Is New Zealand Broadband Internet too EXPENSIVE?

[Andrew 30]

Remember the good ole days of NZ DSL - you could get your friend people who worked at Tcom to 'accidentallly' switch off interleaving on those old school nokia DSLAMS (which exist in some exchanges still). I hear tcom have removed the ability for the employees to play with them now hah.

Not that I ever did that...

[martyyn 2]

you could get your friend people who worked at Tcom to 'accidentallly' switch off interleaving on those old school nokia DSLAMS (which exist in some exchanges still).

[Andrew 30]

That was back in the day - 2000/01 that was going on. When the helpdesk consisted of 15 people hah

[martyyn 2]

Of course it wouldnt still be possible would it

[Andrew 30]

Of course it wouldnt still be possible would it

hah some of those old Nokia's still live as you probably know

[pjay 8]

yes siree they do, and sh*t i hate them. Nokia craft isnt 10% as fast as it used to be. Then i also hate ISAMs because of all the migrations and the no auth and no dsl issues...

herumph. Workload increases moan grump weather affecting the dslams groan complain lightning strikes hmmph moan moan cry

[Apex 693]

My PS3 can suck a whole month’s allocation in one weekend!! $50 in one weekend!

Its too slow and too expensive.

[nz320i 0]

Ummm i cant be bothered reading the whole thread but the power has little to do with it, it can get the signal slightly further down the line, but this increases noise which increases attenuation.

The higher the frequency the faster the speed, but as we know, high frequency cant travel far, which is why only people close the the exchange will get the faster speeds.

The pricing i don't pay for but agree with Cain, Telecom built the network and paid for the lot, if you owned it how would you feel being told to wholesale. aaaaand interleaving can be done on the new gear....

Edited August 20, 2008 by Chris C

[Avenged.SSE 0]

$60 unlimited/uncapped per month (Telecom's old plan which is now canceled) equating to hundreds of GB downloaded every month says no

[pjay 8]

$60 unlimited/uncapped per month (Telecom's old plan which is now canceled) equating to hundreds of GB downloaded every month says no

Your tolls must be with someone else then

[Smac01 12]

(1) Our broadband would seem less expensve if we were paid more (thats right - we languish in the bottem end of the OECD for wages).

(2) Our broadband would be cheaper if we had more people / packed more densely into samller area, or a more compact country (not going to happen anytime soon)

(3) Our broadband would be cheaper if there was more investment by private industry (other than those based here already), except points 1 & 2 make it a poor investment from an overseas investor point of view. A good investment from ours, but then we don't want to pay that much so it's a bit of a catch 22. They will make more money investing in countries:

where the citizens are packed like sardines in appartment tower after appartment tower, or concentated mainly in a few urban centers (thats not NZ folks, although give urban drift a few more decades and it may be).

where the citizean are paid a lot better than they are here. So as a % of their countries GDP boadband cost less - however the cost ogf broaband equipment is not priced as a %. The companies selling the equipment want to make a profit (how strange), and won't discount just because NZ has a low GPD.

If cheaper, faster broadband is really really important South Korea could be the go - some appartment building have a 5 star broadband rating - you can get 1Gig a second. It's also cheap. Not sure what they use it for - the highest peak bit rate of any service liekly to be avialble is 1080 high definition streaming TV, and thats only 50Meg a second. Personally I'd rather live here - but thats just me!

So when we buy a used BMW, because thats what we can afford, do we thing we were ripped off becasue it isn't a 2007 M3? We may wish the M3 was cheaper, we may really really want an M3, other people may be able to afford an M3 - fine points - but it doesn't mean you have been ripped off on your used BMW.

Jimbo, if only the rest of New Zealand was as understanding of the limits that New Zealand's geography imposes on the service providers of this country. I think a lot of people find it easy to compare with other countries without considering the millions of factors which have made the end result what it is.

At the end of the day it is basic economics..... If our internet providers were making that much of a margin on their services (ie charging too much) then a lot more players would try and enter the market to take advantage of this. We only need to look at those few companies which have tried to compete at lower cost, to realise this is not the case - their customer service levels, and service continuity, were dramatically lower. It is true, there is no such thing as a free lunch, and anyone who thinks that their broadband needs to be faster and cheaper needs to move to a higher density country. I think the relatively slower broadband is only a minute tradeoff of living in this country.

[pjay 8]

i <3 you both

[hbmonkeyman 0]

I voted no coz i'm on dialup so even the slow broadband seems fast to me

[Braeden320 0]

I use a datacard as I can't get broadband where we live, 400m from SH1 - Go Figure.

Its not fast but it does the job, $63 for 2GB

[JiB 0]

Sold out to Vodafone ADSL2+. The worst customer service - 2hr + wait times!

...But literally 10x faster than Telecom was. Was about 1.4Mbps now 9-10Mbps peak hours and 13Mbps in off peak down speed.

Streams Vimeo HD stuff without a worry. It's great having this kind of speed!

[jordyboy2 0]

The last internet bill at my parents house, $2400ish for 140 gb

Farking telecom.

