E60 530i vs E65 735

[318Touring 40]

Right so it's that time of the period again where I trawl the car yard looking for the replacement of the E39.

I'd like to get opinions from those who have experience or heard about their reliability on these cars that I'm looking to get, primarily to avoid getting nasty surprises. Remember that both cars are from the first year of production of its model.

I won't be disclosing any prices as they are similar and the least of my concern at the moment.

1st car

2003 E60 530iSE

Metallic Brown

36000km

NZ new

active steering

the headlight thingy (I don't remember what it was called)

1 NZ owner

FSH

no NAV or TV

iDrive

18 inch wheels

no warranty

no Xenons

2nd car

2002 E65 735

Titanium Silver

70000km

Singapore import but brought in and vetted by BMW NZ, has gone through the 100 points check basically BMW NZ imported

soft close doors

rear blinds

NAV no TV

iDrive

loaded with the usual stuff

18 inch wheels

BMW Premium Selection warranty with service plan for 2 years

no Xenons

After thoughts:

- will be fun to see an E65 on gymkhana or driver raining day

- hard to put in the garage or any parking place for that matter

- thirsty? These engines are gettingbetter and better unless you're going crazy on the pedal

- Cool Factor????

PS: the missus is very keen on the 7 .... Although at the end of the day there is nothing wrong with the E39 ......

Edited March 17, 2007 by 318Touring

[jochen 4]

FYI: you can add TV to the Singapore E65 readily

Also, Singapore nav = identical to NZ nav, just insert the disc and away it goes....

With the new gen MOST vehicles, I recommend don't get a Japper - they are hard to convert to NZ spec...

Jochen

[jochen 4]

PPS: NZ-cars are generally low-specced compared to other countries

I'm amazed at what is missing from some NZ-new cars I've seen, and a lot of it is the behind-the-scenes stuff - like quantity of speakers, heated seats, rear blinds, multi-function steering wheel, cruise-control, auto-dimming mirrors, etc etc etc

But NZ-new cars have the factory alarm built in (bonus) where as Jap doesn't and Singapore? (Don't know...)

[martyyn 2]

Definately the 7.

Ive driven both of these and the 7 wins hands down. Size is a factor Ill give you that but I get my 740 around town easily enough, PDC is a must have and my driveway is not the easiest to access either.

In terms of interior space the 5 was surprisingly small. Not just for someone of my size either but their just didnt seem to be the space to be really comfortable.

In terms of on-road 'presence' the 7 wins without getting out of the driveway !

I was once told by a dealer that the wisest choice between fully spec'ing a 5 versus a 7 was that all the kit you could add to the 5 will be standard in the 7 and much more saleable in the long run.

Issues, I know the early E65's had problems but if its been through the full BMW check you should be happy enough and if you get the 2 year warranty on it then you are sorted.

Also if Jochen can get all the kit working then you have a seriously brilliant car for very little money.

To add to the dilema, have you thought about bringing one in from Japan yourself ? You can save you a bundle if you do the research and are willing to wait for the right car.

[hybrid 1039]

The 7 is defantily a nice place to be ... I had a wee go in a 745i and the 760iL and they are defanitly great cruisers ... My pick though would be the newer 5 series as its a better drive.

Totally depends on whats your bag though.

[nath 129]

E65's are really nice to drive, etc etc like any other seven, but yes they do have the E65 probs, and also the 7 series servicing and parts (believe me- they DO always go in to the shop when money is no issue)

Does the 7 have that horrible light coloured matt finish wood, or high gloss? the matt looks really cheap. E65s are very high- its great sitting in the traffic and seeing over other people! Make sure it has had the known E65 probs fixed- power steering bolts etc(the dealers know the faults)

An E60 530d would win hands down in this case so far as an all round car goes. But this isnt a diesel, its a petrol. The 3L is very very smooth in E60's, you cant feel the power through your foot like you can in an E39(but it's there). Handling is superb, and the steering is great (not a noticable naff item, it sort of works in the background without you knowing)

If I had that money right now i would go for the 735, but only because i always want bigger better. A smarter choice all- round(for MYSELF) would be the 5.

