What do you consider 'high' kms and why?

[martyyn 2]

Youve all seen the trademe discussion threads. A good looking car in great condition but someone instantly points out it has 'high' kms.

So come on then, at what point do you start to worry about the kms and more importantly why?

Ive mentioned before the magic 100000 number, in the UK its miles and here is kms. But in reality that are incredibly far apart so why that number?

Personally it depends on the car. I know that e39's and e38's start to need the odd repair at 160-180k kms but if the car has been well looked after there is no reason why it cant do twice that. Ive seen plenty of e32's with over 250k miles that drive, handle and look better than our five year old Focus.

and yes, Jez Im looking at you mate. 114k on an M5, pfffft.

So at what point do you start to think, oh thats a 'high' milage ?

[cainchapman 0]

I'm with Martyn, I looked and saw what is half the distance traveled on that M5 compared to our car. I wouldn't say the a 10,000km per year is high.

I've had my new car 9 weeks and done 8,200km in it. You do the maths.

[greenday-rulz21 6]

Before getting the 323 i thought something around 150k was high. My 323's done 103miles = 170k and handles better than 4 or 5 e36s iv tested that were around the 100-120k mark. My fathers 540 has done 170k and is exactly the same. Although that had a complete cooling system replacement at 120k, common problem, but ever since, never had a problem.

So back to your question, I still think 150+k is high but these cars were made to do 300+k so its not soo worrying. If it had done 200k and looked tired and tatty then you probably wouldn't waste your time with it.

[QuickSilver 0]

K's have never been an issue with me unless something is suspicious ie, late model car ridiculous amount of k's or really early model car with astoundingly low k's.

I always base my cars on condition, I dont look at the ODO and assume the car is not worth looking at just because the k's are what some people would consider "high". Im mainly talking about e30's here because I know what their like, running forever and all, I think alot of BMW's are the same.

If the car is in good condition, body and engine wise, has a good history and has been regularily serviced then why not? The k's might be high but the car will be running better and be in better condition than the same model with low k's that has not been looked after as well.

Plus, e30's are easy to chop and change around so if something went wrong its not a big fix anyway.

My 2c.

[briancol 3]

The average NZ motorist does 15,000kms per year, according to LTNZ. so do the maths.

As a car dealer, I get people in the yard who would not look at anything with more than 50,000kms on the clock yey I had a year 2000 Ford Falcon with over 400,000 kms and the guy who bought it believed that at those kms. it had only just been run in.

As long as a vehicle has been well maintained and regularly serviced (service records to prove it) then kms should not be a concern.

[BM WORLD 1283]

my e28 with 502,000km still drives straight . its just its had most things that wear replaced twice by now.

my e34 has only 68,000km and feels like new .

i dont care to much for millage ,as look as it has been looked after and serviced .

[Mike 1]

K's have never been an issue with me unless something is suspicious ie, late model car ridiculous amount of k's or really early model car with astoundingly low k's.

I always base my cars on condition, I dont look at the ODO and assume the car is not worth looking at just because the k's are what some people would consider "high". Im mainly talking about e30's here because I know what their like, running forever and all, I think alot of BMW's are the same.

If the car is in good condition, body and engine wise, has a good history and has been regularily serviced then why not? The k's might be high but the car will be running better and be in better condition than the same model with low k's that has not been looked after as well.

Plus, e30's are easy to chop and change around so if something went wrong its not a big fix anyway.

My 2c.

agreed.

i also think that when someone says "its got high km's" its also relative. In the case of e30's id expect most to be around the 200k mark or higher, so one would have to be around the 300K before i'd consider it to be high kms. something like e46's though then it might only be 150k for it to be considered high mileage.

[kiwi535 538]

i use the kms to judge what the big ticket items might be coming up but he main thing for me is the overall condition and or desireablilty of the car.The kilometres themselves dont really come into it.Spending hundreds every 100.000 k for a new radiator and or new suspension bushings is more sensible to me than $10000-$20,000 for a new carAt 250,000 my 535 is no different than when i bought it at 147,000(except for the items mentioned above)

[bmw.maniac 1]

Youve all seen the trademe discussion threads. A good looking car in great condition but someone instantly points out it has 'high' kms.

