Suspension bush options for e87 130i?

[PRC 7]

Keen to hear recommendations ahead of replacing worn dampers and suspension bushes on the 130i. 

After initial research, I’m leaning towards Bilstein B4 dampers. But what about bushes, bump stops, &c.? Do aftermarket brands such as Superpro offer handling and ride quality benefits over OEM items, or are they false economy for road use? Finally, what other parts should be checked/replaced at the same time? FYI, a new set of Michelin Pilot Sport 4 (stock sizes) will be fitted too.

[Jacko 2157]

It depends on what you are after. I have superpro bushes in mine, the full kit, everything is a PU bush. I think its fine for road use, and it did wonders for tightening up the suspension (even on 35 profile 19" tyres). However I have friends who think its was to harsh for a road car. 

If you do want to go PU bushes, Superpros design and quality are way above anything else Ive seen.

Bumpstops - OEM unless your shock kit includes them. The rear shock mounts (top and bottom) are also wear items, and again, OEM is the best bet. There are also a number of spherical bushes in the ass end suspension, which are often the first to go, replace them with OEM. 

[PRC 7]

38 minutes ago, Jacko said:

It depends on what you are after. I have superpro bushes in mine, the full kit, everything is a PU bush. I think its fine for road use, and it did wonders for tightening up the suspension (even on 35 profile 19" tyres). However I have friends who think its was to harsh for a road car. 

If you do want to go PU bushes, Superpros design and quality are way above anything else Ive seen.

Bumpstops - OEM unless your shock kit includes them. The rear shock mounts (top and bottom) are also wear items, and again, OEM is the best bet. There are also a number of spherical bushes in the ass end suspension, which are often the first to go, replace them with OEM. 

I'm after predictable town and open road handling and ride quality—general driving. Thanks for the endorsement of Superpro bushes. From your description, a combination of Superpro bushes, and OEM bumpstops and rear shock mounts sounds OK. Didn't understand basis for OEM rear spherical bushes... why not Superpro? And front ARB bushes?

Edited June 26, 2020 by PRC

[Jacko 2157]

13 minutes ago, PRC said:

I'm after predictable town and open road handling and ride quality—general driving. Thanks for the endorsement of Superpro bushes. From your description, a combination of Superpro bushes, and OEM bumpstops and rear shock mounts sounds OK. Didn't understand basis for OEM rear spherical bushes... why not Superpro? And front ARB bushes?

PU bushes replace rubber bushes that are designed to move primarily in one axis, some of the suspension joints do more than one axis, so you cant replace spherical bush with a PU one. 

[PRC 7]

Thank you, appreciate the lesson.

Edited June 27, 2020 by E30 325i Rag-Top
Quote

[M3AN 4016]

Yes SuperPro are very good, have no hesitation in using them. If you're going to use BMW bump stops you MUST use BMW Performance ones, they're shorter, the stock ones are downright dangerous as your shocks wear.

Read this and pop back to ask questions: https://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

  

[Jacko 2157]

On the shocks question, My 330 is on the bilstein B4 kit, its essentially the same as OEM in the E91.. I dont know if the valving is different to the Msport E87 setup or not in the B4 E87 config.. if it isnt Id try something else personally as the stock Msport suspension isnt very nice on NZ roads, its overly sprung and crashy, and it likes to skip across bumps etc on your average NZ B road. 

I cant really say whats the best option, due to not having tried them all, however I have the birds custom valved B12 kit and really rate it when combined with birds spec eibach springs. I think you'd struggle to find anything better matched to NZ B roads, its probably too soft for the track though. 

[Jacko 2157]

Stock Msport shocks on E87s are sachs, which are just crashy, the Birds/Eibach/Bilsteins are softer springs than stock but have stiffer swaybars. Its a hard supension is "sporty" thing that BMW do  

https://www.birdsauto.com/product-information/b1-dynamics-package-upgrade-bmw-e87-130i-and-e82-135i

 

Edited June 27, 2020 by Jacko

[Jacko 2157]

How is getting custom valved shocks and spring rates developed by a suspension engineer/works driver marketing bollocks? Proof is in the pudding, and its good pudding  

Read some more, the BMWCar mag article is a good one. It was developed for the road, hence why most dont like it on the track as the spring rates are too low.