[hybrid 1039]

Jimbo hit the nail on the head...

Faster back haul (what actually counts) and is happening at the moment.

http://www.chorus.co.nz/enhancing-the-broadband-network

as for people getting high bills... There is really no reason this should happen anymore, if your not resposible for checking your usage then woh is you.

The I hate telecom wank is so Annette Presly 2001

Soon everyone will have ADSL2 10-12Mbit and around 1Mbyte per sec local bandwidth. All cabinets are VDSL+ ready. (24-30mbit) which is the leap

[Sheytoon 0]

I’m sorry but NZ broad band is the slowest and most over priced I have ever seen. I was in the UK paying 18pounds/month for a 13mb line and unlimited usage. Now before people make the common mistake of saying "that’s $40NZish" it came to around 1.2% of my monthly pay. Over here I'm paying $120/month for a 3mb line and only 20gig limit. Now that’s 3% of my monthly pay. That’s a massive jump. Both are ADSL2 so they are using the same service/technology.

The problem in this country is that Tele-crap is so greedy they never invested into their infrastructure until roughly 3 years ago (I used to work for them). They had this massive campaign for New Zealanders to uptake broadband and yet they had a 3rd world infrastructure. This is the reason why it was so slow when it first came out. Also it’s the same reason why they can’t offer unlimited any more. Their exchanges just can’t handle the demand! It’s been an ongoing battle and frankly it’s going to take around 5 years for us to remotely catch up to the rest of the developed world! Its ridicules that this countries majority users are on Dial Up!!!!

This also applies to our cell phone networks to.....we are overpaying......how a country of 4 million people generate a 2.3ish billion market for cell phone use means only one thing....we are getting ripped off!

My rant for the day!

Edited October 29, 2008 by Sheytoon

[steve R 0]

I’m sorry but NZ broad band is the slowest and most over priced I have ever seen. I was in the UK paying 18pounds/month for a 13mb line and unlimited usage. Now before people make the common mistake of saying "that’s $40NZish" it came to around .1% of my monthly pay. Over here I'm paying $120/month for a 3mb line and only 20gig limit. Now that’s 3% of my monthly pay. That’s a massive jump. Both are ADSL2 so they are using the same service/technology.

The problem in this country is that Tele-crap is so greedy they never invested into their infrastructure until roughly 3 years ago (I used to work for them). They had this massive campaign for New Zealanders to uptake broadband and yet they had a 3rd world infrastructure. This is the reason why it was so slow when it first came out. Also it’s the same reason why they can’t offer unlimited any more. Their exchanges just can’t handle the demand! It’s been an ongoing battle and frankly it’s going to take around 5 years for us to remotely catch up to the rest of the developed world! Its ridicules that this countries majority users are on Dial Up!!!!

This also applies to our cell phone networks to.....we are overpaying......how a country of 4 million people generate a 2.3ish billion market for cell phone use means only one thing....we are getting ripped off!

My rant for the day!

Pretty sure its been said before, but it comes down to Geography. England has a population of 50mil. In a country about the same size as New Zealand, we have a population of 4mil and this is obviously much more spread out. So it is a HUGE investment for telecom to put cabinets in all the suburbs..which is what you need to get ADSL2 and VDSL. The equipment on Vodafones Red Network is capable of VDSL speeds with a theoretical max of about 50mbps I think… but everyone lives to far from the exchanges to take advantage of this(and the service is also not currently offered). I was at Voda head office the other day and did a speed test and it came back at about 45mbps

Theres also not much of an incentive for telecom to put the cabinets up… as there will be legislation passed to un bundle sub-loops, like the local loops, so Vodafone will just use telecoms investment to their advantage.

I would say that within the next 2 years, everyone that wants to have VDSL will be able to get it, but the price will be up high.

[Sheytoon 0]

Pretty sure its been said before, but it comes down to Geography. England has a population of 50mil. In a country about the same size as New Zealand, we have a population of 4mil and this is obviously much more spread out. So it is a HUGE investment for telecom to put cabinets in all the suburbs..which is what you need to get ADSL2 and VDSL. The equipment on Vodafones Red Network is capable of VDSL speeds with a theoretical max of about 50mbps I think… but everyone lives to far from the exchanges to take advantage of this(and the service is also not currently offered). I was at Voda head office the other day and did a speed test and it came back at about 45mbps

Theres also not much of an incentive for telecom to put the cabinets up… as there will be legislation passed to un bundle sub-loops, like the local loops, so Vodafone will just use telecoms investment to their advantage.

I would say that within the next 2 years, everyone that wants to have VDSL will be able to get it, but the price will be up high.

One of the main problems was that Telecom was using very old equipment within the cabinets. Thus these cabinets couldn’t handle the load. Also it was an actual stated fact that Telecom where allocated more than the recommended amount of people per ADSL line. If they had spent the time to upgrade the cabinets currently out there, then we wouldn’t have been where we are today.

I would say that VADSL will be out of most kiwis reach for at least 4 years. Although the technology is there it’s a simple economic rule of adopters VS cost. The less technology adopters there are the more the service will cost.