[AntonyG 0]

M54 fitted to the E60 is a beautiful and reliable motor if cooling

system is well serviced, seem to wear tyres fast, personally a

fan of AFS (active steering), expensive to maintain with no warrenty.

E65, big pimp luxuary, smooth car to drive, gotta have a warrenty,

N62B35 from Singapore are bad for oil leaks and interior usually lowly

spec'd with budget climate control etc

A E60 530i from a dealer with warrenty would be the go!! Espec

the 530d.. absolute rocket ship!

[nath 129]

I'll second the budget Singapore spec..... common espesh with 735i's. Seriously some E65's which look good are RUBBISH, so get it checked checked and checked again! (or if its a dealer saying that they have given it the check, find out about the 'recalls' (known faults that were not recalled) and question them

[318Touring 40]

Cool, thanks for the replies, keep 'em coming :-)

Yeah I agree re the diesel E60 unfortunately it's not easy to find one within what I want to send.

Jochen: what's involved in getting TV, the sat-nav will work in NZ just need to get the CD.

Martyyn: I think there's about 10 cm and 20 cm spare space front & back respectively when the E65 was in my garage. And my garage is 1980's not the ridiculously small 1960s Wellington garages.

E60:

Active steering takes some time to get used to.

I somehow constantly found that the A pillar gets in the way while trying to see my 2 o'clock.

My son can't sit in the middle rear seat as his head hits the mechanism to open the rear hand rest.

I can't get visual PDC while it should have come with that option.

No BMW warranty.

E65:

I can't test drive the car as it is in another town so I went out in a $200+k 750. Hmmm, I felt like driving a house...

Seriously it was so smooth making the E60 felt like an uncultured school boy.

This is a BMW vetted car so everything should have been fixed before it goes on sale.

Comes with BMW Premium Selection which is a 2 yr warranty and service plan.

More photos of the E65:

Edited March 17, 2007 by 318Touring

[jochen 4]

Jochen: what's involved in getting TV, the sat-nav will work in NZ just need to get the CD.

Source aTV tuner ex Europe

Plus some cables (incl fibre optic!)

Plus TV antennas

Some research required....

Martyyn: I think there's about 10 cm and 20 cm spare space front & back respectively when the E65 was in my garage.

You are so lucky!

I have 1cm front and 2cm rear free space with my E39 540i

I have to park very carefully and gently 'bump' the wall...

[318Touring 40]

Source aTV tuner ex Europe

Plus some cables (incl fibre optic!)

Plus TV antennas

Some research required....

Hmm, sounds rather hard work ....

My son freaked out when the NAV started saying 'turn right 800m' etc.

I have to park very carefully and gently 'bump' the wall...

The PDC went crazy after the car's parked, showing red on all 4 sides.

[kiwi535 538]

Agree with Martyn the 5 will probably feel small after a seven but prolly the same as the e 39.I was quite disapointed with the "presence" of the interior of the 530 D I drove.A five would be my pick though,only three to carry mostly,would be the seven if I had a bigger family

[ThreeOneEight 0]

Why doesn't the NZ new, newer and half as many km's travelled 530i have a warranty, yet the imported, older, higher mileage 735i does? Is the 530i at a non-BMW dealer?

Personally, I think E60s have hot styling, wheras the E65 is a bit taxicab.

[318Touring 40]

Is the 530i at a non-BMW dealer?

Yep. It's at a mainstream European yard, while the 7 is at Jeff Gray BMW.

kiwi535, re the interior my wife agrees with you completely. She's indifferent to the 5 but completely taken by the 7. I can probably start a car pooling with the 7 :-)

As of now (12 hrs from the 1st post), we (my wife) are/is leaning more and more towards the 7 due to warranty and we're most probably trade it again in 36 months time.

