Insurance - should all the old cars be worth the same?

[tonylauno1 7]

I have a 2000 e46 328ci which is only worth around $5k.

The car has new

- bushings everywhere (engine, trans, subframe, diff, rtab, fcab, anti-swaybar + links)
- new cooling system (radiator, all belts & pulleys, waterpump, thermostat + housing, expansion tank, fan clutch)

- new shocks, springs + adjustable front & rear camber

- new transmission oil + filter

- e36 M3 alloy wheels

- motorsport steering-wheel with paddleshift
- upgraded sound system
- new paint job

So lets say the unfortunate happens and insurance company will pay me the $8k i am insured for.

The 328ci replacement that i can buy will be high kms too and i doubt anyone would have done all the bushings & cooling system. It would cost me more than what the insurance company pays me.

My issue is, how do i get insurance company to insure it for more?
Should I be insured for more, or are all these considered maintenance so I should not be insured for more?

I think it's unfair that all the old cars are worth the same, especially when some have gone through and replaced all these parts to make the car drive like new again.

Should a highly maintained car be worth the same as a car that is not being taken care of?

Maybe i have chosen the wrong car to have it maintained this way, it's not a Porsche or a Ferrari, there are certainly many things i could have gone away with.

I never thought about this when i was just paying for these things to be done (the bushing, cooling system & shocks were done over three years), maybe i would be better off to have done minimal maintenance and put the money towards a e92.

[Olaf 3309]

I just tell them it's a very well-maintained example, and insure it at the top-end of their range. Going beyond that requires valuations.... and if you put your car as it is now on TradeMe, would it fetch top-market PLUS more for the good parts?

Probably not; file under "sunk cost" and enjoy driving your well-maintained vehicle.

HTH

PS - you'd still have to do the same to an e92! as well as electrical water pump, right?

Edited March 4, 2016 by Olaf

[KwS 2421]

most of the stuff you have done would be considered maintenance by the insurer, and wouldnt factor into the insured value. The wheels, steering wheel, sounds and paint will have to be declared as they are modifications, and may increase the value of the car (or more likely, the premium due to increase in risk).

I generally just insure the car for a couple of grand more than i paid, and its usually not an issue. If its something special, then it might be worth getting a pro valuation and having that on record.

In my experience, insurers just go off straight book/market value for most cars, giving a set range depending on km of the car (high km will be low end of the scale, low km will be higher end). Ive never had anyone ask me if its been well maintained, just that there are no known issues.

[Allanw 1071]

AMI wouldn't insure the car at agreed value, for what I paid for the last car I brought...

It was a prefacelift, in a crossover year, so I had to have it insured for 25% MORE than I paid, if I wanted agreed value

DONE!

It's all based on numbers, and not details, though I've "discussed" values with the local AMI branch manager, and we've come to values suitable to both of us. They know what they can do, and you know what you want. I can't see it working with a call-centre pleb though.

[BMTHUG 1039]

I sold my 1999 328ci for 8500 today. Was a very clean example. Had it insured for 10 k agreed value and had a seperate policy on my wheels for 4 k. I don't know if the insurance company would of paid me as much as I got but like yours mine was very very well maintained

[hotwire 352]

I revalued the "agreed" value for the E39 at the last policy renewel - AMI.

It had been sitting at about 12K so was way over the top for current market.

In discussion with them I was told that they would pay out the agreed value as that agreed was agreed - dunno that I would have held true if push had come to shove at 12k.

They left it to me to nominate the price I wanted to agree at, cant recall offhand what that is but is about 2-3k up on an average e39, based on if sh*t happened - I would want to get another car of equal standard - much better than most of them around. Then they just charged me accordingly.

[Ahmedsinc 414]

most of the stuff you have done would be considered maintenance by the insurer, and wouldnt factor into the insured value. The wheels, steering wheel, sounds and paint will have to be declared as they are modifications, and may increase the value of the car (or more likely, the premium due to increase in risk).

Paint does not qualify as an insurance risk, only need to be noted if the original colour has been changed. Any bolt-on additions to a car that are under 2k in value and do not require certification were not a requirement for disclosure, according to AMI when I renewed my policies last month.