Edited October 29, 2008 by Sheytoon

[pjay 8]

I’m sorry but NZ broad band is the slowest and most over priced I have ever seen. I was in the UK paying 18pounds/month for a 13mb line and unlimited usage. Now before people make the common mistake of saying "that’s $40NZish" it came to around 1.2% of my monthly pay. Over here I'm paying $120/month for a 3mb line and only 20gig limit.

Another one from the UK complaining about NZ's telecommunications network? Used to work for Telecom too eh?

https://telecom.co.nz/broadband/select/1,10...an&detail=8

Save yourself some money, change plans.

One of the main problems was that Telecom was using very old equipment within the cabinets. Thus these cabinets couldn’t handle the load. Also it was an actual stated fact that Telecom where allocated more than the recommended amount of people per ADSL line. If they had spent the time to upgrade the cabinets currently out there, then we wouldn’t have been where we are today.

You sir, fail.

http://chorus.co.nz/enhancing-the-broadband-network

[Sheytoon 0]

Another one from the UK complaining about NZ's telecommunications network? Used to work for Telecom too eh?

https://telecom.co.nz/broadband/select/1,10...an&detail=8

Save yourself some money, change plans.

You sir, fail.

http://chorus.co.nz/enhancing-the-broadband-network

I saw that telecom have changed their plans. But seems to be a bit backwards....going from unlimited to a 40gig Limit. Whatever happened to their "the internet is now unleashed! All you can have bla bla bla" Campaign

Re Artical:

This artical is reletivly new. I was there from 2004/5. 2 -3 years before started their much required upgrade. If you read my last post i said "One of the main problems was that Telecom was using very old equipment within the cabinets"

My whole point is that what they are doing now should have happened 7 to 10 years ago. Not 3 years after they decided to aggressively market broadband! If this was the case we would be on par with the rest of the world.

Edited October 29, 2008 by Sheytoon

[pjay 8]

I don't think where we are today is all that bad. I don't understand the ranting from people that are dissatisfied with a service nobody else invested into or tried to offer.

I'm sorry if i am blunt on the subject but I've heard the same rant time and time again.

[OLLIE 26]

My whole point is that what they are doing now should have happened 7 to 10 years ago. Not 3 years after they decided to aggressively market broadband! If this was the case we would be on par with the rest of the world.

agree agree agree

and to you Pjay .. WTF? "nobody else invested into, or tried to offer" ... how could they???? you mean buy telecom shares? LLU has enabled this but once again it's about 5 years later than it should have been.

i think broadband prices are sh*t, and ISP's are taking the opportunity to justify the increased cost whilst people still remember how slow ADSL1 is/was.

As for the data cap I am in two minds about it. on one hand i'd love to see it unlimited but on the other hand with the speeds ADSL2+ is now allowing if everyone were to heavily download download download then speed and reliability will drop for everyone.

By having data capped or charged on a per GB basis people think twice before they download that 10GB pointless file or that 4GB kids DVD they don't need and is copyright protected anyway.

I think an ideal pricing structure is $25/month for the connection and $0.50 GB unlimited

so if I used approx 50GB per month my bill would be $50/month which is reasonable....

whilst we are on this topic, what ISP do you people recommend for ADSL2+ and VOIP phone. so far the best deal i have found is X-net ...

[martyyn 2]

Hold on a minute here. Before you all start cutting Telecom to pieces take a moment to think about how they ended up in this position.

They were owned by the state and therefore competition was not very forthcoming. Through no fault of their own they were sold off (I cant remember which govt took the money but I have my ideas!) and so it became an open market of 'one'. However no-one else wanted to invest in telecommunication infrastructure in NZ because its too expensive to build new networks for a paltry 4 million people so instead they started to cry about it all being a little unfair.

But why should a company be forced to GIVE AWAY its infrastructure to its competition? Telecom is a company looking after its share holders. Just like EVERY OTHER company in the world so why are people surprised that they do whats best for them and not for the consumer?

The commerce commision (I think) decided that it wasnt fair and that Telecom should wholesale its back end to anyone who wanted it and that those wholesalers should pay less than what Telecom can charge.

I wonder what a mechanic would say if I all of a sudden I had the right to come into his workshop, use his tools and his employees but only pay him 15% less of what he was charging his customers whilst I sit in his office drinking coffee all day taking his customers because I charge 5% less than he does making a healthy 10% profit for doing nothing.

Id love to know how many of you who are still Telecom customers even though you hate them so much. There are lots of reasons why unlimited access on Telecom failed. One was because they honestly didnt think that so many people would take it up, the other was thanks to the geeks who started downloading 600Gb of pr0n a month.

This doesnt mean I dont think we pay too much, because I do. When compared to the rest of the world, NZ still pays horrific amounts for its telecommunications but thats life. Everyone thought Vodafone would come in and blow the market wide open. But they knew a sure thing when they saw it and simply put their prices very slightly under Telecoms in order to make the same sort of profits !

Edited October 29, 2008 by Penry