Know of an AKL tire/brake specialist open 31/12 or 01/01/14?

[yng_750 247]

i prefer to do my own dentistry so i can see the connection.

[kingkarl 136]

Why not ??

i'm surprised you're not getting this guy on as a consultant Glenn... he's clearly got it all figured out...

[Phil-540i 166]

i'm surprised you're not getting this guy on as a consultant Glenn... he's clearly got it all figured out...

Maybe he's a dentist........

I think Glenn raises a valid point though.............. ....umm throughout the thread really.......as does Juxu too.......

[Allanw 1071]

say you're paying what $15/h for labour (that's 60k per year salary!) so $65 in overhead and profit? That's extortion if you only provide basic wrench services.

Am I ready this right??? $15 an hour is $31200p.a.

Anybody being paid $15 and hour is NEVER EVER going to touch my car. A decent trained mechanic is making a LOT more than $15.

The business owner also has to pay holidays and sick leave, plus public holidays. It all adds up.

If you want to get really serious about charge out rates - When I was 19 (16 years ago) I was being charged out at $90 to $135 per hour for a technical repair type job, I got got a car and crap pay!

Now I don't get charged out at all, and make a lot more

[hotwire 352]

^^^^ With respect. To start throwing numbers around & arguing/justifying them & then admitting to using them only as an example doesn't wash. I do seriously take issue with a lot of what you have said.

I am only on wages in a small Auto Sparky business but I am fully aware of the costs that are involved in running the business. I am on realitively good money (I wouldn't get out of bed for $15 an hour, even 20 & barely for 25) It would have been 15 or more years ago when I was on $15 an hour

We charge out @ $72 + (par for the course here) & we need every $$ we can get to make it work.

Business costs - lease, rates, phone, insurances, wages etc etc...

Equipment costs

Then factoring in down time (& there ALWAYS is), quiet times, holidays etc & there needs to be a substantial margin between wages & charge out.

It is really no different for a decent mechanic either - they cannot now get away without up to date equipment. Gone of the days of a mechanic being any good without electrical knowledge/diagnosing ability, & the tools to practice with. Infact I maintain an Auto Sparky with a sound mechanical aptitude is better off than a mechanic that knows a little electrical. The bridge between between electrical & mechanical now is very murky at best. There is no real place now for a "basic" mechanic.

This nullifies somewhat your statement of only basic tools etc.

I have been in the game for a long time & seen substantial changes in this time, it is getting harder & harder to make a buck in the trade - there are no, or very few, "cream" jobs as there used to be 20 + years ago. Repairs are much more labour intensive due to component access & even overhaul times so there are not the same "swings & roundabouts" there used to be. There are now plenty of curved balls that "cost" time!

So, I do not agree that there should be a lesser charge for fitting brake pads - it still comes down to the competency of the technician as to the time they take & then charge. And, from a business point of view - this could be deemed one of those "cream" jobs.

Yes I agree you should have a good business model, but the "real" world is different to the "ideal" world.

Agree the market will dictate, but when all in the area are on the same page, & offering similar service, productivity will be dictated by the climate at that time. We are not always busy, but then again - nor is our competition at the corresponding moment in time.

[*Glenn* 854]

I totaly agree with Grant (hotwire). I also don't agree with this: " I'd be rather unhappy to pay $80/h for somebody to change the brake pads on my car because it's a low risk job that requires only elementary skill and tools" Taking wheels off and doing brakes is one of the highest risk jobs you can undertake. One interruption. like a phone call and you could end up killing someone. A high degree of skill, know-how and special tools are required on allot of late model vehicles as well. Scanners are required when replacing brakes on most of the late model cars now. Especially on cars with electronic hand brakes.

Knowing when to say NO to a job is a skill too. When you can see your exposure to risk could be too high ( for what ever reason ) This can apply to people supplying their own parts to do jobs, especially if the quality or brand is unknown. Sometimes it's better to say NO, have a coffee & read the paper

[Phil-540i 166]

I'll back everything Glenn said there.................that exactly hits the nail on the head, specially the comment bout brakes - I thought same when I first read what had been said........ditto too what Hotwire came out with - good stuff!

Dave has also raised some valid points at times though too, in fairness.........

I'm self-employed, doing something with vehicles the majority of the time, & I too get 1-off phone-calls from 'price-shoppers', & ya can tell by the questions they ask, & how they ask...... Much like Glenn, I'd sooner drink coffee, than do a job for cost, or have it costing me money - I've seen others do that & its a great way to go broke quick.......

In terms of whats a high risk / low risk 'job' on a motor vehicle - that's different things to different people depending on skill levels etc. From my perspective - it has absolutely amazed me watching the mechanical knowledge on motor vehicles, by drivers, decline rapidly & steadily over time, especially over the last 10 years. Basic skills, like checking oil, knowing how to change a tyre, etc etc, are no longer there in the majority of cases where drivers are 35 yrs old or younger.........and - its not a 'gender specific' thing either, like it may have once been......