Everything else that has been mentioned are maintenance items. However if you're willing to pay a higher premium then I'm sure they'll gladly take your money. Just don't expect to get it back if you ever have to claim

[KwS 2421]

As he is a bit vague on "new paint job" i wasnt sure if it was original color or some flashy chameleon paint job or something

State required that i disclosed everything to them that wasnt original, and only when it exceeded 20% of insured value did they "claim" to have an issue with them. Mind you, i did also find out after years of insurance with them and many modified cars, they hadnt been insuring any of the modifications correctly anyway.... so i dont know.

[tonylauno1 7]

As he is a bit vague on "new paint job" i wasnt sure if it was original color or some flashy chameleon paint job or something

State required that i disclosed everything to them that wasnt original, and only when it exceeded 20% of insured value did they "claim" to have an issue with them. Mind you, i did also find out after years of insurance with them and many modified cars, they hadnt been insuring any of the modifications correctly anyway.... so i dont know.

new paint job is the original color, i might have gotten away with a chameleon paint job on a Lamborghini something LP something

i have told insurance company of my modifications then 2 years later they tell me they have no details of my modifications(i was fuming, i thought my car had not been insured if something had happened), lucky i still have the email so showed them then they said it's fine, premium stays the same, they do not need to be declared, i am covered for everything, which contradicts the fine prints.

I really wondered will they pay for replacement e36 M3 alloy wheel?

If you can find another set on Trademe it will be cheap, but if you buy from BMW then it will cost heaps.

[tonylauno1 7]

I just tell them it's a very well-maintained example, and insure it at the top-end of their range. Going beyond that requires valuations.... and if you put your car as it is now on TradeMe, would it fetch top-market PLUS more for the good parts?

Probably not; file under "sunk cost" and enjoy driving your well-maintained vehicle.

HTH

PS - you'd still have to do the same to an e92! as well as electrical water pump, right?

most of the stuff you have done would be considered maintenance by the insurer, and wouldnt factor into the insured value. The wheels, steering wheel, sounds and paint will have to be declared as they are modifications, and may increase the value of the car (or more likely, the premium due to increase in risk).

I generally just insure the car for a couple of grand more than i paid, and its usually not an issue. If its something special, then it might be worth getting a pro valuation and having that on record.

In my experience, insurers just go off straight book/market value for most cars, giving a set range depending on km of the car (high km will be low end of the scale, low km will be higher end). Ive never had anyone ask me if its been well maintained, just that there are no known issues.

AMI wouldn't insure the car at agreed value, for what I paid for the last car I brought...

It was a prefacelift, in a crossover year, so I had to have it insured for 25% MORE than I paid, if I wanted agreed value

DONE!

It's all based on numbers, and not details, though I've "discussed" values with the local AMI branch manager, and we've come to values suitable to both of us. They know what they can do, and you know what you want. I can't see it working with a call-centre pleb though.

People buying would not appreciate all the good parts, they probably won't know the difference. It would be easier to sell.

I did get a pro valuation, i asked the insurance company who is a pro, they said a car dealer and i got one. So they have insured it for more, even though it's agreed value, i have a feeling if something happens, they could always say the agreed value is way over the top-end of market value therefore we will give you market value only.

Maybe i will visit my local AMI Branch too and have this discussion with them and see how they respond.

[tonylauno1 7]

I sold my 1999 328ci for 8500 today. Was a very clean example. Had it insured for 10 k agreed value and had a seperate policy on my wheels for 4 k. I don't know if the insurance company would of paid me as much as I got but like yours mine was very very well maintained

WOW $8500 - give us some details, can we still see the ad on Trademe for details and photo?

$8500 is a lot, never thought it could go for that much.

How much were you paying for the $4k wheels?

I wondered the same thing, would they really pay out $10k.

So what are you going to replace the 328ci with?

[tonylauno1 7]

Paint does not qualify as an insurance risk, only need to be noted if the original colour has been changed. Any bolt-on additions to a car that are under 2k in value and do not require certification were not a requirement for disclosure, according to AMI when I renewed my policies last month.

