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jon dee

Stock ride height E92 Msport N54...

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Below is a pic of the B4 installation kit that FCPeuro offer on their site. You can buy everything separately but easier for me to buy a complete kit rather than select a few parts and then find I need a part I haven't bought ? So is the full kit the recommended deal or is it overkill for a 90,000km refresh ??

Cheers...

PS: Kit is listed for use with non-Msport B4's, but I am assuming that the same kit could be used with Msport B4's.

B4 Install Kit 01.png

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3 hours ago, jon dee said:

Below is a pic of the B4 installation kit that FCPeuro offer on their site. You can buy everything separately but easier for me to buy a complete kit rather than select a few parts and then find I need a part I haven't bought ? So is the full kit the recommended deal or is it overkill for a 90,000km refresh ??

Cheers...

PS: Kit is listed for use with non-Msport B4's, but I am assuming that the same kit could be used with Msport B4's.

B4 Install Kit 01.png

If you are going B4 then yes this is the way to go but its just stock replacement twin tube shocks, . I think you are over complicating the B8, B6 thing. M Sport springs B6, simple. 

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Maybe so, but last time I decided to upgrade the suspension on my car it took three sets of shocks and three sets of springs to get a result that I was happy with. This time I aim to do it once and get it right :) I want to go with a factory endorsed combination which leaves me with the B4 Msport version or possibly the Bilstein/Eibach B12 Pro Kit. The fact that B4's are not monotube is no problem... Konis are twin tube and they work OK, and I have no doubt that Bilstein can also build a decent twin tube.

Despite plumbing the depths of the internet I have not been able to find any information on the available working stroke of a correctly installed B6. That is, without cutting down the internal bumpstop. Regardless... the B6 is designed to work with non-Msport springs and if you use them with Msport springs with a (say) 30mm lower ride height, you are 30mm closer to the bumpstops. If the car is more than 30mm down then you are even closer to the bumpstops. So who cares ? Well I do. 

If you have 90mm of available stroke and it was assigned 60mm for bump and 30mm for rebound, with a 30mm drop you now have 30mm for bump and 60mm for rebound. For normal round town driving no problem... works fine. But brake hard into a corner and you are riding on the bumpstop on the outside wheel, and that does not do much for your handling. Sure you can live with it and no doubt thousands of B6 users drive on Msport or lowering springs every day. Luckily, I believe the internal bumpstops are quite soft.

Only if I put down the money for monotubes I'd like to have the shocks sitting in the optimum part of their stroke as Bilstein intended. Just saying... :)

Cheers...

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21 minutes ago, jon dee said:

Maybe so, but last time I decided to upgrade the suspension on my car it took three sets of shocks and three sets of springs to get a result that I was happy with. This time I aim to do it once and get it right :) I want to go with a factory endorsed combination which leaves me with the B4 Msport version or possibly the Bilstein/Eibach B12 Pro Kit. The fact that B4's are not monotube is no problem... Konis are twin tube and they work OK, and I have no doubt that Bilstein can also build a decent twin tube.

Despite plumbing the depths of the internet I have not been able to find any information on the available working stroke of a correctly installed B6. That is, without cutting down the internal bumpstop. Regardless... the B6 is designed to work with non-Msport springs and if you use them with Msport springs with a (say) 30mm lower ride height, you are 30mm closer to the bumpstops. If the car is more than 30mm down then you are even closer to the bumpstops. So who cares ? Well I do. 

If you have 90mm of available stroke and it was assigned 60mm for bump and 30mm for rebound, with a 30mm drop you now have 30mm for bump and 60mm for rebound. For normal round town driving no problem... works fine. But brake hard into a corner and you are riding on the bumpstop on the outside wheel, and that does not do much for your handling. Sure you can live with it and no doubt thousands of B6 users drive on Msport or lowering springs every day. Luckily, I believe the internal bumpstops are quite soft.

Only if I put down the money for monotubes I'd like to have the shocks sitting in the optimum part of their stroke as Bilstein intended. Just saying... :)

Cheers...

Why dont you just send Bilstein an email then. I read the difference in an E90 between M sport and standard is 17mm. 

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That may be on the money as I found dimensions posted by someone who actually had a BMW B6 and B8 strut side by side. According to him the body length was exactly the same and the "difference in length" that is often quoted is only how far the spear extends out of the body. His measurements show a difference of 19.3mm in spear extension and that the available stroke is 15.8mm less on the B8. Also shows that the stroke before the spear hits the bumpstop on the B8 is 76.2mm

From what I read it appears that the bumpstops are considered to be a working part of the suspension. They allow at least a further inch of bump stroke and are available in several compression rates (typically between 100lb/inch and 250lb/inch) so tuneable. All of which is fcuking interesting but contains too many variables for further theorising :) So based on anecdotal evidence I'd say yes you can use the B6 with Msport suspension and yes you can use the B8 with Msport suspension. Either one will be an upgrade over the OEM shocks. Results and ride height may vary.

I'm 95% decided on adding the B4 kit plus the M3 arms as a first step. Just waiting to see how the order for the arms works out before placing an order for the B4 kit. That will pretty much kill my pocket money for this year, so I'd like to get a handle on the total cost before committing.

Cheers...

Suspension_Geometry_030-vi.jpg

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Found the mother lode :) According to BMW these are the official ride heights. USA cars have different heights but (thankfully) we are not in the US so I have not included them here. 

