qube 3570 Report post Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) so i had someone come into my shop and worked for 5 hours. (during the 5 hours, the amount of work done was equal to less than 30 minutes, so 4.5 hours of talking/explaining) at the end of the day i decided this person wasnt suitable for the role, so i told her. am i legally entitled to pay her for the 5 hours of 'work'? thanks edit: I told her that today was a "trial" and not even a training period before she began work, so she wasnt officially hired yet Edited October 8, 2012 by QUBE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bellicose 9 Report post Posted October 8, 2012 As long as you told her it was a "trial" then you have no obligation to pay her anything.......BUT, maybe pay her for a couple of hours work, just as a good will gesture. I'm just thinking if you give her nothing and say tough......nothing spreads faster than bad word of mouth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_ethrty-Andy_ 2132 Report post Posted October 8, 2012 + to bellicose Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qube 3570 Report post Posted October 8, 2012 i already decided to pay her out of goodwill just wanted to know what the law said about it. just another question: do i pay as normal for staff who is training for say 1-2 weeks? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
E30 325i Rag-Top 2959 Report post Posted October 8, 2012 I would suggest you get these things clarified before people do the "trial", you could be leaving yourself open to all sorts of problems if it is not clear of the arrangement beforehand. Something in writing would be a good idea. You can pay a "training rate" which is less than the minimum wage per hour, but you would have to pay all the hours worked at that rate. This would require a clear training plan which includes tasks to be learnt, how it can be shown the task can be carried out correctly, etc. Could be worth talking to an employment law expert, or failing that check out the Department of Labout web-site, it's full of good and well written information. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qube 3570 Report post Posted October 8, 2012 ^ a written agreement sounds like a good idea. i had a quick browse at DOL website but i didnt see much regarding training period pay etc. i will have a proper look sometime though.. cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kiwi535 538 Report post Posted October 8, 2012 ^ a written agreement sounds like a good idea. i had a quick browse at DOL website but i didnt see much regarding training period pay etc. i will have a proper look sometime though.. cheers regardless of how much "work" they did surely you must pay them unless you told them specifically you would not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffdunedin 8 Report post Posted October 8, 2012 i already decided to pay her out of goodwill just wanted to know what the law said about it. Good on ya for paying her, i would have assumed by law that it would be considered training and therefore would be paid out at contracted hourly rate or minimum wage otherwise... Like John said word of mouth can travel much faster than flicking her 60ish quid. Out of interest did none of this come across in the CV, interview etc? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RvT 9 Report post Posted October 8, 2012 A trial is usually the first 2 weeks of employment and there are laws governing the process you must go through if you elect to not employ him or her. There is also the new 90 law that has come into play but NOTE that if you want to exercise the 90 day law you MUST provide an employment agreement BEFORE the staff member starts work and they MUST sign it BEFORE they start work. If they start work at 9am and hand in the signed copy at 9.01am, then technically the 90 day law can't be invoked. As I employ about 150 staff, when faced with 'trialling' someone, it is easier to say to the potential employee that you will provide a day of CASUAL employment and pay them the negotiated rate and just feed them a day at a time before you enter a normal Employment Agreement with them. It gives you an easy exit without strings attached. In all cases, you should provide a simple letter stating it is casual employment and the rate of pay to the employee to sign or else you leave yourself open to potential issues. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qube 3570 Report post Posted October 9, 2012 so as long as there is mutual agreement, i could technically pay someone $1 an hour until officially hiring them....? haha.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RvT 9 Report post Posted October 9, 2012 so as long as there is mutual agreement, i could technically pay someone $1 an hour until officially hiring them....? haha.... Not necessarily. The minimum training wage standard kicks in, I believe, and secondly you technically have to pay PAYE on the person or you will be in breach of IRD. In these situations, it only goes tits up when you tell them to leave and they take out a PG against you for unfair dismissal then you are into $8k to $10k in lawyers bills plus pay the compliant s lawyer's bill plus loss of wages. Again, probably only a 1% chance the situation goes septic and you rely on the employee not to take a PG out on you. All this because you didn't have the paperwork in the first place set up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qube 3570 Report post Posted October 9, 2012 ah of course... damn.. sounds like a lot of iffy jiffy stuff that could happen, especially to those without any kind of info on such matter.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oscar90 0 Report post Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) ...As I employ about 150 staff... you dont happen to own a new world/paknsave do you? just being nosey really haha Edited October 9, 2012 by HT. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westy 614 Report post Posted October 9, 2012 ah of course... damn.. sounds like a lot of iffy jiffy stuff that could happen, especially to those without any kind of info on such matter.. Are you seriously considering employing people without knowing this stuff? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qube 3570 Report post Posted October 9, 2012 i understand how it goes in terms of a formal employment.. just wanted to know what the "rule" was for paying someone on trial... and that was answered in the above posts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RvT 9 Report post Posted October 10, 2012 you dont happen to own a new world/paknsave do you? just being nosey really haha Hahaha ... no sorry. Just a little bakery in the sticks ...i understand how it goes in terms of a formal employment.. just wanted to know what the "rule" was for paying someone on trial... and that was answered in the above posts I think it is great you ask these questions because experience from others will help you. It is the muppets who don't ask that get in trouble, then blame others for their lack of knowledge. Employ them as a 'Casual' and at worst case prepare a simple one pager stating that will cover your arse at minimum and get them to sign it so say they understand the situation. There are a few examples on the web for NZ Employment Agreements and just tweak the wording to state 'Casual' to clarify things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oscar90 0 Report post Posted October 10, 2012 Ahh i see. Thought you may have been related to the owners of new world rangiora so was goin to ask if I'd dealt with you in the past! Doesn't happen to be that artisan?? bakery out in rangiora...? Big supplier to a fast food chain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qube 3570 Report post Posted October 10, 2012 I think it is great you ask these questions because experience from others will help you. It is the muppets who don't ask that get in trouble, then blame others for their lack of knowledge. Employ them as a 'Casual' and at worst case prepare a simple one pager stating that will cover your arse at minimum and get them to sign it so say they understand the situation. There are a few examples on the web for NZ Employment Agreements and just tweak the wording to state 'Casual' to clarify things. ^this is basically the kind of response that actually helps. Thanks a lot for the info! one of many bimmersport community's advantages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RvT 9 Report post Posted October 10, 2012 Ahh i see. Thought you may have been related to the owners of new world rangiora so was goin to ask if I'd dealt with you in the past! Doesn't happen to be that artisan?? bakery out in rangiora...? Big supplier to a fast food chain Damm after 9 years on this board, I am exposed ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
