m52-52 into e30

[bimmerbaz 1]

Has anybody done this to an E30 with good results. Would be keen to see some pics and find out pros and cons.

Cheers

[Steve K-B 51]

Has anybody done this to an E30 with good results. Would be keen to see some pics and find out pros and cons.

Cheers

For us people who dont under stand BMW talk (the minority), What engine is it?? Thakns

[Gus 5]

the 2.8 L from an e36 or z3 or e39

would be an awesome swap, esp with the alloy block. go in a 328i e36 manual, they go pretty well so in a lighter car it would be super cool...its mainly the torque that makes that difference

search e30tech and r3vlimited.com, heaps of US guys have done it

[m_power 0]

I found this write up on the net and it seemed pretty good. Here is the write up, everything you need, good luck.

First I would like to give a word of advise to anyone

doing this swap. If your main goal is making your E30

fast, do not do a 2.5L swap.

Trust me you will be disappointed. In my opinion the

smallest engine you should put in your E30 is a 2.8L

M52. The simplest and probably most economical engine to

swap is a 3.0L S50 engine out of a 95 M3 primarily

because it already comes with most of the OBD I hardware

you will need for the swap.

The only problem with 95 S50 motors is that they are

becoming old and it is very hard to find one in good low

mileage condition for a reasonable price. You might want

to consider an option of building a high compression

2.8L engine that will perform on par with a 3.0L and

cost less. One good way of building a low budget high

performance 2.8L is purchasing a 2.5L M50 engine out of

a 525I (so you can get your oil pan) and stroking it.

There are plenty of 2.8L core engines out there for as

little as $200. One trick of making it high compression

is reusing the 2.5L pistons (only if in great condition

with new rings) with 2.8L rods and 2.8L crank. The

combination will give you a compression ratio of around

11.25:1 according to my estimates. With M3 cams (ether

3.0L or 3.2L) the engine dynos at around 240-250

crankshaft horsepower with stock injectors. Upgrading

injectors would probably make even more power because

the engine leans out and stops making power after 6200

rpm. One downside to this high compression is you have

to use the best gas money can buy. Sometimes in hot

weather the engine will ping even on a 91 gas so if 92

or higher octane gas is not available in your state you

probably shouldn’t consider this option.

Things that need to be modified:

Brake Booster: Use an E21 320I brake booster. Some

people use 325IX brake boosters but 320I boosters are

cheaper and allow you to use your stock master cylinder.

Note how the fins are ground down to clear the brake

booster.To make the 320I brake booster work in your E30

you will need to cut the shaft off to the same length as

your E30 booster, grind it down to the same thickness

and thread it with a 10X1.5mm dye.

Be careful here, if you screw it up you will need to go

out and get another booster, the shafts are non

replaceable. Don’t forget to grind off some of the fins

on the back of the intake manifold to clear the brake

booster.

Transmission: There is a bunch of different

transmissions you can use in this swap. Some people keep

their E30 Getrag 260s but it requires fabricating a

custom transmission mount and your shifter will be

offset to the right by about 15-degrees. My favorite

transmission to use is S5D320Z out of a 95M3, 96-00 328

E36 E46, 96-99 M3. The reason I like them best is

probably the fact that you c+9+an use a 135mm guibo on

them and they are rated for 320hp, which should give you

plenty of room if you are planning future modifications.

S5D320Z transmissions are not the lightest but they are

the strongest. You can use your stock 325 or 91 318I IS

transmission mount with any E36 transmission. Don’t

forget to use E21 320I transmission mounts (they are

stronger then e30 or E36 mounts) and weld two cups to

the transmission mount to prevent the engine and tranny

from moving around too much and hitting the radiator

(see pic).

Transmission Mount Reinforcement. The shifter arm has to

be out of an E36 328 or M3 along with the aluminum arm

that connects to the top of the tranny.

Drive shaft: If you are using a ZF S5D320Z transmission

you will have to use a drive shaft out of an E30 M3, 98

M3 (U-joint type only), 87-88 325E or 96-98 E36 328. Use

the E30 center support mounted backwards on E36 drive

shafts.

Clutch: The ultimate clutch is of course E36 M3 but some

people on the budget use an E36 328 clutch (it is the

same diameter as M3 clutch). Those who use a 328 clutch

can also use a flywheel out of an E46 323I or a 2.8L Z3.

It is virtually identical to a 328 flywheel but lighter.

Firewall: Cut some of the insulation off the heater

blower motor cover. Some people strip it completely but

I take a long knife, put it parallel to the firewall and

remove some material.

