4g63t install?

[User Name 19]

That would be good but no reason to run 25psi the 4g63t (unless you want to)you put out a nice 280hp on 550cc injectors at 90% duty cycle with evo 7 pistons running around 16psi,

so im sure you are going to have fun, get a good tune , and defo make sure that bottom end is made strong as its the most prone thing to go on these engines.

ill defo add to this post as my engine starts to get together project cost about 5k total so just see how it goes.

but good luck and have lots of fun

[|ncary 0]

not 100% sure yet... we shall see, but id like to have the option to if you know what i mean?

Baited and bitten. Well you will need:

9 inch wide rear wheels and expensive tires.

Weld in camber correction kit other wise you will never have traction.

Uprated 5 series guibo and endless supply of halfshafts.

Solid or poly bushings all round.

Much, much larger brakes, so most likely a 5 stud conversion.

You will blow the starion gearbox, ask how I know, you will need a S4/5 RX7 gearbox or that gearbox mitsi made for ford or whoever to go in some ute they made.

Or you could run stock boost and save thousands and thousands of dollars and still have a car with too much power for the chassis..

But hey, big power is pretty cool I reckon, but too many do it wrong, it's sad. Hope you have a non-arts degree/high paying job. You need to do teh brakes and suspension first.

[wolliver 1]

lol ok... how do u knw.

yea like i said, im not tos sure how much boost i wanna run, but building it so it can handle 25 to be safe aye.

but befor running too much power, ill definatly be ugrading brakes and putting a skyline rear end in, which means 5 stud conversion.

as for the rx7 box, would i hav to get an adapter plate made up for the box to marry up or what???

[|ncary 0]

No the RX7 box bolts straight up (so I hear from vertern Mitsi guys, who also know that the starion gearbox is a shocker ahaha), might need a different shifter rod length depending on where the engine sits.

So you'll have 5x114 on the back and 5x120 on the front? Bit weird.

Much cheaper options if you wanna just build a skidder. Ooo look here's a Mspec one! http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/C...n-229247733.htm

[User Name 19]

Info

Mazda RX7 / B2600 Transmission

How the hell will an RX7 transmission work? This came as quite a suprise to me as well. Here is the background. Mazda built the Mazda B2600 for several years. During two of those years ('87-'88), the carburated engine blocks were the 2.6L G54B! The other "2.6" engine produced during this time was called the G6. This is also known as the MPV block.

The RX7 transmission WILL NOT bolt to any 4G6x engine. You will need a B2600 bellhousing to adapt it to the Mitsubishi wideblock. It is also possible to bolt the B2600 transmission up, but it may have a longer input shaft which will not work with the Starion flywheel.

Here is an image comparing the bellhousings:

http://www.projectzerog.com/images/rx7tran...gComparison.jpg

Transmission: Mazda Model R - B2600 / RX7 Turbo

Flywheel: Starion

Pressure Plate: Starion / RX7

Clutch Disk: Starion / RX7

Starter: Starion

[c.robertson00 11]

To me it looks like the bolt spacings that hold the bellhousings on is the same for all the g/boxes except the starion. So that would mean the B2600 g/box bellhousing would bolt onto the RX7 g/box???

[|ncary 0]

It can be done, maybe not a direct bolt up. But it can be done.

[Jezza 0]

Think I can clear this one up for you guys.

If you are using a complete evo 7 bolt motor (all evo motors are 7bolt), you won't be able to make it RWD. This is because starion gearboxes, s4/s5 gearboxes and b2600 gearboxes will only bolt up to WIDEBLOCKS which only came on the earlier models of 4g63's (SOHC RWD variants).

What you'll need:

-A Starion or turbo Sapporo or turbo RWD Sigma bottom end (As these are the only motors with piston oil squirters and RWD mounts). Turbo cordia's came with narrow blocks.

-VR4 head or Evo head. (VR4 heads have ridiculously large ports so kiss your bottom end torque good bye, Evo heads are better for day to day driving.)

-Starion flywheel (These only bolt to 6 bolt cranks)

-VR4 or Evo pistons to suit the valves in the twin cam head. Starion conrods have 21mm semi floating gudgeon pins, I think VR4 pistons may be 21mm but Evo pistons are definitely 22mm so the rods will need to be bored out.