Hmmmmm ....

Edited March 17, 2007 by 318Touring

[will 169]

I think the brown is awful on the 5. Apart from that, the fact that it doesn't have a warranty would further put me off.

The 7 looks good in silver, has a BMW warranty, and I'm sure Jochen will come up with all the answers (given time) to sort the TV. Nav is great to have too (sure your son will get used to it!).

So my vote is definitely with the 7.

[318Touring 40]

I think the brown is awful on the 5. Apart from that, the fact that it doesn't have a warranty would further put me off.

The 7 looks good in silver, has a BMW warranty, and I'm sure Jochen will come up with all the answers (given time) to sort the TV. Nav is great to have too (sure your son will get used to it!).

So my vote is definitely with the 7.

I actually like the E60 in brown better than in silver, because it looks different

The missus woke me up and came up with the same argument as yours. I wonder who'll be driving the 7 more .....

My son is still not sure about NAV especially as it can tell him off when he's forgotten to brush his teeth

TV module from eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-Genuine...bayphotohosting

[BMW POWER 2]

I'd go for the 7 indefinitely if it wasn't Singapore import.

All of our (2) E65's from work have been Singapore or Japanese imports, I guess that drives the price down.

So my votes with the 7... just watch the Singapore bit

[jjs 60]

7 Series is a fantastic car. But why not get a NZ New 745i? They are starting to appear from $60k. You get the security of NZ new and also the extra grunt from the engine the 7 was designed to have in it!

Any dealer can sell you a warranty, just make sure you get one with a nil excess.

Again, go NZ New. A family member of mine had an immaculate 2000 735i which was ex singapore. No dealer wanted to trade it in and when he ended up selling it, it was for quite a lot less than what he expected.

Rick Armstrong motors had a very nice 02 NZ new 745i in Toledo blue with black travelled 60kms for $65k. They may still have it.

Good luck with the car hunting, but my one piece of advice is BUY NZ NEW!

[318Touring 40]

7 Series is a fantastic car. But why not get a NZ New 745i?

I don't want anything bigger than 3.5l, that's why I've gone away from X5s, which the only variant with decent spec is either 4.4 or 4.8 anythng else will be like my E39 on a higher platform.

So my votes with the 7... just watch the Singapore bit

So BMW Power, can you elaborate a bit then? Maybe from personal experience at work?

Edited March 17, 2007 by 318Touring

[BMW POWER 2]

Personal experience, the silver 745iL or 760iL (i cant exactly remember, this was 12 months ago) we had from Singapore had outside rubber peeling. It just felt like it wasnt all there, stuff was worn more than usual with a Kiwi one, and it only had around 60,000km.

As usual with BMW Singapore imports you have to watch the electrical system. Being a 7 series, it has one munger of an electrical system. But also being inspected by BMW it should be fine. Remembering that they dont have ESP and cant predict future catostrophies.

Just talk to some neutral mechs about Singapore imports, im sure they can advise you in detail about them.

As Jeremy said, NZ New would be a definite preference. In my opinion its worth the extra $xooo you pay. Up to you though, but definintely NZ New represent. My family has had $6000 bill from BMW- bad experience with an asian import.

Heres the Armstrong one: http://www.armstrongprestige.co.nz/usedcars/ 3rd page, half way down.

Good luck

Edited March 18, 2007 by BMW Power

[318Touring 40]

Thanks for that, much appreciated.

You're right, this particular one is imported by BMW NZ and will go through the 100 points check, like all NZ New vehicles, for preparation for Premium Selection. This one has the full warranty and service plan so I only have to fuel the car up and replace the tyres for the next two years.

So hopefully all the issues (if any - knock on wood) will be sorted out by month 12.

Remembering that they dont have ESP and cant predict future catostrophies.

ESP is DSC - dynamic stability control? I'll ask the sales guy.

