2014 F20 .. recommendations for coding audio

[rogan 7]

Long time since I’ve posted.

2014 NZ 116i

CIC headunit with base audio. Door 4” and underseat 8” were powered directly from head unit. Likewise rear 4”.

 

i’ve upgraded the door speakers to Focal IS BMW 100L ( ie 4” and tweeter). Underseat speakers upgraded to Focal isub 4. underseats and door speakers are biamped off a Kicker Key 200.4.

Rears still running off the head unit.

Image Dynamics IDQ12 in the boot powered by a Kicker Key 500.1 with remote in the ciggie lighter socket.

Both amps use the hi level front output from the headunit.

The Kicker 200.4 has onboard DSP - auto time alignment, eq, crossovers but there’s no flexibility to customise.

Sound is good with auto eq but it’s a bit tweeter heavy and the mid bass / midrange is a bit out. From what I’ve read the base audio has boosted treble to make up for the lack of tweeters. Looking for someone in Auckland who can code and adjust the setting to remove the treble boost.

At the same time I’d like to get the start-up legal disclaimer removed.

spoke to Audiocity but they didn’t inspire confidence. Spoke to Autogravity but although they could code, they needed me to supply the codes to change.

Any recommendations. Any help much appreciated.

Edited January 15 by rogan

[rogan 7]

Found this relating to a 2014 F10:

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/threads/bmw-audio-coding-non-most.437890/post-5939879

“There is one setting delivering a useful output:
Coding: Hifi, internal amp, audio offset on, audio var 2, audio profile 1”

Still trying to find something on a F20.

[Olaf 3317]

IMHO you're on the right track.  I recall reading about this on a UK site... although it lacks the specific coding detail you seek, \ take a read down to the section "OTHER USEFUL BMW AUDIO INFORMATION AND UPGRADE OPTIONS." - outlines the disadvantages of Base Audio and it's attendant equalisation, and possible approaches.   Hope that helps.
 https://www.audiofile-incar.co.uk/audio-upgrades/bmw-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-and-x-series 

Also, anything that @Neal doesnt know about high quality integration with BMW audio systems probably isn't worth knowing!  He may be able to suggest something.

[Neal 544]

For the coding there is a straight forward phone app called BimmerCode which is quite safe to use. In expert mode the audio settings can be changed and even in normal mode there is a button to code the unit for “hifi” profile. 
 

Just check that it can code cic based audio ( bimmerpost forums suggest it does )

base audio in nbt has both basss and treble boosts to compensate for the 6.5” woofers and dual cone door speakers. Hifi has various profiles depending on model so worth trying various types. I think on the f20 you may get more cabin gain on the sub bass than larger models.

It’s worth your while getting a measurement mic and an app call REW that has an RTA and can run aomesome frequency sweeps to see what the treble profile looks like. Then try the amplifier variatants listed in Rogans link.

You can also check the time alignment on your amp to see how close it.

One thing to check on your underseat woofers, BMW reverses polarity on one side in their wiring on some models. It’s working having the focals subs in phase.

You may also need to flip them out of phase with your door speakers depending on your crossover slopes and that way you get a summed transition from bass to mids rather than a null at the crossing point .

 

 

 

[rogan 7]

Thanks Olaf & Neal.

Bimmercode or bimmerutility??

I downloaded bimmercode and opened the demo. When I go to supported coding options for F20, audio needs hu_nbt, but I think mine is hu_champ

Price wise, by the time I get a BT dongle thingy, I’m most of the way to the bimmerutility licence but then need to get the enet cable.

Regarding phase changes,  I tried flipping both teeeters out of phase, flipping a midrange, flipping an underseat. All sounded better wired in phase.

The kicker key amp has a one auto set up button. There’s no way to adjust TA/dsp manually. Realistically I can only use gains to adjust the fader between underseat and doors. The door components have a basic passive xover with 0/-3db option only. Have them at -3. 
Although the amp has very limited tuning, I’m quite happy with that having spent endless hours tuning previous car stereos. Inability to tinker will hopefully cure my upgraditis.

 

 

Edited January 24 by rogan

[Neal 544]

Sounding more like bimmer utility then.

For an enet cable aliexpress will ship within 10 days . I tried a trademe supplier to try and get one quick , but took the same amount of time as aliexpress typically takes at 4x price.

Worth checking on the phase , l have my woofers out of phase with mids . Summed better with the filters I’m running. If the focal tweeters are like mine the detail improved futher after about 20 hours of use. 
 

 

 

 

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

@rogan remove option code 810 Australian

Version and that will take away the legal disclaimer notice at start up.

[rogan 7]

Bought the dongle and a bimmercode licence.

Changed to hifi, changed to sa_audio_variant1.
Didn’t affect the headunit output level - and there was no option for internal /external amplifier.

There’s 4 eq options: default and sa_audio_variant1 to 3. All have slight differences but none are spectacular. At the moment i’ve settled on variant1 with a slight amp gain increase on the underseat speakers. I need to have a better play with the sub to get it blending better - thinking lower crossover and reduce amp gain.

Really happy with Bimmercode. Simple to hook up and use. Made the normal changes, and have changed a few things on the wifes car.

Trying to figure out how to increase the indicator flash from three to five. My options are “einmal” which flashes 3 times (!!!) or custom value. Tried “04” but that did nothing. Might have another play.and try  “dreimal” which is 3 flahes on some other models. On the wifes F10 those options are in English and numerical: so much easier.