[yng_750 247]

Someone inexperianced may twist the caliper to far back and wreck the hose or do the wheel up with a rattle gun and compromise the wheel bolts, or not notice the brake pads supplied are not right.

all of which can show up as an issue during hard braking at high speed.

You make the point that if they have an open spot they should be able to afford a labor only job and not charge much more than what their wages are.

you are sort of right that the other jobs that were scheduled will cover the overheads but in fairness why should the other customers be paying overheads and you not? they have also paid for parts so in fairness a labour only job should be charged at a higher rate.

the other consideration with labor only jobs, if you bring the car in for mechanical work and bring the wrong parts what is the mechanic going to do with your pulled apart car for the next week while you chase up the right part. i would be putting the car back together how it was and charging the customer full price per hour to do so.

people still dont understand that mechanical work is a professional service,why should they all treat you like a mate?

Edited December 2, 2013 by jason H

[M3_Power 636]

I once helped friend change brake pads on a car that he paid a $15/h "mechanic" to do ... the brake pads were on backwards (backing plate against the rotor and pad material on the piston backwards).

So by all means enjoy the level of workmanship you get from your $15/h mechanics.

Many moons ago I also paid a manufacturer mechanic to do a home jobbie for me on a Honda - replacing cambelts - now I can do those in like 2.5 to 3 hours on my own and that's usually the expected time it takes for someone that knows what they are doing. Relatively simple job, but with loads of stuff that can go wrong (points at the 14mm tensioner bolt) - well low and behold a single slip by this guy on the 14mm tensioner bolt and a second slip completely rounding it. With less than 50mm between the bolt and the chassis rail there was no way to get to it. It took him a total of 12 hours start to finish for the full cambelt job as the only way to get that bloody bolt out was to turn it with a cold chisel lying on his back swinging upwards. No doubt he was regretting charging me only $80 for the job afterwards. Moral of the story .. .sh*t can go wrong even if you know what you are doing.

Whilst charge out rate doesn't always = quality ... it at least usually ensures you have a come back should sh*t go wrong.

I've always said this to other friends ... Mechanics are a bit like lawyers, you get screwed either way, might as well make sure the person screwing you over knows what he or she is doing.

Edited December 2, 2013 by M3_Power

[M3_Power 636]

How so? Is there a legal advantage if you pay more for sh*t service?

Edit: Answer = 'No' :-/

I think you need a bit of a reality check to be honest (if I am blunt) but try it in real life mate .. .see how far you get with someone that you've paid $15/h on a job versus someone that charges legitimately and fairly with a proper invoice that pays the IRD and see the difference in treatment you get afterwards.

Then take it to the tribunal if you think it's worth while getting back your $15 ...

Respect flows both ways ... if you are forever searching for the best bargain rather than the best service, you'll soon build up a reputation as the person that just wants everything for next to nothing. Build up a good relationship with a good shop and you might find that sometimes they'll just help you out without even charging you $15.

And before you think I am talking out of my arse ... I won't even bother going into how wrong your maths is with your estimates on workshop costs ... I have multiple friends that run some of the largest dealership workshops in Auckland and they would laugh at your claims and figures on costs.

I do agree that cars are now made harder and harder to be worked on by backyard mechanics and joe blogs ... but that's probably as a result of people willing to charge $15/h to compete with factory trained technicians, so manufacturers are now in need of making it harder for that to happen to protect dealership profit margins. Think about that.

Edited December 2, 2013 by M3_Power

[yng_750 247]

Just to clarify when i say overheads im talking about, rent, rates, power, insurance, specialist tools, employment contracts, wages, public holiday pay, right down to the toilet paper in the bathroom.

[Phil-540i 166]

This thread is pure gold - primo $hit now..........

We soooooooooooooooo need a pop-corn vendor in here................

Tom - one of the things that severely f#cks me off ever so very slightly, is paying factory trained parts fitters technicians premium price to service a vehicle 'by the book' while its under warranty, as dictated by the manufacturer, & then having the ba$tards cut corners by not doing some stuff...........dealership profit margins coupled with fixed price servicing maybe??

This, happens regularly...........trouble is if you've got no mechanical knowledge you can't see what they have skipped........

[Phil-540i 166]

Paying more doesn't buy you more rights.

True & valid point.............

[Phil-540i 166]

I blame Tristan............................... who's probably currently overseas buying his tyres & brake pads...............haha!!!

It's actually getting better as long as everybody stays civil!

No guarantees, haha!! Those of us south of Bombay don't really do group hugs.............

[yng_750 247]

No guarantees, haha!! Those of us south of Bombay don't really do group hugs.............

more of a "family" hug. about halfway between the bretheren and the bains.

well thats how it rolls between masterton and taupo.

[Phil-540i 166]

more of a "family" hug. about halfway between the bretheren and the bains.

well thats how it rolls between masterton and taupo.

