Oil Additives and Oil Types - what to use and what not to use.

[kiwipetrolhead 1]

Regarding an earlier post by "jjs" - "E36 M50 - What oil is the best to use?", he asked about what is a good conventional petroleum oil to use and what oil additive to use. Someone else suggested Motor Up additive. I commented that I have always been sceptical of oil additives. I have seen tests done with various additives, and compared to straight oil, the results really were a bit of an eye opener. In particular, Wynns seems to be a product to use if you want to wear your engine out really fast! (If the tests I witnessed are anything to go by.) Of course, I have not seen tests performed with all oil additives out there, or all oils even, but I have a bit of a thing about maximising engine life so lubrication is a topic of special interest to me. (That's why I 'prime' my oil filter when I replace it. I bet you hadn't heard about this idea before!)

Anyway,with regard to oil additives, I just read "Off The Shelf Additives" which a section in an article about conventional oil versus synthetic oil found at http://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/techarticl...nthetic_faq.htm

Here it is...

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Off The Shelf Additives

There are countless over the counter oil additives on the market, as there have been for a number of years. In recent years a number of companies have appeared on the scene with huge national television advertising campaigns, racecar sponsorship, and more, all designed to make the consumer believe that the products really work and you are doing yourself a favor by adding these to your car. The fact is that these products are not necessary, do very little to help your engine, and in many cases may actually do more harm than good. The major car companies do not endorse any of these products and in fact your owner’s manual will undoubtedly advise you to avoid them.

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Personally, I'd much rather invest a bit extra cash in synthetic oil for my engine rather than using cheaper high-quality conventional oil and an additive that might or might not be beneficial.

If a metal part is worn out, adding some sort of additive won't 'fill in' the worn bits - no additive can fix worn cylinders, broken rings or worn out cam lobes and followers. If it could, it'd probably also fill in the oil gaps and seize your engine. Yes, I know some people use an additive as a preventive measure rather than an attempt to fix worn out engines, thinking that it will prolong the life of the engine. But I think you are just being ripped off. If you really want to prolong the life of your engine, don't rev it hard until it is up to normal operating temp, and service it regularly - ideally using synthetic oil, and replace the air cleaner regularly too. My engines last very well, yet I feed them plenty of fat once they are hot - I never hesitate to continually run my engines on the rev limiter around a race track so long as it is up to normal operating temperature.

Finally, if you just do normal everyday running and never stress or rev your engine hard or load it up (i.e. towing) then good quality conventional oil is just fine. But I leave Mobil 1 in my engine for twice as long as I would if I was to use conventional oil because it does last lots longer. So if you do that too, it will actually save you money using synthetic, so long as your engine has no oil leaks.

Cheers

Paul

[bravo 35]

Interesting. There is also a school of thought that says old engines (such as e30's) that have been run all their lives on mineral should dtay on mineral. What's your take on that?

[Palazzo 477]

I just read a report on this, a test was done on NY city taxi cabs, all with newly rebuilt engines. Run on different oils/change periods etc, after 60k miles, they were stripped and measured for wear. End result, no measurable difference in the wear on each engine.

For what it's worth, using Mobil 1 in one of our cars resulted in oil consumption of about 1/4 of a litre every1200-1500kms, going back to mineral oil has taken it back to no measurable oil consumption.

[kiwipetrolhead 1]

Interesting. There is also a school of thought that says old engines (such as e30's) that have been run all their lives on mineral should dtay on mineral. What's your take on that?

Yes, I have heard this too. I am not sure why though - it might be more to do with potential to cause oil leaks than anything else. For example, I ran my old '83 Renault Fuego on Mobil 1 for a while but it leaked oil and was costing me too much, so I switched back to conventional oil (that all the previous owners would undoubtedly have been using before I bought it) and over time the oil leaks slowed until finally they stopped all together. I never touched a single gasket or seal in the entire time. In fact, I have had this car for 8 years now and have still never replaced one single gasket or seal on it.