Edited March 23 by rogan

[Neal 544]

Try the kicker amps with a HPF of 60hz on the focals . You may have a dip from 60hz - 100hz range as often boot subs will start rolling off at an acoustic 60hz when set for 80.

The 8 inch focals are a good size to get down a bit lower and match the transition point of the sub bass.

I think you said the TA on the kicker was automatic. Perhaps redo the auto eq and Ta with the mic held at drivers seat position in front of your nose for the focal channels. Phase alignment of the bass from those speakers will maximise their combined output and bring up the spl on those mid bass frequencies. This can be done with time shifting one side.

 

Here is a phase chart . If speakers are in phase you get a summing effect which is louder. If they are out of phase they have a cancelling effect and the spl drops 

( graph from audiofrog )

 

 

 

 

[rogan 7]

Ive got the sub out of phase. It was cancelling out the underseats. Im still doing the odd tweak but happy with where i’m at.

 

need to figure out an enclosure for the sub. Current enclsure is solid but doesnt work practically with the boot space.

In future i may move the tweeter from door sails to bottom of A piilar facing up into windscreen.

 

 

[rogan 7]

Got bitten by upgraditis.

found an Audison Ap8.9 bit dsp on trademe. 8x 35rms (no preamp output). 9th channel is sub preout.

https://audison.com/product/ap8-9-bit/

so thinking channel each for front tweeters and mids 4x35rms. Bridge channels for underseats 130rms x2. Preout to sub in boot. Rear speakers  running off headunit.

Sub: - 60

underseats: 60 - 175

mids: 175 - 5k

tweeters: 5k +

 

other option is use it as 8x 35rms to include the rears. If the 35rms isn’t enough on the underseats then can add something like this

https://www.superimports.co.nz/brands/zeroflex/zeroflex-efx-4-5/

would bridge so 160rms available to each underseat.

or use my existing Kicker key 200.4 to run 50rms to underseats and mids. Note the 200.4 is only 4ohm stable and not bridgeable.
The dsp only has speaker outputs (no preout) on the 8 channels so any add on amp needs hi level inputs.

Currently have 50rms to each underseat which is more than enough for me but they play 60ish-500hz so they screw the sq when given power. 

once i can limit them to 60-175ish then i wonder if 35rms will be enough or whether I’ll want more.

 

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

Edited August 16 by rogan

[Neal 544]

Those focal isubs are quite efficient so you may get away with 35 rms. But personally I like the sound of 80 rms as you’d get nice clean peaks to 160 watts. Also remember the focals have a long term power rating of 90 rms so you won’t push them to distructive  limits.

35 rms on the 4 inch door speakers is plenty. Audsion should have nice clean amplification.

[rogan 7]

Audison AP8.9bit is now in the car and working well.

My one piece of major advice is:

Never ever ever update Audison DSP firmware unless there is no other option !!!

When first installed, I updated the firmware thinking that would give me the latest and greatest hardware and also remove all previous user setting. The firmware failed and it's taken me most of the last 2 weeks to get it back running. I talked to Audison (Italy), and the Aussie Audison rep - neither could fix the issue. Researched google - lots of Audison firmware update horror stories; thought I had bricked it. Not idea why, but when I used a different laptop I was able to update the firmware and get it running.

Set up:

Channels 1& 2 - tweeters 35rms x2

Channels 3&4 - midrange 35rms x2

Channels 5&6 and 7&8 bridged - midbass 130rms x2

Channel 9 - pre out to sub.

Haven't started tuning it yet, just got it running. Sounds decent already. Interesting it analysed the base headunit's front output and decided it didn't need de-equalisation.

 

 

 

 

 

[Neal 544]

Great that you managed to sort firmware, some PCs just don’t like serial connection over usb drivers. 
No doubt you are liking the impact from powering up the underseat positions.

Edited September 3 by Neal

[rogan 7]

One more piece of the puzzle nearly finished. Sub not in cos the bolts were too short to reach the T nuts. Will be at Bunnings first thing tomorrow.

 

[rogan 7]

Anyone have any experience with wideband drivers. I’m intrigued by these

https://www.esbcar.com/3000-series-components/3-65

 

$250-$300 for a pair 

I have my tweeters in the dash corners at the bottom of the A-pillars vertically on axis and horizontally slightly toed in. Very happy with the way they sound.
But not really happy with the midrange in the doors as the left and right have really different sound profiles due to location and axis.

So thinking the ESBs in custom pods in the bottom of the A pillar angled like the tweeters are now. Pods would be vented into the dash. If they can play 200hz up and tweeterless then I can go straight from the underseat 8s to these and get all vocals point sourced. 
 

Think next step is to get a 40mm length of 75mm PVC pipe and get an idea of how they’d fit into the base of the A-pillar.

 

Edited October 8 by rogan

[Neal 544]

That should be a nice sounding solution. Would give an amazing front stage. Only thing to check on crossover point is how low they would go in a sealed pod. Looking like they are well suited to IB mounts going by the QTS value ( stiffer cone suspension) in a sealed enclosure they may peak higher hz  spl wise , but struggle a bit to get down  to 200 hertz. See is you’ve got an option to vent the back into the front pillar trim.

Otherwise you can model the response of the wide bands using this software.

https://www.subwoofer-builder.com/WinISD.htm