removing traction controll... yay or nay

[edhardley 0]

Hey does anyone no if removing traction controll from you vehicle/ having it dissabled(etc) voids insurance in the situation of an accident? I've heard alot of people say if your car has ASC(or similar) it must remain intact or your insurance may not pay out in an accident. I'm prety sure its just one of those things one person thinks must be the case and then so does everyone else even tho theres no true or legal source. I want to remove the traction controll throtle body and replace with straight silicon pipe(lets engine breath better, and better throtle response), main reason tho is getting lsd... they don't realy go together haha. I'll probs do it anyway (don't see forensic investigators specing somones car in a accident, not in nz anyway), but out of interest and for piece of mind if somone can shed some light on this. cheers.

[|ncary 0]

Just don't crash! Sorted

[*Glenn* 854]

Hey does anyone no if removing traction controll from you vehicle/ having it dissabled(etc) voids insurance in the situation of an accident? I've heard alot of people say if your car has ASC(or similar) it must remain intact or your insurance may not pay out in an accident. I'm prety sure its just one of those things one person thinks must be the case and then so does everyone else even tho theres no true or legal source. I want to remove the traction controll throtle body and replace with straight silicon pipe(lets engine breath better, and better throtle response), main reason tho is getting lsd... they don't realy go together haha. I'll probs do it anyway (don't see forensic investigators specing somones car in a accident, not in nz anyway), but out of interest and for piece of mind if somone can shed some light on this. cheers.

If your car is auto and it will obviously have ABS...there is far more to it and lots of $$$

ASC, ABS, DME & EGS are all interlocked on the canbus line

[westy 614]

Its manual Glenn.

Dont you have a button to turn it off?

[*Glenn* 854]

Its manual Glenn.

Dont you have a button to turn it off?

Didnt see man on his signature.. I thought he meant I've got a 328 "man"

Yes but if he removes it from the system it will throw error codes and probably (will) go into limp mode

Edited February 1, 2009 by *Glenn*

[edhardley 0]

Its manual Glenn.

Dont you have a button to turn it off?

Yes it's manual, and i can have it done with new silicon pipe in about 5 minutes, but really just want to no whether its allowed under insurance pollicy, but yea it would be easier not to crash, whoever suggested that bright idea. Yea, but thats just electrical, the restrictive ASC TB is still present, and reviews have it that throtle response is increased, power by 1 or 2hp and sounds smoother. Also when the lsd is in I want to make sure theres absolutely no interference from ASC, for some reason even when it's switched off i find myself wondering if theres something still going on, and even then i always forget when its on/ off, noing i just dont have traction controll at all would be alot nicer.

[HELLBM 1552]

Easy... Install LSD, switch traction control off and have fun...

[*Glenn* 854]

Easy... Install LSD, switch traction control off and have fun...

Thats right Ray...but he wants to remove the ASC throttle body

[HELLBM 1552]

Thats right Ray...but he wants to remove the ASC throttle body

Set the controls to one side maybe...

I put an LSD into my dughters car (328 with traction control) Great improvement with traction control switched off.

Then I removed it for her safety after about a week.

Edited February 1, 2009 by HELLBM

[edhardley 0]

Thats right Ray...but he wants to remove the ASC throttle body

It won't trip any of the electronics, I have unplugged asc from engine bay before with no probs (its really the same as pressing the switch from inside the car, except it won't automatically turn back on). The Actuator for ASC is another thing which some people decide to remove and will cause problems (namely cutting of ABS to which it is conected, you can wire in a resistor to trick it into thinking its plugged in, I have no desire to do this tho), removing the secondary TB(furthest from the plenum) and putting a larger straight through piece of silicon pipe is all I'm looking to do. I can unstrap it and put the asc back in within about 5 minutes if it doesn't work out. That's true I can just turn it on and off from inside, but I think theres a little gain to be made for not much effort.

[*Glenn* 854]

You are wrong... you will introduce error codes in ABS, EGS & DME.. probably or might cause problems, but seeing you are confident with your research... why ask us...do it.. if it causes problems... undo it

[edhardley 0]

You are wrong... you will introduce error codes in ABS, EGS & DME.. probably or might cause problems, but seeing you are confident with your research... why ask us...do it.. if it causes problems... undo it

I didn't ask anyone if it would work, or what problems I may encounter. If we go back to the top of the thread I asked if it will void inssurance... You would know alot more about this stuff than me, no doubt, but people have done it, and i'll do it today or tommorow and let you know how I go, cheers for the input.

