Built M52B28 Vs. S50B30

[E36MSport 7]

Does anyone have any input of the logistics of either building up an existing M52 Vs the cost of just swapping in a known good S50? I'm curious it the cost of building the M52 would outgrow the cost of the S50 and the performance would never really get to the same level. Seems like cams alone are going to be over $1000, then exhaust, then tuning, then intake, then ?$?$?$?$?$?.

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2136]

328i and the 3.0L M3 are the same underneath from what i know,

and E36 M3 are the cheapest they have ever been and probably at the bottom they will ever be, so now would be the time to get the keys to an S50 as well.

so if you have a 328 then swap an engine in maybe, but anything else better off to just buy an E36 M3

[E36_Turbo 84]

S50 bits and pieces will always fetch higher $$ Vs a M52, assuming M52B28. However when you mention "built"...M52....unless you are going Forced Induction, don't waste the money. an S50B30 / 32 is good value for money, and should be relatively straight forward, Turn-Key packages available. However as mentioned above, might be better to keep it stock and source an E36 M3 whilst market value is at an all time low....you will be surprised at how the $$ keep creeping up as you chase the M-Power feel / and HP upgrading a standard E36.

[E36MSport 7]

Thanks for that. I already have a 328 that's in great shape. I was debating just selling and buying an M3 which is feasible. My thoughts on buying another car though seem to stumble when I look into what a used M3 will cost + what maintenance will be needed + upgrades. If I buy something else there are going to be a lot of unknowns like clutch, suspension, diff, etc. If I spend that coin on my 328 then I can essentially have a car that will come out like new and spec'ed exactly how I want it. The money that even a cheap M3 demands will get a pretty fair amount of work done to my current toy.

[KwS 2429]

It depends on which S50 you are referring to. A euro S50 is a great engine best found in an M3 where it has the right brakes and rear end to optimise its power delivery.

The S50 B30 US is a cast iron piece of crap in comparison A well tuned M52 B28 will equal or better the power out of a US S50 and it is a lot lighter so you retain the perfect balance of the 328 assuming you have an alloy engine.

S50 B30 US - 179 kW

Hot M52 B28 - 172 to 190kW

S50 Euro - 210 kW

If you are thinking of an S50 B30 Euro swap, just buy the M3

Factory ratings for the S50s, sure, but wheel ratings are a lot different. My healthy S50B30 'Euro' made 179kw atw which is inline with others. Is that 172-190kw at the wheel or flywheel?

[E36MSport 7]

Where are you guys finding these super low priced M3's? Only reason that I'm considering it is because people want moon beams for them and I just want a fun toy. Already have the ZF 5 speed and after looking at upgrades for the M52B28 by the time I get cams, exhaust, tuning and look at a 3.0 rotating assy. I'm over what a second hand S50 cost.

[E36MSport 7]

Which S50 US or Euro, perhaps if you outline what you are trying to achieve you might get some useful responses?

i.e some where north of 160kW or 175kW or at least 200kW ??? and are we talking a real drivers car or just a power brag ?

Sorry mate. Looking at a euro spec engine. I've done some mod cars in the past and it seems the further from factory you get the more fussy they are. I don't want do deal with random bs however do want a good, quick, spirited ride. I don't really care about resale value. That's why the S50 euro is looking like a good option. Reasonable price + factory reliability and all the power I would gain from messing with the M52.

[E36MSport 7]

Depends on the mods you have done and how they have been done.

It is easy to get north of 160kW with no internal modes

180kW is possible with cams and intake modes and a re-map

None of these make the engine fussy or difficult or unreliable. The advantage of the B28 or B30 over the S 50 Euro is that they run hydraulic valve adjustment, mild lift and are therefore pretty low maintenance.

The S series engines use solid lifters which are higher maintenance you should be paying about $1,200 a time for a proper service every 10,000km

Longer term the M52 is a lower cost very reliable option, which is why they are popular for mild tuning .

Mine is at 168kW at the moment heading to 180 + when I get around to cams which will be triggered by finishing my intake manifold.

What are your thoughts on the reliability of the aluminium block? Any fears of a scratch in the nikasil and having to find another?

[E36MSport 7]

Given the rings can't scratch it and there are examples over 20 years old and done 500,000 km plus, the fear of nikasil and other coated alloy technologies is unfounded.

The advantages of better heat transfer and lower weight far outweigh urban myths and neurosis - that's why most advanced modern engines use coated alloy technologies.

Thanks for that. I've been a bit paranoid. What's your suggested path to performance with the M52? I have just been learning some of the tuning software so have the ability to remap the Siemens ECU to suit mods. From what I've looked into the M50 manifold is a bit of a wash for driveability.

[polley 916]

M50 manifold

Oh oh, you said it now.... This thread is now doomed.

[Nobimmer 694]

I had a m52b28 stroked to 3l with m54 crank etc and that had 235hp at the wheels. That was with bigger injectors, bigger throttle body, m50 manifold, aggressive cams,adjustable fpr, exhaust link ecu etc etc.

If I was doing it again I would just buy an s50b32 and not muck around. It would be cheaper that's for sure.

[polley 916]

The s50 is a lot heavier though being iron block.

[KwS 2429]

I too love throwing around random numbers and calling them power figures. Flywheel figures are also a waste of time.

[polley 916]

I too love throwing around random numbers and calling them power figures. Flywheel figures are also a waste of time.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2963]

^^ Not always the case, especially in terms of power and performance.

Later componentry is often developed more with emissions in mind, and as a result de-tune, or strangle the engine.

I'm not saying this is the case for the M50, but I have certainly found this with other items.