Just talk to some neutral mechs about Singapore imports, im sure they can advise you in detail about them.

Unfortunately I've never taken my bimmers to anywhere else except the BMW dealers

Isn't the Armstrong's one a Jap import? The plate is too young for a 2002 and number plate area at the boot is for Japanese and America market (smaller). I know, I'm a BMW geek

It isn't really about the money but don't want anything bigger than 3.5l (of course I have a budget I have to stick to) also more whether it's going to be a better buy given the warranty, history, spec, ease of ownership and where they are going to end up on the 'Cool Wall'. Remember though I'm not going to pick up Kirstin Scott-Thomas in it, my missus will have something to say about that.

Edited March 18, 2007 by 318Touring

[BMW POWER 2]

Thanks for that, much appreciated.

You're right, this particular one is imported by BMW NZ and will go through the 100 points check, like all NZ New vehicles, for preparation for Premium Selection. This one has the full warranty and service plan so I only have to fuel the car up and replace the tyres for the next two years.

So hopefully all the issues (if any - knock on wood) will be sorted out by month 12.

ESP is DSC - dynamic stability control? I'll ask the sales guy.

Unfortunately I've never taken my bimmers to anywhere else except the BMW dealers

Isn't the Armstrong's one a Jap import? The plate is too young for a 2002 and number plate area at the boot is for Japanese and America market (smaller). I know, I'm a BMW geek

It isn't really about the money but don't want anything bigger than 3.5l (of course I have a budget I have to stick to) also more whether it's going to be a better buy given the warranty, history, spec, ease of ownership and where they are going to end up on the 'Cool Wall'. Remember though I'm not going to pick up Kirstin Scott-Thomas in it, my missus will have something to say about that.

ESP - Not in a technical sense! Extra-Sensory Perception lol! The BMW Techs dont have it

I don't know but i can find out for you. Jeremy seems to thinks its NZ New. Yeah actually i was thinking the same (Dads explained the number plate idea to me and i always look at cars that have "Euro" plate mounts as NZ or GBR)

Remember the best sales arent always the easy ones. I went through ALOT to get my car - and gosh i look at it now and wouldnt have it any other way. Warranties can be brought from any half-decent dealership.

The idea of having a 7 mate is cool factor - go all out, treat yourself!

Edited March 18, 2007 by BMW Power

[318Touring 40]

Remember the best sales arent always the easy ones. I went through ALOT to get my car - and gosh i look at it now and wouldnt have it any other way. Warranties can be brought from any half-decent dealership.

Yeah I thought I would've nailed down a car on Saturday, just negotiate a little bit more and sign the paper. Then BAM! There's something else to consider. Arrghh I can't sleep!

I wonder should I wander down to the MB dealer and take a look at the E240.... Just kidding!!!

What is the best after market warranty, regardless of the cost?

Edited March 18, 2007 by 318Touring

[BMW POWER 2]

Yeah I thought I would've nailed down a car on Saturday, just negotiate a little bit more and sign the paper. Then BAM! There's something else to consider. Arrghh I can't sleep!

I wonder should I wonder to the MB dealer and take a look at the E240.... Just kidding!!!

What is the best after market warranty, regardless of the cost?

Welcome to the world of car sales! Man I dunno if im gonna be able to handle being a Saleswoman!

E240 - Nah, E55 or E63 and i wouldve said yes to you

I think Autosure or Auto assure is the one we use. Doesnt mean its best. but theres a few aftermarket companies around the place - Driveright, PROTECTA, Swann Insurance, Warranty direct etc etc.

[hotwire 352]

From what I have seen at work of Singapore BMW's I cant say I have seen any issues so far (apart from lower spec climate etc) but I have seen some scary sights on several MB's - cracked & perished trim rubbers & wiring with insulation literally breaking off the wire - a can of worms for the future. These issues have been on cars from only 3 - 6 years old too.