Annoying Trade Me saga

[Guest Si Vis Pacem]

Situation:

See car on TM (dealer), $1 reserve.

After doing background checks, place auto-bid of $x000.

My auto-bid exceeded by another bidder.

Oh-well win some, lose some, start looking at other cars.

A few days later, find another car, enter negotiation process.

A week after being outbid, receive email from TM informing me that the leading bidder has had their bid removed by TM Admin and that I'm now back in the lead! The leading bidder had offered what I consider to be a lame excuse. The email also stated that if I wanted my bid removed then contact the seller requesting such.

Contacted the seller to the effect of "what the hell is going on" and shouldn't the bids be wound back to where this (former) leading bidder started bidding?

Seller replied with no idea what has happened as TM Admin had removed the leading bid and that if I wanted anything done about it then I should contact them.

I replied, requesting the seller to remove my bid.

Got a very snotty reply back, re-stating that I need to contact TM, reminding me of legal obligations etc.

Before I could reply in kind, the ad' was removed by the seller.

I have subsequently engaged TM on this matter, pointing out that they should review their processes around this scenario. After some time had elapsed and a reminder form me, they stated that, whilst sympathising with me, they didn't see any need to change their processes. My correspondence with them continues...

I've trolled through their rules and regulations and have not found anything that covers or warns about this scenario. In my opinion TM should at least warn bidders that they can find themselves in this situation.

In summary, it would seem that if one is bidding on anything on TM and is outbid, wait until the auction has run its course before bidding on or purchasing anything else. To me, having to do this is a royal pain as in this case the auction had over a week to run, I wanted a car therefore it was inconvenient to have to wait "just in case" the leading bidder might be able to pull out. This saga would not happen in a "real world" auction such as Turners.

I shall keep you posted as to any updates from TM.

Cheers

Ken.

[cliffdunedin 8]

Sounds like a ridiculous situation to be put in, from Tardme.

sounds like the seller may have been buffering the price for their car by bidding for it themselves, via another account.

I wonder if Tardme have looked at this traders previous auctions and whether similar things have happened before.

[39KiwiTouring 2]

You wern't the leading bidder when the auction finished, it ends there for you. By law at auction you have to ask to be the shelf bidder or similar terminology, which means that if the lead bidder welchers your last bid stands.

Walk away and get on with you life.

[kiwi535 538]

You wern't the leading bidder when the auction finished, it ends there for you. By law at auction you have to ask to be the shelf bidder or similar terminology, which means that if the lead bidder welchers your last bid stands.

Walk away and get on with you life.

this is surely the situation.Youwere outbid,the auction finished your involvement is finished.I wasnt aware that being second in an auction was a binding agreement!

[thorburn 120]

sounds like he was put back in the lead with time left on the auction. Either way i'd just ignore it

[kiwi535 538]

Situation:

See car on TM (dealer), $1 reserve.

After doing background checks, place auto-bid of $x000.

My auto-bid exceeded by another bidder.

Oh-well win some, lose some, start looking at other cars.

A few days later, find another car, enter negotiation process.

A week after being outbid, receive email from TM informing me that the leading bidder has had their bid removed by TM Admin and that I'm now back in the lead! The leading bidder had offered what I consider to be a lame excuse. The email also stated that if I wanted my bid removed then contact the seller requesting such.

Contacted the seller to the effect of "what the hell is going on" and shouldn't the bids be wound back to where this (former) leading bidder started bidding?

Seller replied with no idea what has happened as TM Admin had removed the leading bid and that if I wanted anything done about it then I should contact them.

I replied, requesting the seller to remove my bid.

Got a very snotty reply back, re-stating that I need to contact TM, reminding me of legal obligations etc.

Before I could reply in kind, the ad' was removed by the seller.

I have subsequently engaged TM on this matter, pointing out that they should review their processes around this scenario. After some time had elapsed and a reminder form me, they stated that, whilst sympathising with me, they didn't see any need to change their processes. My correspondence with them continues...

I've trolled through their rules and regulations and have not found anything that covers or warns about this scenario. In my opinion TM should at least warn bidders that they can find themselves in this situation.

In summary, it would seem that if one is bidding on anything on TM and is outbid, wait until the auction has run its course before bidding on or purchasing anything else. To me, having to do this is a royal pain as in this case the auction had over a week to run, I wanted a car therefore it was inconvenient to have to wait "just in case" the leading bidder might be able to pull out. This saga would not happen in a "real world" auction such as Turners.

I shall keep you posted as to any updates from TM.

Cheers

Ken.

Hang on had the auction actually finished when you moved on??

[cliffdunedin 8]

sounds like he was put back in the lead with time left on the auction. Either way i'd just ignore it

That's what i assumed also...which is why i thought the trader might be pushing up his own auction by outbidding the autobids then withdrawing from the auction.

[Lucan 196]

See car on TM (dealer), $1 reserve.

After doing background checks, place auto-bid of $x000.

My auto-bid exceeded by another bidder.

Oh-well win some, lose some, start looking at other cars.

Guess he lost, no obligation to pay as you lost the Auction.

[Guest Si Vis Pacem]

Hang on had the auction actually finished when you moved on??

