where can i find it???

[darkwolf 0]

Ummm, I quite like the idea of a 1UZ twin turbo - a couple of small high mount turbos and ironically probably easier to fit a downpipe that fitting headers on them. But its not BMW.

That's my 2c, and all those options are a lot of work.

Put an M Power badge on each of the two tappet covers. That'll make it BMW and from what I've heard adds like 10 HP each.

Depending on how much work you wanna put into the engine afterwards the majority of it may not end up being german anyway.

My main point was that I can't see the point in using a 1JZ when the UZ is obviously the superior motor. Which is almost universally correct. Why use a small capacity engine if you are only going to try to make it run higher power/torque anyway. Just use a larger capacity motor and then do the same things to it to gain more power again. Or leave it stock, have the same power/torque/fuel economy and choice (remembering that some cars Caldina GT-T's for example) don't like being turbo and using less than 98 Octane. You also tend to get better sound too IMHO.

Also probably requires less modifying like putting in intercoolers, getting new injectors etc. Less stress, more fun. Why wouldn't you?

[pureboiracer 0]

because its not a bmw motor. i want to keep it a german motor in a german car. doesnt matter if it means more f.ing round

[Apex 693]

Put an M Power badge on each of the two tappet covers. That'll make it BMW and from what I've heard adds like 10 HP each.

Depending on how much work you wanna put into the engine afterwards the majority of it may not end up being german anyway.

My main point was that I can't see the point in using a 1JZ when the UZ is obviously the superior motor. Which is almost universally correct. Why use a small capacity engine if you are only going to try to make it run higher power/torque anyway. Just use a larger capacity motor and then do the same things to it to gain more power again. Or leave it stock, have the same power/torque/fuel economy and choice (remembering that some cars Caldina GT-T's for example) don't like being turbo and using less than 98 Octane. You also tend to get better sound too IMHO.

Also probably requires less modifying like putting in intercoolers, getting new injectors etc. Less stress, more fun. Why wouldn't you?

The Toyota JZ engine is a performance engine with easy tune-ability, the UZ is a economy engine designed to move heavy cars. Generally The JZ would be considered a superior engine, especially as a "High" performance base.

[darkwolf 0]

because its not a bmw motor. i want to keep it a german motor in a german car. doesnt matter if it means more f.ing round

Fair enough. Again I think I didn't explain my point well enough. My suggestion was why not go for the higher capacity engine (BMW). In theory it gives you a larger base to work with. And while it will inevitably be more fuel hungry, it should also theoretically give you more return for your work.

The Toyota JZ engine is a performance engine with easy tune-ability, the UZ is a economy engine designed to move heavy cars. Generally The JZ would be considered a superior engine, especially as a "High" performance base.

What tells you that the JZ is a performance engine?

The "G" in the head only tells you the valve angles which I think from memory is about 52 degrees versus the "F" rated head on the UZ that is only 26 degrees. If it was truly an economy engine why would "most" JGTC Toyotas (now Super GT) use the 1UZ and I'd be hard pressed to find a team that uses the 2JZ engine at all. There is even a team that has replaced the JZ with a 3S.

[Apex 693]

Fair enough. Again I think I didn't explain my point well enough. My suggestion was why not go for the higher capacity engine (BMW). In theory it gives you a larger base to work with. And while it will inevitably be more fuel hungry, it should also theoretically give you more return for your work.

What tells you that the JZ is a performance engine?

The "G" in the head only tells you the valve angles which I think from memory is about 52 degrees versus the "F" rated head on the UZ that is only 26 degrees. If it was truly an economy engine why would "most" JGTC Toyotas (now Super GT) use the 1UZ and I'd be hard pressed to find a team that uses the 2JZ engine at all. There is even a team that has replaced the JZ with a 3S.

Good point, you probably have a far superior knowledge of automobiles than me, Im stating formed opinion on what I have read and have been told.

The 3UZ-??(or the 3S-GTE) in the GT500 cars is heavily modified and shares little with the road going version, we are talking road going engines here and we are not working with the massive budget and development team Toyota had when creating that race engine.

The 1UZ-FE was designed as an economy engine not a performance engine, all vehicles with the “FE†head were regarded as the economical version. The IG-FE vs 3S-GE in the Altezza’s for an example. They never put the engine in a vehicle with sports orientations nor did they offer it with a Manual gear box.

Bang for your buck the JZ engines are superior. How much would it cost to get a 1UZ-FE producing 300kw compared to a 1JZ-GTE??

Edited November 6, 2008 by Apex

[pureboiracer 0]

Fair enough. Again I think I didn't explain my point well enough. My suggestion was why not go for the higher capacity engine (BMW). In theory it gives you a larger base to work with. And while it will inevitably be more fuel hungry, it should also theoretically give you more return for your work.

what bmw motor would you suggest?