[*Glenn* 854]

If thats all you wanted to know....why didnt you just ring them... dont think we have your insurance company in here as members

BTW I'd probably say yes if it contributed to an accident

Edited February 1, 2009 by *Glenn*

[edhardley 0]

If thats all you wanted to know....why didnt you just ring them... dont think we have your insurance company in here as members

Well why instead of people using this forum for people asking questions, everyone go and ask a mechanic? as we arn't all mechanics here, are we?.... I thought somone may have some knowledge about this, seeing almost all insurance companies have similar policies, and would rather ask today than wait till tommorow and have my insurer thinking I moding up my car...(and then if something does happen they might be a bit sus). I did post this under the 'off-topic' section so I don't think your giving me a fair go, if somone doesn't have the answer then dw bout it.

[antony 0]

Just have it listed with your insurer as a modification, you should always keep them updated.

Might take a while to explain it tho

[*Glenn* 854]

Cool down man.. I gave you an answer from a technical point of view. I'm not an insurer... however if you remove it.. and you car was involved in a serious or fatal accident and it was proved that you removed ASC and it contributed to the accident, you might be liable and they may also not pay out on your insurance... because you have modifided the safety operation of your vehicle.

[edhardley 0]

Just have it listed with your insurer as a modification, you should always keep them updated.

Might take a while to explain it tho

Cheers for that, may be worth a look at.

[*Glenn* 854]

If you remove a safety system from your car... they will not accept it as a modification.. get real you guys

[aliluya 0]

If you remove a safety system from your car... they will not accept it as a modification.. get real you guys

I second that, i can almost guaranttee that your insurance would be void, espcially if the accident could have been prevented by traction control.

[*Glenn* 854]

I second that, i can almost guaranttee that your insurance would be void, espcially if the accident could have been prevented by traction control.

He might be thinking of moving down to Christchurch though

[ED1RTY 2]

I would have though safety>1 or 2hp

Each to their own.

[greenday-rulz21 6]

Cheers for that, may be worth a look at.

You want to be careful if you talk to a representative about something that might void the cover.

If you talk to someone do not give them any info which can link you to your car cover. If you ask them about that mod, and it would void the cover, they can put a little flag up against your info in the computer and if you happen to have a crash, they will check it out.

A mate I know in insurance let me know about that.

If you ask about a mod that would void the cover, they assume you're gonna do the mod. So they will check for it when and if they need to.

Hope that info helps.

[bravo 35]

I'm not so sure. If an insurer fails to pay out because traction control was permanently disabled, then they could easily refuse to pay out if it was temporarily disabled using the factory switch. Which is bollocks. To me, its a grey area and you won't get a definative answer here. My opinion is that 1) It would be very difficult to PROVE that the disablement CAUSED any accident (rather than just contributed), and 2) the fact you can disable anyway would make it very hard for any insurance company to win a case that they are not liable.

Just because they refuse to pay out does not mean they are either right or within their rights. You have the right to appeal. I have appealed several insurance claims and have generally had positive results from such appeals where the insurerwas playing hardball and was outside their rights.

Also, as you state, just because the simple act of pulling the sensor out will cause a fault in the Canbus train, does not mean that you cannot "trick" the system. Modern cars are made more complex by electronics, on the other hand, as is constantly proven, there is nothing electronic you cannot fool given enough time and knowledge,

(and sometimes $). I concede Glenn knows his stuff, but what is generally considered possible, and what is actually possible with the right amount of willpower and ingenuity can be very different.

I say give it a go, and if it works, any insurance company would stuggle to win a case based on the above plus the fact that you could always claim you had no idea that the modification had been done - we're talking civil law here - you don't have to prove beyond reasonable doubt!

Edited February 1, 2009 by bravo

[antony 0]

My car doesn't have traction control, and I still get insurance.

[edhardley 0]

Um glen, how is that comment relevant, i don't realy see what your saying, I understant the situation down there but please explain mate. I agree guys, nothings more important than safety, but it's definately a balancing act- I'm sure more than half of the people on this forum drive to if not exceed the speed limit, and generaly could be safer- the things discussed under the performace section lead me to this conclusion. I really don't see removing ASC as being unsafe, its only unsafe if you have excesisve acceleration for the conditions, and if I couldn't handle it I wouldn't do it. If you can't drive I understand why you shouldn't do this, Traction controll has never ever been of use to me, as i don't accelerate exccesively unless its purposefull and around a track or similar- and at this point I have it switched off. As for insurance purposes I'm not sure, Alot of the exact same modeled vehicles (slightly different year or month) don't have it, (the fact that theres a button with on/off option would suggest it doesn't matter for insurance purposes whether it is off, otherwise I higly doubt BMW would manufacture cars for road use that have the ability to void warrenty- may bring themselves some trouble). Please note I am putting an LSD in my car, just FYI if you don't understand why I'm deleting ASC... LSD is a replacement safety feature depending on how you use it.