No - However as I stated there is nothing in TM's rules to state that if this scenario occurs then I am bound. TM admin stated in writing that I could withdraw as well. The whole point of this is that I believe that TM should adjust their rules/policies or whatever to make it absolutely clear that a bidder should abstain from bidding on any other "like" auction until the first one has run its course. Further defence of this stance is that the reason the then leading bidder gave to TM was that once being outbid they went and purchased another car and thus was able to have their bid removed. I draw again attention to a "real" auction scenario like Turners: If you are outbid, you can walk away and start bidding on another vehicle or just walk away; TM needs to align to that in my opinion.

[Guest Si Vis Pacem]

You wern't the leading bidder when the auction finished, it ends there for you. By law at auction you have to ask to be the shelf bidder or similar terminology, which means that if the lead bidder welchers your last bid stands.

Walk away and get on with you life.

If I wanted advice on how to conduct my life I would ask for it! I wasn't aware that this forum was able to be used in this manner. Have you actually digested the point I'm trying to get across here or does you air of superiority preclude that?

[cliffdunedin 8]

I think your reading too much into what kiwitouring was saying, from his post it was assumed the auction had finished!

I do agree with you though TM need to sort their sh!t out in so many ways but being they are NZ's largest and main auction site we are monopolised too have to put up with it.

Is the auction still running? you should link us too it

[39KiwiTouring 2]

Storm in a tea cup. So you bid (autobid), but then someone bid higher. Auction hadn't finished leading bidder pulled out (withdrew), so you were next in line, so you were offered the item? is that correct. You were also able to withdraw if you liked, TM assumed you wanted the item as you bid.

Run your life however you want as long as it's got nothing to do with me.

[Guest Si Vis Pacem]

I think your reading too much into what kiwitouring was saying, from his post it was assumed the auction had finished!

I do agree with you though TM need to sort their sh!t out in so many ways but being they are NZ's largest and main auction site we are monopolised too have to put up with it.

Is the auction still running? you should link us too it

You're right - maybe I need another coffee!

However...

My last statement under the Situation heading:

Before I could reply in kind, the ad' was removed by the seller.

Ergo - the "auction" was ended.

Two key points:

This scenario is not covered in TM's policies/procedures/rules/regulations or whatever.

TM informed me that due to the circumstances I could request of the seller to have my bid removed, the seller said no, I must contact TM. "Annoying" and confusing.

Cheers

[Hartage 0]

As is see or understand you, its not ethical that they do not,

A, Inform you that the high bidder has been removed by them.

B, That you are now the high bidder, assuming that it had passed its reserve.

C, Give an explanation why you are now legally bound to the auction.

From TM's Terms and Conditions:

As a result, even though some of the services are being referred to as an auction, Trade Me is not an auctioneer (whether under the Auctioneers Act 1928 or otherwise).

They have some things to address here, on one hand they refer to all sales as auctions, but in the term's and conditions remove them selves from the act.

[pureboiracer 0]

i looked into this a while back, similar thing happened, iirc what i found is this.

trademe is not an auction, it is simply creating an invitation to treat with the seller.

so in contract law, whether you win the auction or not, you have not at that point accepted a contractual offer, instead you have put forward your offer to create negotiations. this therefore puts you under no legal obligations as there has been no formal contract formed.

but i do agree that the trademe site does not show this very well and many people that use it think that once you win an auction you are legaly bound.

[camera doctor 25]

In my personal experience, from when I had a situation with an abusive seller, Trademe Admin seem to side with the seller !

I guess this is because it is the seller whom they get paid by.

Only when I pointed this out to them and how poor that was, they finally apologised to me and said they would contact the seller and tell them to stop !

But, in your case, I think the fair thing to all involved would have been for TMe to remove ALL bids and then email you to say the auction was bascially re-starting and give you the option of bidding again.

As you warned, I am sure we have all stopped looking at auctions once our top bid is surpassed - thanks for the heads-up

[Guest Si Vis Pacem]

But, in your case, I think the fair thing to all involved would have been for TMe to remove ALL bids and then email you to say the auction was bascially re-starting and give you the option of bidding again.

As you warned, I am sure we have all stopped looking at auctions once our top bid is surpassed - thanks for the heads-up

Agree with your points totally especially the one about restarting the auction. The leading bidder in the auction I was involved with had, in my opinion, a very flimsy excuse for having their bid withdrawn. Ironically, they had contacted the seller 5 days after they had been out(auto)bid, asking to be withdrawn becase "they had been outbid and had bought another car". The seller refused to remove their bid.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2915]

The situation is even more confused with auto bids, as in this case. For example, auction is sitting at say, a $50 bid, you place and auto bid of $1,000 so would automatically start at $55. Some else comes along and bids all the way up past the $1,000 to become the lead bidder.

Now if they want their "lead" bid to be withdrawn the bid only goes back down to the $1,000 maximum of the auto-bid, not back to the $55 from where it started.

I have seen this happen a number of times with my auto-bids, and I fully suspect it is a "friend" of the seller pushing the price up then backing out, so have refused to go through with the sales.

[Lucan 196]

/\ this definately happens. The whole "please remove my bid" deal is rubbish. Having a friend bump up your auction is a risk in a live auction and I've seen it happen (and fail), but the risk on tradme is voided by having an opt out button, needs to be given the boot.

Edited October 27, 2010 by Blackie