[JiB 0]

I'll add to the bickering about Japanese 8's. What about VH41DE? Best of the Nissan 8's, properly Quad cam, better flowing heads, blah blah. Easily stroked with VH45 crank Down side is bigger physical size due to big heads.

LeMans motor is based off this motor, may even use the same block IIRC.

I'm surprised CamB hasn't mentioned FJ20ET, indestructable motor similar to 4G63's. Designed to take massive boost with little work. Better flowing DOHC head than SR's, Solid head design, basically a detuned race motor. And you get the benefit of elegance and weight distribution of a 4cyl in an E30.

Personally, I the only reason I would use a BMW block would be because I wanted to race in the series. Or if the car was LHD. Just too much $$$ needed and too much restriction with exhuast/turbo space.

[CamB 48]

I'm surprised CamB hasn't mentioned FJ20ET, indestructable motor similar to 4G63's. Designed to take massive boost with little work. Better flowing DOHC head than SR's, Solid head design, basically a detuned race motor. And you get the benefit of elegance and weight distribution of a 4cyl in an E30.

Yeah very similar to an E30 M3 engine in many ways. Made for power.

I didn't suggest it mostly coz it wouldn't meet the requirement for massive power (although they can), and since its not BMW. OK, mostly because I forgot about it. They're getting hard (and expensive) to find too.

[darkwolf 0]

Good point, you probably have a far superior knowledge of automobiles than me, Im stating formed opinion on what I have read and have been told.

The 3UZ-??(or the 3S-GTE) in the GT500 cars is heavily modified and shares little with the road going version, we are talking road going engines here and we are not working with the massive budget and development team Toyota had when creating that race engine.

The 1UZ-FE was designed as an economy engine not a performance engine, all vehicles with the “FE†head were regarded as the economical version. The IG-FE vs 3S-GE in the Altezza’s for an example. They never put the engine in a vehicle with sports orientations nor did they offer it with a Manual gear box.

Bang for your buck the JZ engines are superior. How much would it cost to get a 1UZ-FE producing 300kw compared to a 1JZ-GTE??

I'm an accountant, not an engineer or mechanic. And I don't profess to have superior knowledge to anybody. I just have a strong point of view about these engines.

The economy engine as you refer to it doesn't exist. It merely refers to the head design. You'll also notice as JiB pointed out that an "F" head isn't a true DOHC head. Though I wouldn't go as far as to say that specifically, it is true that it runs a master and slave set up with one cam being driven of the other rather than running a secondary cam pulley.

The comparison between the 1JZ-GTE and 1UZ-FE for price is unwarranted. I reckon you could produce a higher power figure than the UZ with the JZ for the same price. Question is where would it come in and how useable would the engine be. The UZ produces power at a different place compared with the JZ. This is typical of a turbo vs NA powered comparison.

The JZ already runs a turbo set-up and as such would be cheaper to produce that power as with a UZ you would need to run a new ECU to correctly tune a boost map. Unless you wanna be a hondatard and just run everything on stock internals. The cheaper option for straight power is often a turbo upgrade. But built properly (as I understand the question to be here) the UZ would win hands down on both peak power and torque as well as delivery. Stock standard engines the UZ takes out torque and power depending on which year or engine is included.

As the saying goes, there is no replacement for displacement.

Though this is really a conversation for another thread as the OP has stated again and again that he wants to stay the course with BMW. Fair call too.

I'll add to the bickering about Japanese 8's. What about VH41DE? Best of the Nissan 8's, properly Quad cam, better flowing heads, blah blah. Easily stroked with VH45 crank Down side is bigger physical size due to big heads.

LeMans motor is based off this motor, may even use the same block IIRC.

I'm surprised CamB hasn't mentioned FJ20ET, indestructable motor similar to 4G63's. Designed to take massive boost with little work. Better flowing DOHC head than SR's, Solid head design, basically a detuned race motor. And you get the benefit of elegance and weight distribution of a 4cyl in an E30.

Personally, I the only reason I would use a BMW block would be because I wanted to race in the series. Or if the car was LHD. Just too much $$$ needed and too much restriction with exhuast/turbo space.

I'm not a big fan of the EJ20ET (or any boxer for that matter) from experiences close friends of mine have had they tend to be prone to failure. If the engine survives usually the drivetrain suffers. I was once told by a Winger Subaru mechanic that you put an under rated clutch in a subaru to protect the engine and other drivetrain components. It's cheaper to replace a budget clutch than rebuild a gearbox.

what bmw motor would you suggest?