- As Incary said, either a Starion gearbox (which will hold around 300 - 350whp max), or a stronger s4/s5 gearbox or a b2600 gearbox will bolt to the wideblock.

The difference between the 2600 box and the s4/s5 box is the ratio's and the shifter positions. You'd be better off hunting down a mazda box as they are easier to find and have cases which split open as opposed to internals which slide out. The starion box has bearings in it which even some workshops will struggle to press out.

-You'll need to swap the throttle body onto the opposite end of the plenum or use a evo 4 manifold and weld up the extra injector ports.

-You can use the starion timing plate or the twin cam timing plate. If you use the starion timing plate, you will need to covert the timing gears over to suit the twin cam belt. The difference between these two cover is where the waterpump outlet faces. You'll also need to be conscious of the alternator as it sits fairly close to the output of the waterpump.

-You will also need to re route the waterline off the back of the head to run to the top pipe of the radiator, an additional line will need to run from this outlet to the waterpump to act as a bypass.

If you plan on running high boost it'll pay to get some forged pistons. The standard ones will support around 300 - 330whp with a standard TD05H Big 16G turbo @ 20psi. You may also need to high mount the turbo but that depends on if the standard low mount manifold/turbo clears your steering setup.

Don't forget your aftermarket computer with install and tune. Around 3k all up. You'll also need a new fuel pump which can support the extra psi. Evo yellow top injectors are 510cc and will around support 20psi (@520cfm). Later model Evo injectors are 560cc (Purple tops I think) but cost twice as much for some reason :S.

There is more to it than meets the eye, you'll come across other minor inconveniences but hey thats part of the fun.

I have a lot of the parts you need so flick me a pm with an offer if your after something.

[wolliver 1]

Think I can clear this one up for you guys.

wow dude, thanks a lot!

im using starion block. so no problem with fittin the gearbox to it lol

[Jezza 0]

Haha, hope it helps.

Sorry I made an error with the S4/S5 gearbox, you WILL need a B2600 bellhousing.

[dirtydoogle 383]

The 4g63t idea is quite cool! Go for it, do what ya want. You can make some good power from the 4g motor and keep it reasonably flexible too. I know of a few good builds [not in a real car though ] and they make reasonable power, do a good skid too Better than the ole e39a vr4 I had...urgh

Just load up the gears by holding the handbrake, and letting the clutch slightly out till it lurches a wee bit, for launches. And nice smooth shifts. Once the drivetrain components are loaded up they can take hundreds and hundreds of newton metres. It's the lash and crashing teeth together that kills it really.

It's slower, believe me. I'm a strip junky and loading it up is a waste of time. Your A/FR is all wrong and your ignition timing too far advanced to be breathing properly in sync with your cam. low rev launch. Try doing the same thing down the strip in an auto, slower, guaranteed Not meaning to be a knob, just offering some advice. Edited August 18, 2009 by dirtydoogle

[320guy 0]

People drag race 600hp+ e30s on standard axles and medium cases diffs. As long as ur not a f**kwit it will be fine.

[|ncary 0]

It's slower, believe me. I'm a strip junky and loading it up is a waste of time. Your A/FR is all wrong and your ignition timing too far advanced to be breathing properly in sync with your cam. low rev launch. Try doing the same thing down the strip in an auto, slower, guaranteed Not meaning to be a knob, just offering some advice.

I mean having the Rev's where you usually have them, but the handbrake fully up and the clutch just sliiiightly grabbing. It also compresses the rear suspension so you get a much, much faster launch because you don't have to wait for the cars rear suspension to compress before it starts moving, also reducing wheelspin. It works

[dirtydoogle 383]

I mean having the Rev's where you usually have them, but the handbrake fully up and the clutch just sliiiightly grabbing. It also compresses the rear suspension so you get a much, much faster launch because you don't have to wait for the cars rear suspension to compress before it starts moving, also reducing wheelspin. It works

Try doing that back to back with a tidy launch on the strip dude, loading up a vehicle is slower, we don't load up our rail, because it's slower and will sh*t the diff. I explained this to a mate who was running sh*t times in an s14 [as they do] he was bringing the revs up with the factory stall converter which locks up very early like any auto, he dropped .2 of a second just putting his boot in it off the line without loading anything up, same has been done with many cars, loading it up is slower. If you are going to "load it up" the only way that is faster is by having a trans brake, common to do with linko boxes. But that really isn't loading it up. If you suffer from too much wheelspin don't launch so hard, or soften the rear tires a bit and do your burnout across the line not to the line. Our rail runs around 1 second flat on the 60ft at 100mph, our driver doesn't load it up, it only had a moderate stall converter but the same applies for a manual. As I said, when loading it up all the ignition and injector timing is out. Which makes a fast FEELING launch by being a bigger shunt but it's slower. Not meaning to be a picky prat sorry, but we've been there and done that on the strip and nope, it's slower.