As for my old '83 e21 323i, I used Mobil 1 in that too, even though it was an oil burner when I bought the car 7.5 years ago (and again, previous owners probably used conventional oil in it before I put Mobil 1 in). I thrashed it a bit, including a few blasts around Manfeild, all on Mobil 1, and it lasted quite well really considering its state when I bought it. It was burning quite a lot of oil when I bought it, but it lasted more than another 80,000 Ks on Mobil 1 before I finally decides to do the engine up, which I am doing right now. The main thing that annoyed me was the spark plugs fouling within no time, but the engine itself was NOT smoking more and more, and even as it was when I pulled it out it would still pass the new WOF emission standard. When I get the engine back up and running, I'll run it on cheap oil for about 500 Ks, then change to Mobil 1 again and be ready for lots more trouble-free Ks.

Anyway, the only reason I can think of why not to switch to synthetic for any engine (in an e30 or anything else) it that it MIGHT create oil leaks. But it might not too.

Cheers

Paul

[kiwipetrolhead 1]

I just read a report on this, a test was done on NY city taxi cabs, all with newly rebuilt engines. Run on different oils/change periods etc, after 60k miles, they were stripped and measured for wear. End result, no measurable difference in the wear on each engine.

For what it's worth, using Mobil 1 in one of our cars resulted in oil consumption of about 1/4 of a litre every1200-1500kms, going back to mineral oil has taken it back to no measurable oil consumption.

Yes, that makes perfect sense of course.

NY Taxis aren't exactly doing a lot of stress work. As I said in my first post, normal oil is fine for normal work. But if you like to drive your BMW like it deserves to be driven, then better oil is a good investment, and it lasts longer so it is actually cheaper in the long run. Also, a slight bit of oil burning is not a harmful thing - a bit of lubrication to the top compression ring can only be a good thing.

Aside from all that, any modern engine will last a hell of a long time on normal oil if you service it regularly and drive it normally. For example, a 2-litre Toyota NZ Courier van engine will happily do well over ONE MILLION Ks without any problem. Why? Because it is clocking up the Ks when it is constantly hot. (As I said in another post, most wear takes place on start-up.) Taxis in big cities usually run 24/7, so their engines will last too (hence the results you posted).

But I do lots of short running, cold starts and high rev stuff, as well as towing, so I used Mobil 1.

Cheers

Paul

Yes, I have heard this too. I am not sure why though - it might be more to do with potential to cause oil leaks than anything else. For example, I ran my old '83 Renault Fuego on Mobil 1 for a while but it leaked oil and was costing me too much, so I switched back to conventional oil (that all the previous owners would undoubtedly have been using before I bought it) and over time the oil leaks slowed until finally they stopped all together. I never touched a single gasket or seal in the entire time. In fact, I have had this car for 8 years now and have still never replaced one single gasket or seal on it.

As for my old '83 e21 323i, I used Mobil 1 in that too, even though it was an oil burner when I bought the car 7.5 years ago (and again, previous owners probably used conventional oil in it before I put Mobil 1 in). I thrashed it a bit, including a few blasts around Manfeild, all on Mobil 1, and it lasted quite well really considering its state when I bought it. It was burning quite a lot of oil when I bought it, but it lasted more than another 80,000 Ks on Mobil 1 before I finally decides to do the engine up, which I am doing right now. The main thing that annoyed me was the spark plugs fouling within no time, but the engine itself was NOT smoking more and more, and even as it was when I pulled it out it would still pass the new WOF emission standard. When I get the engine back up and running, I'll run it on cheap oil for about 500 Ks, then change to Mobil 1 again and be ready for lots more trouble-free Ks.

Anyway, the only reason I can think of why not to switch to synthetic for any engine (in an e30 or anything else) it that it MIGHT create oil leaks. But it might not too.

Cheers

Paul

P.S.

After only 60,000 Ks of hot running, even if the oil was not changed even once in that time, you'd expect to find no measurable wear. (The exception might be if they were Ladas or Humber 80s.)

So use cheap oil and save yourself lots of cash - just make sure you keep your engine running 24/7!

Paul

[ED1RTY 2]

Whenever i do an oil change i use 3/4 can of STP engine flush leave the car running for 5 mins then drain the oil, once the oil is drained i tip the remaining 1/4 can through the system just to pic up any niggly bits that were missed. Once that has drained out i change the filter, replace the sump plug and fill it up with 3.5 - 4 litres of pennzoil 5W-30 full synthetic oil followed by half - 3/4 of a bottle of Morey's heavy duty oil stabiliser, leaving the last 1/4 for any top ups needed between changes... although theres never usually a need for a top up as my engine dont leak or burn any oil.

