered the ali block not stiff enough, partly because it was overbored and there is not a lot of material between the bores. Generally speaking an ali bloc for the same thickness won't be as strong or stiff as cast iron, but then again nearly all race engines have an ali block, and the strength can be built back in by means of stiffening ribs etc. So to answer your question- will the M52 survive a 400hp turbo conversion without giving problems- I REALLY DON"T KNOW!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westy 614 Report post Posted March 29, 2006 Wasn''t there mention of someone trying to build an s50 replica from a m52?? Do I want to be a guinee pig??? Ls1 solves all problems Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
conrod 1 Report post Posted March 29, 2006 (edited) Yes it was attempted. I have only heard the story second hand, but apparently it didn't make a lot of power. This would more likely to be due to the combination of parts used or tuning, not the fact that it was an ali block. Block problems usually manifest themselves in the way of bearing problems in less extreme examples, in the worst cases they will result in a large failure (blowup) as the movement within the block causes bearings to make metal to metal contact and as a result rods are thrown,pistons seize, cranks break etc etc. What EXACTLY do you want to achieve? Edited March 29, 2006 by conrod Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westy 614 Report post Posted March 29, 2006 Im exploring my options.400 hp is a rather arbitory figure,as you probably know. Options are :m52 na. screamer.Head work,weber patern ITBs etc.300 odd horse?? m52 forced,pref supercharged.400 odd horse?? 4.4l V8 conversion,too heavy?? 400 odd horse?? Ls1 V8 conversion.Light,lots of power,compact.But I dont know weather I can bring myself to do it Shitloads of horse power. Any other ideas?? S54 would be nice,but availability is a question. Car is intended to be a weekend warrior as it were,not a daily driver.Not too disimilar to yours or Andrews,the odd club event,a targa or two later on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
conrod 1 Report post Posted March 29, 2006 (edited) Option 1: na screamer- possible, but 300hp would be hard to achieve, and very expensive. Easier and cheaper to go and find an S50 and transplant. And here is one I prepared earlier! http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/C...on-52134541.htm Option 2:supercharged and 400 hp- NO! From a turbo, yes, but double the hp with a blower, no. Active Autowerk kit looked good, and they even did RHD manifold. Option 3: the M62 is not THAT heavy, but 400hp? thats what BMW got out of the S62 with 5 litres and a lot of trick sh*t, you won't get it out of 4.4! Option 4: LS1, yeah, that will do it, will cost an arm and a leg if you have to pay someone to do it for you though. Option 5: Sell your car, and go and buy an M3. BMW have already done the hard work for you, and here is one someone prepared earlier! http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/S...on-51992867.htm Edited March 29, 2006 by conrod Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cainchapman 0 Report post Posted March 29, 2006 All valid points Conrad, if he spends $12k putting a Dinan Blower on the M60/M62, he will get 400hp. It would be better to buy a car he wants, instead of trying to make a silk purse from a pigs ear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Spargo Report post Posted March 29, 2006 OT: Glenn, it appears they wanted slightly more than I was prepared to pay! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
conrod 1 Report post Posted March 29, 2006 (edited) Doesn't mean he will get it though!........Never be afraid to make an offer on things, including those brakes!......... Edited March 29, 2006 by conrod Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Andrew Report post Posted March 30, 2006 is this for your e36? Or you got another car planned. I'd personally do a built M52 turbo - or S52 turbo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westy 614 Report post Posted March 30, 2006 (edited) For the e36 Andrew. I agree they are all good sensible points,but... If I was being sensible,I wouldn't be mucking around with cars $12000 for an engine!Dosn't really stack up against your purchase Edited March 30, 2006 by DirtySix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Palazzo 479 Report post Posted March 30, 2006 Lexus 4l V8 with Supra g/box on TradeMe last week, $1750, plus fitting and supercharger. 420 reliable hp is easily achievable with that combo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gus 5 Report post Posted March 30, 2006 would the 5spd handle the additional power chucked at it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Palazzo 479 Report post Posted March 30, 2006 A Supra or Nissan RB25 box, almost certainly, a 328i box, almost certainly for a while. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westy 614 Report post Posted March 30, 2006 Why bother with a supercharged Lexus 4l when an Ls1 will do it in its sleep? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Palazzo 479 Report post Posted March 30, 2006 (edited) An LS1 and box was (last time I asked) $12k, a figure which you've already moaned about. Lexus V8s aren't legendary for using 3-4 litres of oil every 10,000km either. Reliability? But hey, whatever floats your (dream) boat. Oh, and remind me, which Ls1 produces 400hp out of the box? An HSV motor? The above $12k was for a stock SS motor, '99 model producing 225kw with a slushbox. Edited March 30, 2006 by Palazzo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gus 5 Report post Posted March 30, 2006 An LS1 and box was (last time I asked) $12k, a figure which you've already moaned about. Lexus V8s aren't legendary for using 3-4 litres of oil every 10,000km either. Reliability? But hey, whatever floats your (dream) boat. e36 boom headshot!im voting turbo m20 do it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westy 614 Report post Posted March 30, 2006 I wasnt moaning about the price I was comparing it to a different purchase,but thanks for your input all the same. (Price was for engine only too) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Palazzo 479 Report post Posted March 30, 2006 Why not moan? I did. I had this in mind for an earlier project, but found the idea of paying $12k for an old V8 with "about 100kms mate" absolutely ludiicrous. Still do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
conrod 1 Report post Posted March 30, 2006 Good points about the LS1 Palazzo, everyone seems to have jumped on the LS1 bandwagon lately quoting HUGE hp numbers for peanuts, and as you well know the reality isn't at all like this. Holden NZ and Australia had huge recall problems on oil consumption/rattles etc. which saw many new engines torn down and rebuilt with different pistons. And as you rightly say, the 400hp (300KW) versions are not exactly thick on the ground, and will probably cost an arm and a leg to purchase. Further to that, if you ever see a Monaro/Commodore version with the sump off, and see the CRAP oiling system that is fitted to this version of these engines, it will put you right off. Sell your car, and buy a 3.0 M3, and if that is not fast enough, modify that. Still cheaper in the long run than any of the other options you have suggested, and will have a higher residual value when you have had enough and decide to sell. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Spargo Report post Posted March 30, 2006 3.0L is the motor to turbo also... Conrad, what do you know about locking the vanos in the 3.2L and running alpha-N? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gus 5 Report post Posted March 30, 2006 3L m3 is easy the best way to go about things...going for under 20k these days....286hp outta box. then m20 turbo transplant. you would be badass Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
conrod 1 Report post Posted March 30, 2006 3.0L is the motor to turbo also... Conrad, what do you know about locking the vanos in the 3.2L and running alpha-N? spoken to someone who has done it. Hp goes to 350,fuel consumption goes from 30 mpg down to 10, low end torque is lost, and it costs a bunch of money! Thats why mine is going to be kept fairly stock. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
