M325is 0 Report post Posted July 29, 2009 Is anyone here a lawyer? I have a copyright case, some bastard has taken off with my design work without paying and then given it to another sign company to complete the production. I have a meeting tomorrow with a lawyer he charges $320/hour after an initial free 30mins. Can anyone suggest somebody cheaper but at the same time good at what they do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
323e30 0 Report post Posted July 29, 2009 I might be completely off , But Can you represent yourself in court? Ive represented myself in the past rather than paying 1000$ for a lawyer buy I was the defendant. (sustained loss of traction, Verdict not guilty) Im not sure if its the same in your case. But it sounds like its pretty strait forward to prove that its your design and that hes stolen it so you may not need a lawyer in the court room with you to get it across to the judge. http://www.howtolaw.co.nz/html/ml086.asp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M325is 0 Report post Posted July 29, 2009 Hopefully we wont be taking it to court. There a bit more involved. I'm hoping I can get a letter from a lawyer outlining the laws he is breaking, that should be enough for him to pay up. Fingers crossed. Being told by a "little girl" that he's breaking the law just isnt enough apparently. After watching that documentary on gangs in NZ i'm wondering if maybe it would be a good Idea to go find one and be friends. The amount of sh*t lately, I'm sick of peoples childish behaviors towards business contracts and terms of payment! I need one of those butch motorbikers to go and park themselves in the foyer and staunch them out... but then is that legal? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apex 693 Report post Posted July 29, 2009 How much does he owe, you have to work out weather the legal path is worth going down as it will 9 times out of 10 end up costing you a lot more with minimal resolve? I know some "interesting people" that I contra with for debut collection, works out quite well, people always pay the same day. I can pass on your details to them if you like, they will no doubt have need for your services. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DRTDVL 0 Report post Posted July 29, 2009 After watching that documentary on gangs in NZ i'm wondering if maybe it would be a good Idea to go find one and be friends. Thats who most debt collections people hire to act as the people that go into the office to talk to the person owing money. Typically a Thug and someone to do the talking... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M3_Power 636 Report post Posted July 29, 2009 (edited) I don't specialise in copyright, but for copyright stuff you really want somebody that's a real specialist in the area, don't just go to a run of the mill lawyer, as all they'll do is draft up a letter to outline the breach and threaten them to stop the action or pay up and charge you their hourly rate for a basic letter. Call a specialist Intellectual Property firm, or a large firm with an Intellectual Property department - not to mention it gives more weight to the claim and shows that you are serious about taking this further if you hire somebody that's actually a specialist. Edited July 29, 2009 by M3_Power Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cale 36 Report post Posted July 29, 2009 I'm no lawyer, but I would think it should be pretty easy to represent yourself if you can? As I understand Intellectual Property law is pretty clear cut. I guess this is the law he is breaking within the Copyright Act 1994. If you need any info on other sections I can find them if you need. Section 29 Infringement of copyright (1)Copyright in a work is infringed by a person who, other than pursuant to a copyright licence, does any restricted act. (2)References in this Act to the doing of a restricted act are to the doing of that act— (a)In relation to the work as a whole or any substantial part of it; and (b)Either directly or indirectly;— and it is immaterial whether any intervening acts themselves infringe copyright. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M325is 0 Report post Posted July 29, 2009 wow that's a mouthful haha Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Simon* Report post Posted July 29, 2009 Shelley I think it's in your best interests to go down this route. Get the right kind of lawyer who specialises and get it done right. You can go the thieving bastard for costs at the same time. I don't specialise in copyright, but for copyright stuff you really want somebody that's a real specialist in the area, don't just go to a run of the mill lawyer, as all they'll do is draft up a letter to outline the breach and threaten them to stop the action or pay up and charge you their hourly rate for a basic letter. Call a specialist Intellectual Property firm, or a large firm with an Intellectual Property department - not to mention it gives more weight to the claim and shows that you are serious about taking this further if you hire somebody that's actually a specialist. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bellicose 9 Report post Posted July 29, 2009 Did you have the design/art work already under copyright? It's a huge mine field in this area, the thing is you have to prove it was yours and they took/used it illegaly, they don't have to prove a thing. I copyright (personnal and commercial) all my art work but sometimes you have to wiegh up the cost of litigation versus the cost to you of the loss. Does that make sense lol. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M3_Power 636 Report post Posted July 29, 2009 (edited) I'm no lawyer, but I would think it should be pretty easy to represent yourself if you can? As I understand Intellectual Property law is pretty clear cut. Trust me this area of the law is anything but clear cut ... and I have a Law Honours degree. Get a specialist - and like stated above, if you don't actively protect it, you lose it. Edited July 29, 2009 by M3_Power Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3series 0 Report post Posted July 29, 2009 www.served.co.nz - Aaron Seul Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nobimmer 694 Report post Posted July 29, 2009 I have a Law Honours degree. I always wondered how you have 2 M3's Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
