Dog & Lemon Guide

[Jazzbass 1]

In the D&LG, the writer often makes mention of something like - if you want to see what a BMW should be like, drive a Lexus.

I've come across many comments like that and while I understand what they're trying to say, I really do think they've missed the point totally.

If I wanted to drive a Toyota, I would, but I don't - I love driving my BMW. To me, the BMW just has something that no Japanese car I've ever owned (I've had many) has ever had - and that's 'character'. BMWs just have a package that totally suits me. I enjoy my driving again since I've discovered that certain character. Toyotas have a great car, hell its normally #1 on any list for reliability etc - BUT - its a Toyota, whether its a Lexus or an Echo- its NOT what I want.

Why can't motoring writers see that basic fact?

[Gus 5]

dog and lemon guide is rubbish. written by fools, for fools

[hybrid 1043]

The Dog and Lemon guide is the difference between a motoring enthusiast and regular joe public (it being a biased guide for joe public).. Most techincal writers go off what mechanical workshops experience is. Most of these shops will only see the worst of the worst. This is amplified by New Zealanders breed-in 'trying to do things on the cheap' mentality and the current 'junk import' car scene. Alot of things get bad names from a few lemons ... and worse is whiney n00bs with lemons ...

While there are exceptions to every rule... I would go off what International writers / experienced car reviewers in context with what you want out of the vehicle / are buying for. Not some know all New Zealand post jap import influx trash money making rag writer....

/cynic

[p1_m3 8]

BMW have always focused on the sportier side of driving experience and have had a long and illustrious career in the motorsport world.

Lexus aka Toyota build luxury barges, as Clarkson would say, (altezza or IS series may be allowed a small exception).

Two ends of the spectrum as far as I am concerned. Lexus have gone after the Mercedes (older gent) market anyway.

my 2cents

[martyyn 2]

The E39 won the European Car of the Year title (for its class) in ALL BUT ONE of its production years.

That says enough for me.

[bimmer boy 21]

BMW have always focused on the sportier side of driving experience and have had a long and illustrious career in the motorsport world.

Lexus aka Toyota build luxury barges, as Clarkson would say, (altezza or IS series may be allowed a small exception).

Two ends of the spectrum as far as I am concerned. Lexus have gone after the Mercedes (older gent) market anyway.

my 2cents

Then how would you explain the Lexus SC430's?

Its true that book only seems to favours Mazdas and Toyotas

[kiwi535 538]

Then how would you explain the Lexus SC430's?

Its true that book only seems to favours Mazdas and Toyotas

drive one and tell us what you think of them.

[CaM 0]

def not written by a real 'car enthusiast'.

[bumpdE30 0]

I just read the dog & lemon guide and I don't like it lol I don't know when my cambelt was last changed and why every 55,000km's insted of 80,000? Grrr

Edited September 28, 2006 by bumpdE30

[Palazzo 477]

Well, as the owner of each of the vehicles, here's my 2 cents.

First off, the D & L guide is rubbish, I've read it and can't stand it. It's not even accurate on simple facts.

But, they have a good point about the build/maintenance issues on many euros. Example, '98-02/3? Audi A6 V6. A cam belt change on these things is $2-2500k! Why? Because it's designed in such a way, that you need to dismantle part of the front of the car and that costs money.

Anyone have an E36 auto that holds onto first gear in the mornings (cold), then changes to 2nd with a thump? Start saving. I've seen it on cars with less than 80kms.

I agree that certain BMWs are fantastic cars, the 5 series springs to mind as the best in class from '88-'03 (hate the look of the new one) and the E30 was THE CAR when I was desperate to join the yuppies in the '80s. Now we have two and they are both great fun, light, chuckable, quick enough and getting more rare in standard tidyish trim.

But, just because I enjoy them, doesn't mean you can totally buy into BMW culture. I think too many people read Ultimate Driving Machine and believe it. And without meaning to offend anyone, a 316/318/520 auto doesn't sit well with me and the BM position statement.

I have my Lexus because it was good value (2nd hand), reliable and comfortable for everyday use. It's surprised me with the handling (better than expected), the braking (better than probably anything I've driven) and the performance on the open road.

It's not perfect, but it's pretty damn good.

Last word to Autocar Magazine UK, Jan '95 issue who looked at the LS vs S420, XJ6, 740i, A8 and Range Rover.

"The real news here is just how close Lexus has come to taking the top spot. Undeniably superior to the BMW, the LS400 loses ground to the still superb Mercedes-Benz S-class on handling, nterior space and image. But only just. Indeed, the Lexus has easily the best engine here and the sort of build quality that was once the preserve of the Germans."

Edited September 28, 2006 by Palazzo

[lidistick 70]

I actually bought the damn book.

If you know about cars don't read the synopsis cos its rubbish. It however gives you a good feel of what can and probably will go wrong with older cars and a reasonable amount as to how much it will cost.

Most of us here will never buy a car without it first going on a hoist and getting a compression test but my wife will happily buy a car on color!

I mean she prefered the Alfa Romeo 156 to the E36!!! Thankfully the windows didn't work when we test drove it or else I'll be registered with the www.brokealfaowner.co.nz/forums

Cheers.