I have no faith in Motor up, or any of the other over rated highly priced additives. I stick to what i know and it seems to work fine for me, and as stated above I only give my car shite (and lots of it) when its at its normal operating temp.

[Carl 3]

There's no reason why you can't just switch from using mineral oil to synthetic other than sticking synthetic in to a mineral engine supposedly loosens the mineral deposits and causes blockages but a good flush should resolve that and so long as you use the right grade for your engines state then leaking shouldn't be a problem. I use semi synthetic since my current engine is nearly 20 years old but with a rebuild just done on a replacement i'll be sticking to synthetic afterwards.

Of course this assumes your oil gaskets don't need replacing and your rings aren't f**ked

[kiwipetrolhead 1]

Whenever i do an oil change i use 3/4 can of STP engine flush leave the car running for 5 mins then drain the oil, once the oil is drained i tip the remaining 1/4 can through the system just to pic up any niggly bits that were missed. Once that has drained out i change the filter, replace the sump plug and fill it up with 3.5 - 4 litres of pennzoil 5W-30 full synthetic oil followed by half - 3/4 of a bottle of Morey's heavy duty oil stabiliser, leaving the last 1/4 for any top ups needed between changes... although theres never usually a need for a top up as my engine dont leak or burn any oil.

I have no faith in Motor up, or any of the other over rated highly priced additives. I stick to what i know and it seems to work fine for me, and as stated above I only give my car shite (and lots of it) when its at its normal operating temp.

Ah yes, Morey's. That's been around for many years and it is one product that some mechanics will actually use. It's good stuff to put on your cam lobes after a cam job (or head or engine job) so there is no friction on the first start-up.

As for engine flushing to "pic up any niggly bits that were missed" - you mean like the bits of broken rings and things?

I have seen people use high detergent oil (for diesel engines), or a mix of that with kerosene, used to do an engine flush. They drain the oil and put this in, then idle for a while then drain and change the filter at that point. One guy did it on his VW Beetle one time and about a year later he did an engine job!

Personally I have never bothered with a flush. If there is crap in the rocker cover area, I take it off and wash it out, and on rare occasions I have poured a bit of fresh oil in while the sump plug is still out to "pic up any niggly bits that were missed", but that's about all.

Paul

[ducatiss 1]

I remember a few years back that I ruined a perfectly good Audi engine at a genuine 150,000 km's. I bought it 100 K and it had perfectly good compressions etc. At 120 I used Slick50 and by 150 the engine was ruined. Now I cant say for sure that it was slick50 that did it but the damage was consistant with the bottom end starving for oil despite the engine being clean internally clean. Since that I have run my jap vehicles on Mobil One (which I am not completely convinced on) and my E30 on good quality mineral oil. Frequent changes and not flogging the engine while cold seem to be the bset one can do to prolong its life.

[my_e36 43]

There was a lawsuit in US against Slick50 on the effect of PTFE (part of what's in Slick50) to the engines that used it.

PTFE is the stuff that they make non-stick pans and if my memory serves me right, they are actually fine metal flakes. Probably that's what contributed to the death of your Audi engine.

I would avoid anything that ask you to "shake before use" or contain PTFE as ingredient. My Civic was dealer serviced (i know... too lazy to lift a spanner) 6 month/10k for the last 10 years. It's now almost 200k and engine is still feel strong as new. Never had any addictive in its life except for injector cleaner.

[kiwipetrolhead 1]

There was a lawsuit in US against Slick50 on the effect of PTFE (part of what's in Slick50) to the engines that used it.

PTFE is the stuff that they make non-stick pans and if my memory serves me right, they are actually fine metal flakes. Probably that's what contributed to the death of your Audi engine.

I would avoid anything that ask you to "shake before use" or contain PTFE as ingredient. My Civic was dealer serviced (i know... too lazy to lift a spanner) 6 month/10k for the last 10 years. It's now almost 200k and engine is still feel strong as new. Never had any addictive in its life except for injector cleaner.

Yip, any modern engine (about 1990 onwards) will last a million Ks or more if it is treated right, and that includes NOT using additives.

Paul