Id place money on BMW not putting LSDs in em to be more down to cost cutting than anything.  

 

[Eagle 1662]

Used B4's on a few BMW's and a Mercedes with stock springs, similar performance and ride to the sport dampeners they replaced. Good option if you can get them cheaper than Sachs.

I wouldn't bother with PU bushings in your case, more hassle\cost than it's worth for a average road car. They need to be re-lubed and rarely worth the improvement over fresh rubber. Ive had good life out of Meyle HD arms\bushings.  

Yeah the B6 and B8's ive had needed to or were re-valved (like most decent suspension packages seem to do)

[PRC 7]

2 hours ago, M3AN said:

Yes SuperPro are very good, have no hesitation in using them. If you're going to use BMW bump stops you MUST use BMW Performance ones, they're shorter, the stock ones are downright dangerous as your shocks wear.

Read this and pop back to ask questions: https://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

  

Thanks. I found this thread earlier this morning and will read it later. 

[Jacko 2157]

What makes it slightly more confusing is there is a B1 V1 and B1 V2, mines the V2 with the thinner rear swaybar and higher spring rates (still much larger rear sway, and lower rates, than stock). Be really curious to see what the difference is back to back with the V1 (which is what the Tyrant ran), it sounds like Birds/Harvey Bailey took the community feedback from the V1 and tweaked em. 

 

[PRC 7]

Just read through various comments (and thanks to contributors). How do Koni FSD and Sport (adjustable?) compare with Bilstein B4 then?

[M3AN 4016]

13 minutes ago, PRC said:

Just read through various comments (and thanks to contributors). How do Koni FSD and Sport (adjustable?) compare with Bilstein B4 then?

I don't think we can answer any more of your questions until you've posted pictures and details of your car. ?

 

[M3AN 4016]

I'm not sure on the science but there's a lot of support out there for the Birds setup. I have no doubt that it's far superior to stock and would work well for most street applications. All said and done it's their full kit with LSD that makes them shine, I'd skip the ARB's if your skipping the LSD.

 

[PRC 7]

36 minutes ago, M3AN said:

I don't think we can answer any more of your questions until you've posted pictures and details of your car. ?

 

Our current BMW is a 2006 130i; New Zealand-new, with full BMW dealer service history (excepting one WOF).

• Colour: Le Mans Blue
• Interior: 'Boston' black leather
• Options: S704, S339, S337, S710, S715, S441, S470, S473, S430, S431, S481, S411, S494, S459, S493, S4MG, S644, S609, S620, S540, S548, S534, S520, S502, S508, S522, S2MG, S249, S874, S775, S925, S9AA, S864, S853, S818, S302, S321, S825, S880

[M3AN 4016]

8 minutes ago, 3pedals said:

Faulty logic in that @M3an -   The LSD masks the stiffness of the rear end all you need to do is run the right mix of spring rate , compression control and roll control and it's fine 

So if you are going to bother doing the shocks and some bushes definitely do the bar as well  but don't go silly 30 to 40% stiffer is all you should do on an open diff.

And the advantage of the Sport adjustables is you can dial in some roll stiffness with the rebound control - more holds the inside wheel up - like a stiffer roll bar  but without the same level of weight transfer. 

Okay, 30 to 40% is fine, yes. But that's still nothing, 15mm or so, and I would just skip it.

My comment was in relation to the Birds ARB which is much thicker and therefore only suitable with a LSD. 

Edited June 27, 2020 by M3AN

[Jacko 2157]

32 minutes ago, PRC said:

Our current BMW is a 2006 130i; New Zealand-new, with full BMW dealer service history (excepting one WOF).