I don't know much about the BMW engines as I've only just started looking into them. The fact is that I only know as much as I do about the Toyota engines as I have been in the past (still am) a total toyota fan boy. This excursion into the BMW is/was only to see if my fanboyness was warranted or whether every car is as good as a Toyota. So far I have decided that my 2 toyota's previously were PoS. If I had to suggest an engine it'd probably be the M62(TU)B44 that I'm running in my 540i. Reason being that stock standard you are starting with very good power/torque figures (210KW/420or440NM) a reliable compression ratio (10.0:1) and what I see as a very nice engine. Doesn't rev overly high but I'm sure if money was no object things could be done to fix this.

[pureboiracer 0]

i know im being picky now but i do like my 6cyls and want to keep it a 6 cyl

[Palazzo 438]

I'm surprised CamB hasn't mentioned FJ20ET, indestructable motor similar to 4G63's. Designed to take massive boost with little work. Better flowing DOHC head than SR's, Solid head design, basically a detuned race motor. And you get the benefit of elegance and weight distribution of a 4cyl in an E30.

The 4G63 had/has a reputation for putting a rod through the block when thrashed, not my definition of indestructible. The Lexus V8 in 4.3 litre form is a very strong engine and I would bet it produces well above the Jap industry standard of 209kw.

[drifty325i 0]

280HP at the wheels tells me my late all alloy "factory worked" 20series 1UZFE was the right decision and I still stand by it today Its one hell of an engine for its money

[JiB 0]

Looks like an M50 is your only plausible option for monster power if fufilling BMW + straight 6 requirements.

Sorry for OT, Buuuut:

I'm not a big fan of the EJ20ET (or any boxer for that matter) from experiences close friends of mine have had they tend to be prone to failure. If the engine survives usually the drivetrain suffers. I was once told by a Winger Subaru mechanic that you put an under rated clutch in a subaru to protect the engine and other drivetrain components. It's cheaper to replace a budget clutch than rebuild a gearbox.

You get a Not Achieved for comprehension. I think you will find I said FJ20ET not EJ20ET. FJ's an iron block beast from Nissan. Google tells me 250-300whp on stock internals is reliable.

Clicky

The 4G63 had/has a reputation for putting a rod through the block when thrashed, not my definition of indestructible. The Lexus V8 in 4.3 litre form is a very strong engine and I would bet it produces well above the Jap industry standard of 209kw.

Really? I'm not a Mitsi boy, but I was under the impression 4G63's were thrashable. Have a few friends running 1 bar boost on standard block Evos 4-7 Most of them for more than a year now with the odd track day. Tuned by ST-Hitec. 300hp at all four wheels.

Guys in US have 350+ unopened motors and 500+ with stock bottom end.

[darkwolf 0]

Sorry for OT, Buuuut:

You get a Not Achieved for comprehension. I think you will find I said FJ20ET not EJ20ET. FJ's an iron block beast from Nissan. Google tells me 250-300whp on stock internals is reliable.

Clicky

True. Never did like NCEA. got 96% percent of the question right but I am still teh fail.

[Palazzo 438]

Really? I'm not a Mitsi boy, but I was under the impression 4G63's were thrashable. Have a few friends running 1 bar boost on standard block Evos 4-7 Most of them for more than a year now with the odd track day. Tuned by ST-Hitec. 300hp at all four wheels.

Guys in US have 350+ unopened motors and 500+ with stock bottom end.

I had a friend who used to sell them, he used to get Evo 1-4 back quite regularly from the boy racer set with a rod through the block. He thought they might be better from 5 on. I have no idea, just repeating what he said and he sold plenty of them.

[*Glenn* 854]

i know im being picky now but i do like my 6cyls and want to keep it a 6 cyl

Personaly...I'd go M52B28

[darkwolf 0]

Really? I'm not a Mitsi boy, but I was under the impression 4G63's were thrashable. Have a few friends running 1 bar boost on standard block Evos 4-7 Most of them for more than a year now with the odd track day. Tuned by ST-Hitec. 300hp at all four wheels.

Guys in US have 350+ unopened motors and 500+ with stock bottom end.

I had a friend who used to sell them, he used to get Evo 1-4 back quite regularly from the boy racer set with a rod through the block. He thought they might be better from 5 on. I have no idea, just repeating what he said and he sold plenty of them.

Not to mention the smoke like they are going outta fashion. There's just something wrong about a moderately powerful car that looks nice and then puts its foot down and sends a blue cloud out the exhaust to suffocate the spectators. TBH I've always wanted an Evo, but just been put off buy the engine reliability side of things.

Back on topic. How much would an M3 3.2 I6 cost anyway? I mean the car's aren't exactly cheap. So to find a replacement engine would also run a high margin too wouldn't they? And if you are looking at turboing it anyway would it make that much of a difference?