Traction control kicks in round corners

[greenalleycat 1]

Hey guys,

I drive an '03 6spd 330d and have been having issues with it recently. The alignment seems to go out very rapidly when compared to other cars within my family (even our '03 330i, my old car, still feels fine) and on my last alignment I was told that it's dialed out as far as it can be to try and correct its alignment. It has since got out again in the same direction (pulls left). However a new issue has come up. When taking right hand bends at 'speed' the traction control kicks in. As an example, on the way to my family bach (holiday house) there is a sweeping right hand 65kph bend that I normally take at 100+. However every time I've driven it recently the traction control kicks in at anything above ~90kph. Even on corners where this doesn't happen, the handling doesn't feel right. As a factory M-Sport it should handle better than the plain 330i, but after driving the 330i during the weekend it is definitely not the case. I took that same corner at ~100kph and it felt rock solid. This was consistent through other corners on the trip too; the 330i just handled so much better than my 330d, which shouldn't be the case.

Now undoubtedly I have a bad alignment and that will be fixed. However it feels like there are additional issues - why does my alignment go so far out, why is it always one direction, why is my traction control kicking in? The car is going into the dealership for the airbag recall in a few weeks and I will ask them to look at it then (they're great guys there and we get on well so I don't anticipate any issues) but I would like to try and gather some info beforehand.

Cheers

Edited October 29, 2014 by alleycat

[KwS 2425]

id be checking to see if any arms are bent or bushes are poked.

[greenalleycat 1]

I can't help but imagine they're related. How many km's are you getting between alignments, I'd measure this in distance traveled not time passed.

Have all of the suspension components and bushes been inspected to confirm they're good? Have you owned the car since new? Is the chassis straight?

Does that model have a LSD?

I've had it aligned twice in the time I've owned it, which is about ~16,000km. No real inspection. My friend and I have been under the car and had a look but tbh I don't think I could tell anything short of absolute destruction. Haven't been specifically checked to my knowledge. No idea on the chassis, I don't think it's been in a crash though. It handled a lot better when I got it, though didn't feel 100% compared to my previous e46... though that may have been cos it needed an alignment, tire pressures fixing and had the front wheels on the rear -.- It has definitely deteriorated in recent times though. No LSD unfortunately, that was M3 only I believe.

id be checking to see if any arms are bent or bushes are poked.

Ok good to know, I'll have to ask a mechanic to do that because I lack the expertise. It's going into to Jeff Gray for the airbag recall soon so I'll ask them to look around

Edited October 29, 2014 by alleycat

[Driftracewake 22]

Has it got the staggered Msport wheels and are they in the right corners?

I'm sure the tyre shop has the staggered tyre setup the right way around, but they could be on the wrong wheels, ie there could be two wider wheels on one side?

[greenalleycat 1]

Okay, something is certainly wrong. I'm quite surprised that the people that did the alignment weren't able to identify something that seems to be quite obviously wrong.

Don't be so sure of what you don't know! If you can get the car up in the air, even jack stands will do, you can do at least 60% of what a pro can do. If you look at all the linkages and check that they're visually the same left to right that's a good start. All of the connected components will have bushes or bearings and you can visually inspect these for dryness, leaking, cracks, deformation etc.

That type of inspection will give you a "reasonable" feel for where the problem might (or might not) be. Hopefully it would allow you to narrow in on an area so when you do go to a pro it might cost you less.

Well, since you're there it can't hurt and a basic suspension inspection shouldn't cost you anything if you're a returning customer.

Yea I've got a jack + stands and a reasonably knowledgeable friend coming round this weekend, so I guess we have some successful exam procrastination to do! Beyond investigating anything rubber we can see is there anything else you'd suggest we look at?

Fingers crossed Jeff Gray don't bleed me dry haha. I generally get on well with them so I hope they take pity..

[greenalleycat 1]

Has it got the staggered Msport wheels and are they in the right corners?

I'm sure the tyre shop has the staggered tyre setup the right way around, but they could be on the wrong wheels, ie there could be two wider wheels on one side?

I wouldn't be too sure, when I did my first alignment they f**ked it up and I had to correct it myself. I checked again this arvo though, definitely running the correct setup. Unless the wheels have different widths... any idea if a stock 330d Msport w/ Style 135s 255/35/18 rear 225/40/18 fronts has different rim widths?

[KwS 2425]

it will be staggered width, and generally you should be able to tell by eye if one has more "dish" than the others

[greenalleycat 1]

it will be staggered width, and generally you should be able to tell by eye if one has more "dish" than the others

Alright, just did a very unscientific measurement by torchlight. Both fronts ~235mm both rears ~245mm at the points I measured. So I think the rims are at least right.

My front tires are really low, maybe 2.5mm left, how much of an impact is this likely to have..?

[Driftracewake 22]

I wouldn't be too sure, when I did my first alignment they f**ked it up and I had to correct it myself. I checked again this arvo though, definitely running the correct setup. Unless the wheels have different widths... any idea if a stock 330d Msport w/ Style 135s 255/35/18 rear 225/40/18 fronts has different rim widths?

They will be different widths, I've seen it before, because those wheels come in both staggered and non staggered setups, some tyre shops don't realise and will fit one or both of the wider ones on the front.

The style 135s don't have dish so they can be very hard to tell by eye if they are fitted correctly. Best to pull off a pair and check the back of the wheel.

You may notice one of the 225 front tyres has more sidewall stretch than the other, that would be a dead giveaway.

Also what's the condition and brand of your tyres? They could well be near the end of the life and have worn unevenly.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Driftracewake

[cliffdunedin 8]

id be checking to see if any arms are bent or bushes are poked.