[|ncary 0]

My original example was regarding a BMW E30 with too much power, trying to save gearboxes, diff's and CV joints. In a manual road car it is much less stressful on the drivetrain to load it up, (also spools up turbos if you don't have anti-lag by putting a bit of load on the engine)

, especially 4WD cars with all the traction they have (and usually weak gearboxes to go with it) It's common practise on a road car if you want it to last more than a year. Your drag trannies are much, much stronger for a reason.

I can do it back to back, I'm no god, letting the clutch out using muscle memory, developed from practise, at a certain amount of revs while droping the handbrake is not exactly 4 year Uni level physics.

Drag cars and their 'technology' are something I hope to never, ever be involved with. Would rather melt down 100 dollar bills and drink them. It's cool if you do it, but in my personal opinion I'd rather go to the track and continue around the corner at the end of the straight.

*typo

Edited August 18, 2009 by Incary

[dirtydoogle 383]

My original example was regarding a BMW E30 with too much power, trying to save gearboxes, diff's and CV joints. In a manual road car it is much less stressful on the drivetrain to load it up, especially 4WD cars with all the traction they have (and usually weak gearboxes to go with it) It's common practise on a road car if you want it to last more than a year. Your drag trannies are much, much stronger for a reason. (also spools up turbos if you don't have anti-lag by putting a bit of load on the engine)

I can do it back to back, I'm no god, letting the clutch out using muscle memory, developed from practise, at a certain amount of revs while droping the handbrake is not exactly 4 year Uni level physics.

Drag cars and their 'technology' are something I hope to never, ever be involved with. Would rather melt down 100 dollar bills and drink them. It's cool if you do it, but in my personal opinion I'd rather go to the track and continue around the corner at the end of the straight.

Our drag car has around the same technology as my e12....

Well our drag car uses next to no technology

The reason the 4wd gear boxes sh*t out is the sudden take up from d*ck wits dumping the clutch, don't dump the clutch in a 4wd unless you have it on grass....take a mitsi cm5a gsr for example, the fastest way down the strip is launching from 2700rpm. With an e30, easing the power on slower and using the brilliant throttle control I wish I had and it will be faster and last longer, dumping the clutch breaks any car, launching properly means there is no sudden take up on you drive line meaning your e30 doesn't go pop, loading up is unnecessary stress in any vehicle, it stresses your gears, engine and diff. It's not hard to build revs up to a certain amount and have consistent launches

Our drag car has mechanical injection like a ww2 air craft did and a set of points like anything 50 years old did, running through the recommended replacement coil for a misti cordia, it's only a 380ish cube small block with a c6 3speed auto, no real technology. I prefer corners too, I just also like watching 1800hp take off and having the experience of working on such a cool machine. I'd rather ride a bike though. You got the melting money part right...but 7 sec quarters aren't cheap

[|ncary 0]

Loading up the gears by dragging the clutch slightly at 3500rpm would put much, much less force through the running gear than say being in 5th gear going up a hill at WOT (worn clutches slipping in higher gears is evidence of this), or changing into second gear fast. The main wear item would be the clutch (which is cheaper than CV's and diffs) Even if you do a smooth fast launch with no 'clutch dump' it is much better to get the teeth in the gearbox touching each other, and the splines in the diff pushed together, and the joints in the CV's mashed together, cause when you let that clutch out (even smoothly) that initial bite it has will accelerate the teeth and splines together and deform them, doing it repeatedly will lead to failure. That is pure fact based on evidence, I see no reason not to load up gears for casual drag days or races at the lights, there are zero downsides and many upsides.