Do not get rid of the rubber drain on the passenger side

of the firewall that drains the water from the wiper

motor compartment or you will end up with water in your

spark plug holes every time you wash the car. Bend the

heater pipes towards the driver’s side of the car and

down about an inch to clear the intake manifold.

Engine mounting: The engine can be installed completely

assembled with all accessories except the front harmonic

balancer, A/C bracket or A/C compressor.

I prefer to install the engines completely stripped

since it makes it easier to connect the heater hoses .

For the aluminum mounts you have to use the E36 arms.

The rubber mounts are out of an E24 E28 (part number 11

81 1 132 793). The mounts have to be mounted in the

outside mounding holes of the sub frame.

Note the aluminum spacer under the engine mount.It is a

good idea to reinforce the sub frame if you are using a

3.2L motor. Some times the engine mounting points rip

out from a lot of torque.

Cooling System: The radiator has to be out of an 88+ 325

E30. Some people use E36 radiators but if you plan on

using a mechanical fan E30 radiator will give you more

clearance. Speaking of clearance it is very important to

reinforce the transmission mounts or the first time you

slam on your brakes the fan will end up destroying your

radiator. The fan clutch has to be stock E30 with a

9-blade fan. Do not use an 11-blade fan because it will

give you less radiator to fan clearance. The overflow

tank has to be out of an 88+ E30 as well. Don’t forget

to upgrade the thermostat housing and the water pump to

the metal kinds on your M50 motor. The bottom radiator

hose off the M50 motor will need to be cut down to fit

in E30. The top hose you can get from any auto part

store.

Note how little clearance there is between the fan and

the radiator, only about 7mm.Just look for a long

radiator hose with a 90-degree bend. The heater hoses

connect the same way they were on your E30 (the long

hose under the intake manifold goes to the top inlet and

the short hose that connects to the cylinder head goes

to the bottom inlet), do not eliminate the bypass valves

(recall items).

Lubrication System: The oil pan has to be out of an M50

powered E34 525I. You will also need to get the pickup

tube with a gasket and the oil dipstick. E36 dipstick

can be modified to fit but it will not show you the oil

level correctly. Do not forget to safety wire the oil

pump or at least locktight the sprocket nut. Drill a

hole through the oil pump shaft and the bolt, insert a

stainless steel wire through the hole and tie it up. M50

engines are known for the oil pump sprocket bots to come

loose.

Oil coolers are also a good idea for the track. Oil

temps get to about 240+ degrees if you drive your car

hard enough.

A/C: Just about every town has a shop that will

fabricate customs A/C hoses. When you get your engine

from a junkyard try to get the A/C hoses with it. Custom

hose shops will be able to connect the E36 A/C hose

connectors to your existing E30 hoses. You can also get

some fittings from your local hardware store and clamp

the hoses together yourself. Don’t forget to flash out

your system to get rid of all R12 oil. Use PAG oil only

with your E36 compressor or it will not last you very

long.

Differential: The best ratio for 3.0L or 3.2L cars is

3.25 and the best ratio for a 2.8L or a 2.5L is 3.46.

3.25 differentials can be found in E28 525e 535I E24

635. 3.46s can be found in same cars but are more rare.

The output shafts and the rear cover have to be swapped

to make the differentials work in E30. You can also get

a rear cover out of an M Coupe. The M Coupe covers lower

the differential oil temperatures and look very cool

behind your E30.

Exhaust: Exhaust is truly something that should be left

to a professional unless you are an experienced welder.

You can use the stock E36 cats out of a 92-95 325 or M3

but the right side pipe will need to be modified to

clear the control arm bushing mount.

As you can see the right side exhaust pipe is still very

close to the control arm bushing bracket. In this case

there is only about 5mm of clearance.

The O2 sensor mounting port interferes with the frame

reinforcement behind the transmission mount. You can cut

a chunk out of the brace to make the O2 sensor fit and

reinforce the brace by welding it to the transmission

mount with a couple of pipes.

96+ exhaust pipes are larger in diameter then 92-95 and

pose some clearance issues. 96+ exhaust pipes are bigger

in diameter on the outside but they are double walled so

in reality they don’t flow more then 92-95. OEM pipes

are stainless steel and a very hard to weld unless you

are equipped to weld stainless steel. Stock cast iron

headers from 92-95 can be used.

You will need to make some 5 mm spacers for the engine

mounts to raise the engine so the pipes clear the sub

frame. It is also a good idea to remove the studs out of

the headers and use the bolts to mount your exhaust,

makes it way easier to get the pipes in there. The left

exhaust pipe will need to be flattened out to clear the

sway bar.

You can also use stainless steel headers from 96+ E36;

they look way better then the rusty cast iron headers.