Everything else that has been mentioned are maintenance items. However if you're willing to pay a higher premium then I'm sure they'll gladly take your money. Just don't expect to get it back if you ever have to claim

Lots of people use AMI, myself included, they must be cheaper.

I told them about my modifications, they were listed over 2k for most however they didn't care, said all in insured, i should call up and check if they were noted on my file. Just thought about it now, if it's not listed on my file then i'm probably not insured.

exactly what does it mean by insured, if they get stolen i would be replaced with an equal value audio system?

If my car is stolen, they would pay me what the car is worth + audio, wheels etc?

[tonylauno1 7]

At the end of the day, yes, these are maintenance items, i should file it under "sunk cost".
It is wrong that the owner of a badly maintained car gets the same replacement value if something happened to their car.

By the way Olaf, i was looking for e92 electric water pump, and the N54 & N55 engine's water pump is electrically driven instead of belt driven so it's not an extra item.

Yes, i would still need to do all the things i did in the e92, however in hindsight the alternative plan might have been replacing only what was broken, and mine e46 wasn't broken yet. so sell e46, rather than spending money, then get a e92 and the plan continues.

[Olaf 3309]

It is wrong that the owner of a badly maintained car gets the same replacement value if something happened to their car.

By the way Olaf, i was looking for e92 electric water pump, and the N54 & N55 engine's water pump is electrically driven instead of belt driven so it's not an extra item.

Yes, i would still need to do all the things i did in the e92, however in hindsight the alternative plan might have been replacing only what was broken, and mine e46 wasn't broken yet. so sell e46, rather than spending money, then get a e92 and the plan continues.

"wrong"? That's a very strong opinion!

Simply, insurance is business. The client pays some money to cover risk of loss. The company accepts fees as 'premiums', accepting the risk. They have super statistics known as actuarial tables to help them assess the risk. They're not in the business of judgement as to whether or not the car is maintained above and beyond WoF standard. They don't view folks operating their cars dispassionately as 'bad people'. It's simply a numbers game.

Re N54 & N55, of course the e92's electric water pump is not an 'extra' item; it's just another added-complexity maintenance item that one needs to get ahead of. If you were planning on running an e92 on break-fix rather than planned/preventative maintenance, I predict there will be tears before bedtime.

cheers

Olaf

[BMTHUG 1039]

WOW $8500 - give us some details, can we still see the ad on Trademe for details and photo?

$8500 is a lot, never thought it could go for that much.

How much were you paying for the $4k wheels?

I wondered the same thing, would they really pay out $10k.

So what are you going to replace the 328ci with?

 

Yeah I didnt either but I had done a lot of work to it, rebuilt the engine completely etc. I used a broker to sort my insurance out. Here is the trademe add http://www.trademe.co.nz/1039428592

Lots of people use AMI, myself included, they must be cheaper.

I told them about my modifications, they were listed over 2k for most however they didn't care, said all in insured, i should call up and check if they were noted on my file. Just thought about it now, if it's not listed on my file then i'm probably not insured.

exactly what does it mean by insured, if they get stolen i would be replaced with an equal value audio system?

If my car is stolen, they would pay me what the car is worth + audio, wheels etc?

[KwS 2421]

i have told insurance company of my modifications then 2 years later they tell me they have no details of my modifications(i was fuming, i thought my car had not been insured if something had happened),

This is exactly what happened to me, and the reason i left State and took all my insurance to a private broker. By word of the contract with State, they could have voided my car insurance if anything happened, because the car was modified and they didnt have the modification details correctly recorded (or recorded at all in same cases).

[Ahmedsinc 414]

exactly what does it mean by insured, if they get stolen i would be replaced with an equal value audio system?

If my car is stolen, they would pay me what the car is worth + audio, wheels etc?

They'll pay market value unless youre paying for replacement cost - not sure they offer it in all cases.

If your car is pinched you'll get market value less your excess - 3/5ths of feck all really - audio equipment is nearly worthless the second it gets installed, so I wouldn't bother trying to insure it. You'll only be paying a stupid sum for a service that practically amounts to extortion. What it really boils down to, is the only person that thinks your car is worth something is you - the only exception being highly desirable classics (E30 M3 for example)

Edited March 6, 2016 by Ahmedsinc