And I put technology in apostrophes to imply that drag racing uses technology that is looong gone by

[dirtydoogle 383]

Loading up the gears by dragging the clutch slightly at 3500rpm would put much, much less force through the running gear than say being in 5th gear going up a hill at WOT (worn clutches slipping in higher gears is evidence of this), or changing into second gear fast. The main wear item would be the clutch (which is cheaper than CV's and diffs) Even if you do a smooth fast launch with no 'clutch dump' it is much better to get the teeth in the gearbox touching each other, and the splines in the diff pushed together, and the joints in the CV's mashed together, cause when you let that clutch out (even smoothly) that initial bite it has will accelerate the teeth and splines together and deform them, doing it repeatedly will lead to failure. That is pure fact based on evidence, I see no reason not to load up gears for casual drag days or races at the lights, there are zero downsides and many upsides.

And I put technology in apostrophes to imply that drag racing uses technology that is looong gone by

We have done it before as I said and know what works best and is better for it But, each to their own, I have never had a problem with any of my vehicles by doing it how I do and it's been faster down the strip, so that would mean faster off the lights, the gears are helical cut so they will die when you load it up in such a manner faster than being nice, rapeing the car will obviously destroy things... Helical gears aren't very strong so stressing the teeth against each other isn't a good thing, a smooth take up is faster and far more delicate. I work with a guy who has been doing these things since th early 70s. If loading it up was better for the car or faster he would do it. So would all the others.

But they still can't turn corners

[|ncary 0]

It's not really loading it like you are thinking, load is towing a boat up a hill in 6th with a supercharged V16, you just have to settle all the splines/teeth/CV joints against each other so there is no slamming together of things. The clutch take up is all the same, as smooth as the tires allow, just a little like 3% load to get the teeth pressed together. He probably hasn't done it because drag racers cover, what, like 20 km a year or something? With diffs the size of a beer keg, so not a huge problem. Haha!

But whatever method works/feels best then use it by all means. I just notice a massive decrease in wheel hop and better, faster runs through 1st gear when I do it around and about. Not that I do it often, maybe 10 times this year.. In a daily driver E30.

[c.robertson00 11]

I just found this site that covers RWD 4g6x conversions.

www.projectzerog.com

[OLLIE 26]

Incary and Dirtydoogle ... This is a great debate, although slightly off topic and i can see where you both are coming from. Whet you have really highlighted is the simple fact that how you can best launch a car really depends on the car and the cars purpose.

A drag car is used to do a few quarter mile runs really fast in a straight line

A race car is used to do countless laps with huge strain on the gears, the clutch, the suspension, the brakes and the engine for a prolonged period without interval

A road car is used to get from A-B and be reliable

A weekends car is used occasionally for some spirited driving at track days and the likes

A rally car is used on predomninantly gravel ....

And so on ...

They best way to launch these cars is different in every case, and different for every driver too, a driver will learn a lot about the car the more time he practices with it.

If you are interested in the best way to launch an e30 then come and check out one of the e30 series races, you can watch 40 cars all launch off the line at once, keep an eye on the best starters and ask them after the race ... "how did you launch?"

[wolliver 1]

Incary and Dirtydoogle ... This is a great debate, although slightly off topic and i can see where you both are coming from. Whet you have really highlighted is the simple fact that how you can best launch a car really depends on the car and the cars purpose.

A drag car is used to do a few quarter mile runs really fast in a straight line

A race car is used to do countless laps with huge strain on the gears, the clutch, the suspension, the brakes and the engine for a prolonged period without interval

A road car is used to get from A-B and be reliable

A weekends car is used occasionally for some spirited driving at track days and the likes

A rally car is used on predomninantly gravel ....

And so on ...

They best way to launch these cars is different in every case, and different for every driver too, a driver will learn a lot about the car the more time he practices with it.

If you are interested in the best way to launch an e30 then come and check out one of the e30 series races, you can watch 40 cars all launch off the line at once, keep an eye on the best starters and ask them after the race ... "how did you launch?"

well said haha

[dirtydoogle 383]

We don't just drive predominantly drag cars, I was referring to vehicles with helical cut gears. And also pointing out it's slower. Try the times, it's slower and worse for the gears.

I bet the racers in the E30 series do not "load" the box up, simple fact of the matter is, once a gear is selected the gears are meshed. Done.

Edited August 20, 2009 by dirtydoogle

[fuzyfrog 0]

All this talk of Starions make me miss mine

[dirtydoogle 383]

All this talk of Starions make me miss mine

I remember them well, a mate had one and the oil feed to the turbo was too small. But christ was it a giggle in the gravel!