This is what i'd be checking especially if you have hit a curb or a knock from the side of the wheels... your symptoms sounds very similar to a car i used to have and that was the issue.

[greenalleycat 1]

They will be different widths, I've seen it before, because those wheels come in both staggered and non staggered setups, some tyre shops don't realise and will fit one or both of the wider ones on the front.

The style 135s don't have dish so they can be very hard to tell by eye if they are fitted correctly. Best to pull off a pair and check the back of the wheel.

You may notice one of the 225 front tyres has more sidewall stretch than the other, that would be a dead giveaway.

Also what's the condition and brand of your tyres? They could well be near the end of the life and have worn unevenly.

I'll have another check in the light of day tomorrow, but I think the rims are ok this time. Fronts near dead, backs near new. Champiro HPX 225/40/18 fronts, Nankang NS20 255/35/18 rears.

This is what i'd be checking especially if you have hit a curb or a knock from the side of the wheels... your symptoms sounds very similar to a car i used to have and that was the issue.

Well I've avoided curbs as far as I know, but I've sure hit a lot of potholes :/ hard to avoid them all these days. I'll ask them to take a look, thanks.

[greenalleycat 1]

Additional symptoms I've forgotten to mention:

- Pulls left generally, though doesn't feel like I'm fighting the wheel

- Sometimes when I break sharply the wheel pulls left

- No clunking etc that I've noticed

- Feels less steady at highway speeds than my old 330i

[greenalleycat 1]

You sound like an expert at this...both the car inspection and the procrastination! Thanks very much for the advice

[rowans17 19]

Sounds like a pretty serious issue Mike..... Cut your losses and move on. Got a mate that will trade it for an 04 Legacy?

[greenalleycat 1]

Sounds like a pretty serious issue Mike..... Cut your losses and move on. Got a mate that will trade it for an 04 Legacy?

I was wondering when you'd turn up and start spewing your rubbish Swaps for the VW Escargot?

Edit: You should come fix my car for me pls. Also refund my SP2 pen

Edited October 29, 2014 by alleycat

[rowans17 19]

Yeah been BMW-less for a while but still like spewing rubbish on all corners of the internet. I'll race you in the VW for pinkslips - Winner takes all.

Also yeah sounds good.

[Neal 544]

Could it be that the torque from your 330d is simply overwelming your tyres ? Used to have a similar issue with my M3 which has less torque. Suspect the rear tyres (255s) had gone hard. Replacement tyres sorted issue. ( current gen sticky tyre)

[greenalleycat 1]

Could it be that the torque from your 330d is simply overwelming your tyres ? Used to have a similar issue with my M3 which has less torque. Suspect the rear tyres (255s) had gone hard. Replacement tyres sorted issue. ( current gen sticky tyre)

I hope not, they're basically brand new ;( However even comparing my car to when I first got it, something is different. I used to drive one corner at 110kph fine, now at 90kph TC kicks in

[jordan23 16]

I had the same issue with my E46 M3, after sensor checking and several other things it turned out to be natural tyre wear and the sensors picking up the different rotational speeds because of tread thickness. Didn't realise they were so sensitive.

Replaced the front tyres as they were getting down and problem solved.

Just food for thought.

[greenalleycat 1]

I had the same issue with my E46 M3, after sensor checking and several other things it turned out to be natural tyre wear and the sensors picking up the different rotational speeds because of tread thickness. Didn't realise they were so sensitive.

Replaced the front tyres as they were getting down and problem solved.

Just food for thought.

Interesting. Given the disparity between fronts and rears in terms of tread depth, there may be something in this. Cheers

[Neal 544]

Come to think of it the fronts had about 1.5 to 2 mm and the rears had 3.5 mm. But in the M3 smg you can adapt the dsc for for disparit tyre sizes by pulling back on both smg paddles for 50 meters at over 60 kph. I had done this.

Not sure how tyre change adaption would work for 330d ( or manual M3).

Maybe try holding down the tyre pressure monitor button whilst moving for 8-10 seconds ? The tps will re-learn the rolling circumference for each tyre . Maybe it updates the dsc system ?

[greenalleycat 1]

Come to think of it the fronts had about 1.5 to 2 mm and the rears had 3.5 mm. But in the M3 smg you can adapt the dsc for for disparit tyre sizes by pulling back on both smg paddles for 50 meters at over 60 kph. I had done this.

Not sure how tyre change adaption would work for 330d ( or manual M3).

Maybe try holding down the tyre pressure monitor button whilst moving for 8-10 seconds ? The tps will re-learn the rolling circumference for each tyre . Maybe it updates the dsc system ?

I have no tyre pressure sensor, so unfortunately I don't think I can attribute it to that

[Dogballs 115]

If the car has DSC over ASC it will have a steering angle sensor... if the alignment process as "upset" the steering wheel position it can cause significant issues with your traction control.

If it moves beyond a certain limit, it must be recalibrated.. Jeff Gray should be able to sort that out..

[greenalleycat 1]

If the car has DSC over ASC it will have a steering angle sensor... if the alignment process as "upset" the steering wheel position it can cause significant issues with your traction control.

If it moves beyond a certain limit, it must be recalibrated.. Jeff Gray should be able to sort that out..

Sweet I'll ask them to check that out - cheers

[greenalleycat 1]

Well just had a look... as far as we could tell with limited knowledge, the bearings/bushings etc are ok. My front tires are really f**ked though, very worn & uneven wearing. WoF is next month so will replace them after exams. Also noted when we turned the wheel hard to the right there was a hissing sound - like air in my power steering fluid?