[kerrynzl 3]

I've never read it, But look at the Title

Sounds like sensationist journalism to entertain pessimists [like national enquirer,womans day etc]

on the positive side; If the un-informed public treat this tripe as gospel,there would be less f**kwits in performance cars![bMW] therefore holding value amongst enthusiasts

[StylesM5 0]

Anyone have an E36 auto that holds onto first gear in the mornings (cold), then changes to 2nd with a thump? Start saving. I've seen it on cars with less than 80kms.

Interesting comment. We bought my wifes 325 4 years ago with 160k kms on the clock. The box behaved like that then. Now done 190k kms, still does it and (cross fingers) box still works fine. The fact that we've had to replace/fix nearly every other bloody thing on the car is irelevant though!

Air cond condensor

Recover all seats

New roof lining

Front A arms

Exhaust

Rear wheel bearings

Radiator

Windows (all four) have just stopped working. Anyone have a fix?

Driveline has been fantastic though. Never burns any oil.

Cheers

[rxsumo 33]

The clown that oversees the crap in the D&L Guide, drives a 1950's Morris Oxford.

He has the cheek to put down relatively good late model euro cars, yet he favours a poorly assembled, poor handling (probably rusty as), under powered English POS.

That pretty much sums up how I rate his opinion on how good cars are......

Morris Oxford good....BMW bad......I see a Tui Ad here somewhere

Edited September 28, 2006 by rxsumo

[ducatiss 1]

I have the D&L guide as well and if one believed everything in it a bicycle would be the order of the day. That said, while Jap cars imo dont have character, they on the whole are more reliable than German cars. Having owned Audi's, and BMW's including a BMW bike, I am always left wondering whats going to go wrong next. The same cannot be said for the Jap car where it gets filled with fuel and an oil change every now and again and keeps going and going. Dont get me wrong, driving and owning a BMW is an experience that is truely worthwhile where I see my Jappa as no more than an applicance. But yeah, the D&L guide seems to take things to the extreme where it lists the worst case scenario's of all vehicles.

Edited September 28, 2006 by ducatiss

[akuzev 0]

In the D&LG, the writer often makes mention of something like - if you want to see what a BMW should be like, drive a Lexus.

I've come across many comments like that and while I understand what they're trying to say, I really do think they've missed the point totally.

If I wanted to drive a Toyota, I would, but I don't - I love driving my BMW. To me, the BMW just has something that no Japanese car I've ever owned (I've had many) has ever had - and that's 'character'. BMWs just have a package that totally suits me. I enjoy my driving again since I've discovered that certain character. Toyotas have a great car, hell its normally #1 on any list for reliability etc - BUT - its a Toyota, whether its a Lexus or an Echo- its NOT what I want.

Why can't motoring writers see that basic fact?

Yes

To me it sounds like it has been writen by Toyota promotions department. Not only Euros but even well proven Japanese are neglected big time and lets face it it's just unrealistic?!! My major concern is that the writer has realy big afections about Toyota?Lexus brand??? How come? I'm still happy with my 3 series e46 with 125K miles and not even close to the issues that the writer describes?? I even love the smell of my car,not to mention the looks and design. Good luck to people having trust in that guide or info, whatever you name it.

[CamB 48]

Woah ancient thread.

FWIW was just having the "Dog and Lemon" discussion yesterday. I am also irritated by the comments implying some cars are crap if you don't maintain them... well, maintain them then.

It sort of implies Toyotas don't need maintaining.

[kiwi535 538]

It sort of implies Toyotas don't need maintaining.

they dont and they go for ages until they stop....and they will stop and then cost lots to fix,and it s ussually not worth it.

[Driftit 2080]

Why on earth did you dig up a 2 year old thread?

[huff3r 347]

Yep its a well known fact that your average 1989 corolla will drive until it rusts out.... then the engine will keep running... but what a boring car... i'll have my 320 anyday

[Hi-Tek 3]

Why on earth did you dig up a 2 year old thread?

New to the boards, he/she was probably searching and didn't see the original thread date.

[caleb 0]

The Jap has perfected their approach to quality control. read 'Kaizen'.

Repeatedly producing the same car/parts with a high standard of realiability and consistent quality. In my opinion, far superior to German cars. Other than the regular wear/tear components, there really isn't anything that could break.

Just do a comparison on all mechanical insurance. All mechanical insurance that I came across impose an excess for Euro cars but little or zero excess for Jap. Not only the parts for Euro cars are more expensive but there are far more chances of an Euro car failing with bits and pieces of minor repair work required. (often within the excess amount, hence no claim from Insurance point of view)

Having said these, I still prefer a BMW to Toyota.

[zenetti 0]

The guy that writes that guide is an absolute dickhead!

The last one I looked at every car was either "Just OK" or "Avoid like the plague". I think we had a bet on to find out which car he recommended and couldn't find one. I wouldn't trust anything he says.

[kingkarl 136]

Unless the author has owned or at least driven all of the cars he is such an expert on i can't understand how he seems to know so much about them. Or how he can give such an insightful opinion on the pro's and con's of the cars.

[Avenged.SSE 0]

I've got a 2003 ES300 & a 2002 525i, 525i wins overall, hands down.