To use the 96+ headers buy two O2 sensor plugs from your

BMW Dealer (originally install on a 98 323IS) and weld

up the air injection ports. The muffler is up to you but

the pipes to it will have to be custom made.

Steering: When you get your engine try to get the power

steering pump and hoses with it. It is a good idea to

replace your rack when you are swapping the engine. The

rack in an M50 powered car is almost impossible to

replace without considerably lifting up an engine or

dropping the sub frame, the oil pan sits very close to

the steering rack.

Suspension: Nothing needs to be done to suspension

unless you want to improve the handling of your E30. M50

engine is slightly heavier then M20 (around 60lbs

heavier). Although 60lbs doesn’t sound like much you

will be able to feel it. Thicker sway bars do wonders on

M50 E30s.

Wiring and Electrical: The best wiring harness to use is

out of a manual 93-94 325I due to its simplicity,

although it is not that hard to modify a wiring harness

from an automatic car or a car with traction control and

EWS. The process is as simple as laying the harness out

on a table with a diagram in front of you and

eliminating anything that is not necessary. If you ended

up with a harness out of an automatic car simply cut all

of the wires out of the engine harness that belong to

the automatic transmission computer. Automatic

transmission computer is wired directly to the engine

computer harness; the only wire that needs to be

modified is a “brown/black wire pin 26 transmission ECUâ€

need to be connected to any “red/white wire on the main

relayâ€. ECU has to be out of a 93-94 325I with the Bosch

part number ending in 413. You can use an ECU out of a

95 325I or a 95 M3 but you will need a special chip that

eliminates EWS. To make the E36 harness plug in to your

E30 you will need to make an adapter. To make an adapter

you will need to get a wiring harness connector off the

E36 (body side) and an engine harness connector off an

E30 (engine side). See the excel spreadsheet for pin

assignments. The coolant temp sensor for the ECU has to

be out of an E36 and the coolant sensor for the temp

gage has to be out of E30 (single pin sensor brown).

Alternator has to be out of any 6-cyl E36, I prefer to

use 80AMP alternators but if you have a powerful stereo

you might consider using a 140AMP alternator (it will

suck up more engine power though). Starter has to be out

of any E36, Z3, E46 323 328, E34 E39 or E30 318is. Don’t

forget to the engine ground strap, with M50 engine it

mounts on the passenger side of the car.

E30 Wiring harness connector Color 91 318is Color

325I IS E36 Wiring Harness Connector Color

(body side) (engine side)

Pin 1 (alternator charge) blue blue Pin 25 blue

Pin 4 (coolant tem) red/white brn/violet Pin 12

green/gray

Pin 5 (oil pressure) brn/green brn/grn Pin 23

green

Pin 6 (Diagnostic Connector) grn/wht grn/wht Pin

22 Grn/wht

Pin 7 (Ignition switch) green green Pin 21 green

Pin 8 (fuel consumption) white wht/black Pin 24

wht/black

Pin 9 (engine speed) black black Pin 20 black

Pin 12 (check engine light) brown gray Pin 8 gray

Pin 13 (fuel pump) grn/violet grn/violet Pin 13

grn/violet

Pin 14 (speed signal input) black/wht black/wht

Pin 14 black/wht

Pin 15 (starter thin wire) black/grn black/grn Pin

15 black/yellow

Pin 18 (starter thicker wire) black/yellow

black/yellow Pin 18 black/yellow

Oil Level Sensor

Pin 10 Blue

Pin 16 Wht

Pin 2 Gray/Grn

Note: Wiring colors can

vary depending on model and year of

your E30 and E36 wiring harness.

On 325E the fuel consumption gage signal and the tach

signal connectors are in the glove box. Speed signal

wire from pin 14 E36 connector has to be connected

directly to the green plug on the back of your

instrument cluster. Thin (black/yellow pin 15 E36

connector) wire that goes to the starter can be left

disconnected. The starter will still work.

Edited May 18, 2007 by Bavarian Boy

[Guest Denny Crane]

Once I get off my ass and collate all the info I have, i'll post it.

[bimmerbaz 1]

Interesting, the more stuff i read the more you get confused. As far as i can see the standard m52 is about 141kw .

An m20 325 is 110kw so if i tweek the m52 it must be worth it .

[Gus 5]

m20 2.5 is 120kw, around 169hp

m52 2.8 is 193hp

not huge, my m20 is prob around 180-190, but cant hang with 2.8 e36, even in a heavier car

m20 - 222nM or so

m52 - around 280 nM

its all low down in the rev range where e36's pull, when its up high its pretty even

m52 in e30 would be super tough

with alloy block its not much heavier either, if any

[Gus 5]

My m52 2.8 is churning out 168 flywheel kW with NO internal mods, cams and inlet should see 190kW, By the way it is in an E36 chassis which is a MUCH nicer chassis.