Good thing you're Taupo end of that then, cos I'd heard that between Masterton & Carterton it rolls into a 'cousin hug'........................

[hybrid 1043]

Kind of staying out of this ... but have seen the people who want everything for f**kall all of the time with nothing coming back the other direction. And yeah Tom you're right, they don't last long and do get a reputation pretty quick among shops. They then wonder why they get the cold shoulder all the time. The unofficial shitlist does exist.

[hotwire 352]

Umm, a paid mechanic shouldn't be taking phone calls when they're being paid to do mechanical things...

Not sure how you'd kill someone changing brake pads either unless you were being careless... care to elaborate?

To pick up on this, again with respect - that is in the "ideal" world. The real world, in a small business, is a different kettle of fish. There are interuptions ALL the time. I have always been in this situation - phone calls, customers, urgent call outs (assuming the worked on car is not immediately required) Your model would work in a large franchise workshop where a mechanic is issued with a specific job from start to finish. I often get calls with customers wanting to speak to me, many straight to my mobile. This is the reality of a small business.

Along with electrical, I have done sh*t loads of mechanical over the years, & have often had 3 or more jobs on the go at one time - cars in various states of disassembly. It requires a logistic sequential approach & re checking everything to confirm all bases covered.

[qube 3570]

^ don't know exact figures but roughly starts around $100p/h for a "old model" like an e36 then maybe upto $200 for a f30?

Someone else will probably clarify this pretty quick

[qube 3570]

Variable rates sounds good in theory but in application or practice I doubt it will be very practical.

Also the type of work or level of difficulty is different for each mechanic, so for the same job if an expert does it and takes him 1 hour it costs say $100 but a trainee or apprentice does it takes him 3 hours but an hourly rate of say $50. Total $150.

Just too difficult to apply. And one rule for all eliminates confusion and arguments between different customers I suppose..

[Phil-540i 166]

Warrenty in that case is for the product being free of defects though isn't it, not the install........?? Installer, irrespective of what logo is on their overalls, has to stand behind their installation job......??

Variable rates sounds good in theory but in application or practice I doubt it will be very practical.
Also the type of work or level of difficulty is different for each mechanic, so for the same job if an expert does it and takes him 1 hour it costs say $100 but a trainee or apprentice does it takes him 3 hours but an hourly rate of say $50. Total $150.
Just too difficult to apply. And one rule for all eliminates confusion and arguments between different customers I suppose..

Re this - my experience is whether it's the apprentice with the cap on backwards, or the foreman - both get charged out the same irrespective of experience / qualifications etc. Some places will sometimes 'suck a bit of time' tagged as 'workshop' if some-one has taken a bit tooooo long to do a job, but my experience is we were all leaned on a bit to be charging out 95% of our work week......

[qube 3570]

That sounds reasonable. Say you buy a new alpine headdeck from repco and get it installed at say rapid radio. They will stand by their worksmanship if fault is in the installation. And if there is a manufacturing fault in the unit then you take it up with repco who will replace it who will then get a refund with alpine. It's not repco or alpine that is at liberty to provide refunds or replacements if you take it to a random sparky who accidentally fried a fuse or wire inside te headdeck while installing it then claims he's not at fault. So I guess bmw is okay to require you to get that sun blind installed at an authorized shop/installer

[*Glenn* 854]

BMW parts are covered by a 1 year and in some cases 2 year defect warranty...irrespective of who fits it. If the part gets damaged or fails because of poor installation by an installer.. it's the installers responsibility

Edited December 3, 2013 by *Glenn*

[qube 3570]

And then we come back to say that an installer who charged $80ph is more likely to back their worksmanship and correct faults whereas someone who charged $15 will probably just start pointing fingers. Then you have the hassle of taking it to a tribunal or what not since technically the same law applies.

Moral of the story: you get what you pay for.

[Phil-540i 166]

That sounds reasonable. Say you buy a new alpine headdeck from repco and get it installed at say rapid radio. They will stand by their worksmanship if fault is in the installation. And if there is a manufacturing fault in the unit then you take it up with repco who will replace it who will then get a refund with alpine. It's not repco or alpine that is at liberty to provide refunds or replacements if you take it to a random sparky who accidentally fried a fuse or wire inside te headdeck while installing it then claims he's not at fault. So I guess bmw is okay to require you to get that sun blind installed at an authorized shop/installer

I think the point Glenn is making (and IMO he's 100% right), is in, say the above case with the sun blind, if the BMW 'authorised shop / installer' f#cks up the install, its still actually that authorised shop / installer that's paying for the screw-up - not BMW themselves........as the part they supplied, was fine.

If I want to push the point, then I'm fairly certain that legally, I can actually take that to Glenn to get installed. Glenn will then stand behind what he does. My sun blind then dies, fades, develops electrical AIDS, whatever - its going back to who I brought it off...........