Cheers...

2008 E92 N54 Front Ride Height 01.jpg

2008 E92 N54 Rear Ride Height 01.jpg

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Looks like 16mm difference, 17mm was pretty close.

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Yeah... and nice to have some reference information to let anyone work out how low his/her car will be with a particular lowering kit. Now if only the companies that sell "lowering springs" could publish the spring rates... :)

Cheers...

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12 hours ago, jon dee said:

Yeah... and nice to have some reference information to let anyone work out how low his/her car will be with a particular lowering kit. Now if only the companies that sell "lowering springs" could publish the spring rates... :)

Cheers...

Stock

135i
Front: 120 lb/in
Rear : 350 lb/in

e90 ZSP or e92
Front: 145 lb/in
Rear: 460 lb/in

e90/e92 BMW Performance (Calculated given that the material of this spring is the same as the ZSP springs)
Front: 195 lb/in
Rear: 505 lb/in

M3
Front: 160 lb/in
Rear: 550 lb/in

Aftermarket

KW v1-v3 (non M3)
Front: 190-256 lb/in (progressive average)
Rear: 545-570 lb/in (progressive average)

KW Street Comfort
Front: 286 lb/in
Rear: 572 lb/in

KW Clubsport (non M3)
Front: 400 lb/in
Rear: 570 lb/in

M3 KW v3
Front: 285 lb/in
Rear: 630 lb/in

M3 KW Clubsport
Front: 508 lb/in
Rear: 800 lb/in

Bilstein PSS10
Front: 385 lb/in
Rear: 615 lb/in

Eibach Pro-kit
Front: 148 lb/in
Rear: 456 lb/in

Eibach Multi-Pro-R1
Front: 200 lb/in
Rear: 500 lb/in

Eibach Pro Street S
Front: 134 - 271 lb/in (Progressive)
Rear: 456 lb/in (Linear)

HKS Hypermax
Front: 448 lb/in
Rear: 504 lb/in

Tein Stech
Front: 191 lb/in
Rear: 593 lb/in

Tein Euro Damper System
Front: 280 lb/in
Rear: 392 lb/in

Tein ss-p
Front: 392 lb/in
Rear: 671 lb/in

JIC-Magic Cross
Front: 450 lb/in
Rear: 674 lb/in

TC Kline Coils
Front: 350 lb/in
Rear: 700 lb/in

HP Autowerks Coilover System
Front: Custom Tailored 300-500 lb/in (Contact HP Autowerks)
Rear: Custom Tailored 500-1000 lb/in (Contact HP Autowerks)
__________________

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WOW !!!! Impressive collection considering I have only seen rates quoted a couple of times in forum discussions about standard shocks and springs. Coilover vendors are more forthcoming as they usually have a range of springs on offer. Going to have to take a look at where the springs are located on the back axle to see why the rear rates are so much higher than the fronts :)

Cheers...

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I was looking at how close the Eibach Pro Kit spring rates were to the E92 rates, and it got me thinking how strange it was that Bilstein did not offer the B8 for the E92 when they offered the B12 kit for the E92. Seemed illogical to me. So I checked to see if the B8's in the B12 kit were any different to the B8's listed for the E90 sedan. Bilstein said nope... they are identical. So then I asked them why they didn't offer the B8's for the E92 with Msport and they said... WUT !!!... but we do offer the B8 for the E92 with Msport and sent me the attached screenshot.

So it seems that 98% of the sales outlets for Bilstein are still working off an old application listing (as I was), one that does not list B8 for the 2011-2007 E92 with Msport. Downside of clarifying this is that now I have to reopen my internal struggle between being sensible and getting the B4's or succumb to the modifiers curse of wanting the high performance shocks to go with my surgical steel socket set :D

Cheers...

E92 B8 listing.png

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19 hours ago, jon dee said:

I was looking at how close the Eibach Pro Kit spring rates were to the E92 rates, and it got me thinking how strange it was that Bilstein did not offer the B8 for the E92 when they offered the B12 kit for the E92. Seemed illogical to me. So I checked to see if the B8's in the B12 kit were any different to the B8's listed for the E90 sedan. Bilstein said nope... they are identical. So then I asked them why they didn't offer the B8's for the E92 with Msport and they said... WUT !!!... but we do offer the B8 for the E92 with Msport and sent me the attached screenshot.

So it seems that 98% of the sales outlets for Bilstein are still working off an old application listing (as I was), one that does not list B8 for the 2011-2007 E92 with Msport. Downside of clarifying this is that now I have to reopen my internal struggle between being sensible and getting the B4's or succumb to the modifiers curse of wanting the high performance shocks to go with my surgical steel socket set :D

Cheers...

E92 B8 listing.png

enough pussy-footing, go straight to PSS10's, you won't regret it!

  • Haha 1

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16 hours ago, Bennyboy said:

enough pussy-footing, go straight to PSS10's, you won't regret it!

I'll have to ask my mother first... ?

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Yeah... well... hmmmm... I gave mum a detailed explanation of all my research and pointed out the advantages and disadvantages of all the different and competing options. When I finished, realising that she had nodded off, I gave her poke in the eye with a sharp stick that I keep handy for that purpose. Upon waking she lobbed her empty glass in the direction of my head and blurted out "Get the black ones you f**kwit !!". I have always admired mother's ability to instantly get to the crux of important technical matters.

So black ones it is :)

Cheers...

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