Can't see the point of dicking around and putting a good engine in an ordinary chassis when you can get a decent E36 for probably less than the sum of the bits and labour

true point, but e30s are badass

recently heard of a certain members new car, 328i manual, NZ new, around 7k....long way from home though

[Gus 5]

What ever badass means in your language my usual translation is "subjective crap".

Yes E30's look nice but they were never a good chassis in their day except the M3.

The E36 on the other hand is a very good chassis that can be worked even firther into a great chassis - get a decent amount of power into one these and they are serious fun.

ASK the guys in Clubsport Commodores that get passed or Flash Falcons that fall off the road trying to get away from a standard looking sedan.

is that why both myself and a manual e36 2.8 are doing exactly the same times around taupo track? im hardly highly modified, running on 205 street rubber. not knocking e36s they are good cars, but not really that masty worthy in terms of being a great chassis

[westy 614]

What do Commies and Falcons have to do with anything?

E36 is not a great chassis...e46 is.

M52 into e30 is a good idea its a good strong engine in a light chassis, wheres the down side?

fwiw according to what I have

m10-83 kg

m40 83 kg

m42 100 kg

m20 117 kg

m50 136 kg

m52 118 kg

m54 126 kg

s50 152 kg

[hybrid 1043]

Bare in mind at all times while reading US forums that they are left hand drive and their s50 is more than likely to be the s50b30US .. which is and entirely different engine to the s50b30. It can get really confusing sometimes what information your actually reading.

[m325i 709]

I reckon!

Whats the difference between a e30 m3 chasis and normal m3?

E36 chasis is nothing to spank over.

While e30 chasis may have some weak points, whats the problem with it?

e30 > e36, everyone knows this

[westy 614]

Figures for euro s50 not s52 Josh.s50US=m50, s52 = m52 (US iron block).

E30 isnt better than e36 just not as bad as some think.

E46 is a much better balanced car.E90 probably even better again.

Just too many interfering electronics with post e36.

Edited May 20, 2007 by westy

[OLLIE 26]

badass ....

someone or something who is so cool that their very presence is radiating with awesomeness.

Awesome to an extreme level, thereby leveraging unquestionable authority.

[hybrid 1043]

Figures for euro s50 not s52 Josh.s50US=m50, s52 = m52 (US iron block).

E30 isnt better than e36 just not as bad as some think.

E46 is a much better balanced car.E90 probably even better again.

Just too many interfering electronics with post e36.

sweet .. just warning folks when reading US forums things dont always apply to us.

[Guest Denny Crane]

What ever badass means in your language my usual translation is "subjective crap".

Yes E30's look nice but they were never a good chassis in their day except the M3.

The E36 on the other hand is a very good chassis that can be worked even firther into a great chassis - get a decent amount of power into one these and they are serious fun.

ASK the guys in Clubsport Commodores that get passed or Flash Falcons that fall off the road trying to get away from a standard looking sedan.

Oh goody, i've been looking to call you a wanker for a very long time.

[westy 614]

Like masturbating with a cheese grater....

slightly amusing but mostly painfull

[Jonty m50e30 0]

In my opinion, The m52 conversion would be a very nice transplant for an e30, the m52b28 is 193bhp and about 20kgs lighter than the 192bhp m50b25, the 52 however is vanos equipt which improves the torque curve quite dramatically providing better power delivery, there is some debate however in high reving situations such as a race car that the cast block of the M50 is more durable and vanos is a problem you don't need. Of course an s50/52 would be a better swap as suggested in the article but firstly find one in NZ and then pay for it, the M52 is a much more feesable swap. As for the chassis the e30 can be made to be a sensationally handling little car likewise the 36 I am not sure why we would be debating this?

At the end of the day an e30 can be modified to handle pretty much anything most drivers are capable of on public roads, to really discover any shortcommings in the e30 chassis I would imagine that the race track would be where this is apparent, and then of course you have to remember that the car and design is at least 16 years old (mine is 24 years old). I am happy to help with any info on the m52 swap as the same principles apply to the m50 it would be great to see this conversion done. I also have a M52b28 in an e46 and am pretty satisfied with the performance in a heavy car.

Oh and as the article says don't expect a fast car with a 2.5 conversion, I'll have to disagree with this, mine is fast enough to scare the shite out of me sometimes - or is that the poor driving - i'm not sure.