• Colour: Le Mans Blue
• Interior: 'Boston' black leather
• Options: S704, S339, S337, S710, S715, S441, S470, S473, S430, S431, S481, S411, S494, S459, S493, S4MG, S644, S609, S620, S540, S548, S534, S520, S502, S508, S522, S2MG, S249, S874, S775, S925, S9AA, S864, S853, S818, S302, S321, S825, S880

Pics and VIN, or doesnt exist  There are only 13 of em, so spotters will be googling furiously for this info in 20 years. 

[Eagle 1662]

13 hours ago, PRC said:

Just read through various comments (and thanks to contributors). How do Koni FSD and Sport (adjustable?) compare with Bilstein B4 then?

Do you have budget? Refreshing suspension on most BMW is by far the biggest expense in my experience.

B4 are basically OEM replacements and are priced accordingly, you could probably get them and new hardware for under $1000 landed from places like Daemon tweeks, Rockauto or FCP

Koni's are a performance upgrade (like the B6 and B8) and are much more expensive (shox.com list Sport adjustables F&R for $1200 NZD). You may get hit with custom import entry fee\paper work\GST and at least a $100-200 freight bill importing them, making them over $1500 landed. Then you got all new bump stops, mounts etc to buy on top of that. 

Typically most stuff in NZ would likely cost more even if its available.

[PRC 7]

3 hours ago, Eagle said:

Do you have budget? Refreshing suspension on most BMW is by far the biggest expense in my experience.

B4 are basically OEM replacements and are priced accordingly, you could probably get them and new hardware for under $1000 landed from places like Daemon tweeks, Rockauto or FCP

Koni's are a performance upgrade (like the B6 and B8) and are much more expensive (shox.com list Sport adjustables F&R for $1200 NZD). You may get hit with custom import entry fee\paper work\GST and at least a $100-200 freight bill importing them, making them over $1500 landed. Then you got all new bump stops, mounts etc to buy on top of that. 

Typically most stuff in NZ would likely cost more even if its available.

No budget. Current dampers (and probably bushes) are worn, and have decided to retain the car for the foreseeable future. Options having read responses here and elsewhere:

1. OEM dampers and bushes
2. Koni adjustable dampers and OEM bushes

Will also order a new set of tyres at the same time.

Edited June 28, 2020 by PRC

[M3AN 4016]

Keep in mind OEM MSport is terrible, you'll regret baking that in with more investment.

For an inexpensive improvement you'd be better off getting the relatively cheap Bilstein B4's, reuse your current springs and get either Bilstein or BMW Performance bumpstops. Bushings are another matter, I'd visually inspect them with a pry bar before deciding to replace any, that can get pricy fast and it may be less expensive in some cases to actually get replacement arms with the bushes already installed.

Edited June 28, 2020 by M3AN

[wrs 120]

39 minutes ago, 3pedals said:

" And has a lie down when it is really needed to play its part "

 

Love this statement ?

Edited June 28, 2020 by wrs

[M3AN 4016]

3 hours ago, 3pedals said:

My view is this is the usual false economy approach - buy and average shock and be stuck with mediocre performance or pay double to get them re-valved. 

Left front is leaking in the 87  so koni's being ordered next week that way I can use the stock springs etc and get a decent upgrade  and if  more is desired in the future  with different springs then it is simply a case of dialing the rebound accordingly. 

 The Konis will reduce the trash ride everyone blames the runflats for and they will ramp up in the big stuff  compare this to a  stiff compresion shock which transmits the  road noise more and has a lie down when  it is really needed to play its part.  

 

I was talking about his option #1, not his option #2. His "inexpensive" option (#1) is a bad one, my suggestion improves it dramatically. Of course if you spend more you can get more.

Edited June 28, 2020 by M3AN

[Jacko 2157]

I dunno if can really say all Bilstein shocks have flawed valving from a sample size of X(5). Ive run Bilsteins on probably 6 cars, have never jumped in and thought "damn that bad', Ive run konis on a few cars too, and again Ive never had a badly matched set. 

[M3AN 4016]

They're better than I could have hoped for on the M3. They'd be my go-to for the 130 also (B6's).