antil33t 90 Report post Posted July 29, 2009 www.served.co.nz - Aaron Seul +1 If he is who I think he is, He's pretty good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shady 0 Report post Posted July 29, 2009 As for it costing You to take action, if he doesnt agree to pay up, you can then sue him for expenses - but they may be another Law yet again to do that - but they can then request the Judge (or whoever does it) orders the Crim to pay the Legal fees for both parties. My understanding anyways. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elmarco 56 Report post Posted July 29, 2009 (edited) Hmmm - yes IP and copyright law is a murky subject at best, and I know for a fact that our patent lawyers charge about $500 an hour.... So, you need to be very clear as to how much this problem is worth to you. I know, you feel wronged and want the satisfaction of being proved right (and grinding the other guy into dust.... sorry I might have added that bit), but be sensible about: a) how much you could recover given a best case scenario b ) how long you want to wait to see your money c) how much you are realistically going to spend winning the case I have no idea how much money is involved, but I think you are starting correctly in having a professional letter written as it may show you how resolved the other party is to not paying you without laying out huge sums of cash. You got to know when to hold 'em, and when to fold 'em to quote Kenny Rogers, and which battles you can economically win - easier said than done I know, but take the emotion out of it and make a business decision. One thing I won't tolerate is a lawyer charging you to do a quote - understand their fees before you do anything else. My wife got stung like this and eventually just paid their bill (to give her a quote which she eventually declined due to their shonky practices) - much to my disgust, and annoyance. Good luck! Edit: not sure how the got in there... Edited July 29, 2009 by elmarco Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M325is 0 Report post Posted July 29, 2009 Fek i'm sick of this sheit aye, what is it with people thinking they can pick and choose what they want and the terms of payment is up to them! Can somebody tell me why medium to large companies think that they can choose the payment terms after they have already signed off on our terms?! What makes them more superior? Alot of people are arseholes in business. I cant believe how childish this company is being. I'm lucky I have a fek load of patience otherwise i would have killed people by now, I'm having to restrain my partner from a face to face confrontation. But then that would be stooping to their childish level. It sucks that we have to lose money just to make a moral statement! But I find it very hard to let them get away with it. Its why they are doing it in the first place... they know they can get away with it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3series 0 Report post Posted July 29, 2009 spose it would be counter productive to name the company? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Driftit 2078 Report post Posted July 29, 2009 Name and Shame them I say. Hit up Fair Go. Most companies will do what they can to avoid bad publicity. Being a young business owner/operator thats been wronged by a larger corporate I would think Fair Go would like a story like that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mtk540 3 Report post Posted July 29, 2009 I'm not in the legal profession either but in the finance profession. The best advice I can give you is to get good advice. Many here have correctly recommended you seek advice from a specialist in IP, patents or copyright. I see that you are in Auckland and I have a client up there that has used a firm called A J Park although I can't remember who the partner was. Apparently they were great, knew their stuff and blew away the opposition. If your copyright is that valuable to you then spend the dollars to keep and preserve it. You only get one chance and if you do it yourself or hire someone because they were the cheapest and then stuff it up then it (your IP and your hard earned money) is gone forever. Good luck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elmarco 56 Report post Posted July 29, 2009 Can somebody tell me why medium to large companies think that they can choose the payment terms after they have already signed off on our terms?! To be honest, it is a bit company dependent (common with some I have come across, and the complete opposite with others), and at the moment everyone is trying to stretch out their cashflow as long as they can. Normally at their suppliers expense.... One thing you can do is a credit check on prospective customers and speak to some of their existing suppliers before accepting them as a customer. You could also lodge a PPSR (someone else will have to advise exactly how and when etc) - but without knowing the exact circumstances I don't know how relevant it is to your current issue. It is unfortunate that not everyone has the same ethics and morals in business - but I guess that's what makes the world go around and keeps the loan sharks, debt collectors, and credit controllers employed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bravo 35 Report post Posted July 29, 2009 The most cost effective route would have to be fair go or the disputes tribunal. You may not succeed, but it won't cost you much. As others have said copyright law is complex and an expensive specialist would be the way to go if you were going to pay someone. Out of interest I did some reading on intellectual property and copyright law last night. Read some best practice stuff and some applicable case law (Henkel KgaA v Holdfast Manufacturing Ltd etc for the law students and lawyers out there). Very complex! Interesting though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M325is 0 Report post Posted July 29, 2009 BMW3 your avatar made me jump off my seat! OUCH! Thanks for your advice people, hopefully I'll have something sorted by the end of today. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr E34 11 Report post Posted July 29, 2009 It all depends on how much money this is worth to you, big money? Maybe contact Mark Lowndes, Lowndes & Associates. You may end up with a big legal bill, not worth it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kerrynzl 3 Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Is anyone here a lawyer? I have a copyright case, some bastard has taken off with my design work without paying and then given it to another sign company to complete the production. I have a meeting tomorrow with a lawyer he charges $320/hour after an initial free 30mins. Can anyone suggest somebody cheaper but at the same time good at what they do? Shelley, Copywright laws are quite "cut and dry" in the western world.[ even China recognises it ] click onto wikipedia for a simple explanation. A patent usually lasts about 21 years but a copywright can be up to 60 years past your death. All you need to do is prove that it is your intellectual property [ it does not need to be registered ] then you need to put a value on the loss [ or compensation ] that you seek If you submitted a proposal and a quote, that is enough. Send an account to the company or individual that used it , when they refuse to pay you then have a dispute. Use the disputes tribunal up to about $8K [ only for disputes , not debt collection ] My experience with the disputes tribunal is that people are gutless and usually hide behind "companies" Take an individual to the disputes tribunal not the company [ individuals commit crimes based on their decisions not companies ] No lawyers are allowed for either party Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