So come on then, at what point do you start to worry about the kms and more importantly why?

Ive mentioned before the magic 100000 number, in the UK its miles and here is kms. But in reality that are incredibly far apart so why that number?

Personally it depends on the car. I know that e39's and e38's start to need the odd repair at 160-180k kms but if the car has been well looked after there is no reason why it cant do twice that. Ive seen plenty of e32's with over 250k miles that drive, handle and look better than our five year old Focus.

and yes, Jez Im looking at you mate. 114k on an M5, pfffft.

So at what point do you start to think, oh thats a 'high' milage ?

In the US its really the same as the UK. 100,000 miles is considered low, and people only really start blinking twice when it nears 200,000 miles.

I guess the 'magic number' is so low here because of all the sh*t imports that come here wound back with "35,000km" - they end up blowing up or needing big repairs at around 160,000km.

[tcbaurpower 5]

Okay this is a good topic. I was just discussing this with a mate on friday and as his father is a mechanic they never consider the k's a problem just if engine is in relative good condition for its age (taken for a test drive etc). I have 3 e30's with high k's and two of them run fine just the one that was thrashed by a boy racer before we got it . I don't consider it a deterrent if the condition of the rest of the car is good.

[1rotty 40]

Probably the only minus with the magic 100k perception is resale because so many of the buying public are locked into it-abetted in my experience by dealers who reinforce it.

The 100k thing was around long before the import thing started-& then it was miles!!!

As already mentioned a well maintained quality car should be fine for 300k or more.

And if you keep your cars for long periods it gets to be academic & your loss when you do sell is relatively small because you pay less when you buy.

So thanks to the suckers who only buy low mileage -they are why I dont have to pay a lot for the cars I like!!!!

[jjs 64]

and yes, Jez Im looking at you mate. 114k on an M5, pfffft.

I've mentioned this in threads before, my phobia of high kms relates to resale.

So, you go and buy that M5 for $42,500 at a current 114k. In two years time you go to sell it and it has done 150k. I don't think 150k is high, but the majority of the car buying public does. This can be credited to the amount of crap that crosses our border with far from genuine mileage - cars that do less than 5,000k a year? Give me a break...

Anyway, this means your 150k M5 needs to be marketed at a considerably lower price (than one done under 100k) in order to attract a buyer. I've experienced this first hand when trying to sell cars which have done more than 150k, unless they are cheap, no one wants to know about it.

Three years ago I had a very nice ex UK 1985 323i manual coupe. It had done 210,000 miles but drove very very well. I was only asking $1,800 and the first three potential buyers who looked at it and drove it loved it. They couldn't bring themselves to buy it due to what was on the speedo! Luckily I found a BMW "enthusiast" who paid the asking price on the spot.

I think its far worse for large modern (post 1990) european cars. I would be scared shitless owing an E38 which has done high kms, due to maintenance / repair costs (whether genuine or imagined). Especially in a day in age where parts aren't fixed, but replaced at an often huge cost. I could only own one with mechanical breakdown insurance / warranty, which excludes anything which has travelled more than 120 or so kms (depending on policy).

I guess i'm a special example, as the longest I've owned one car is 8 months. However, if I was looking at buying something to keep long term, I wouldn't be too concerned about kms. Also, I think once a car is classic (i.e. more than 20 years old) kms do not matter at all. If one of my great plans comes to fruition I will be hunting for a nice 80's 930 911 some time soon, with a car of this age, condition is far more important than kms.

[ThreeOneEight 0]

Mine has done 177,000km, which works out at less than 10,000 per year. My neighbours have a similar vintage 320iA with about 60,000km less than mine, and I know mine is in better condition.

I think by and large, older BMW's that still survive are generally either in the safe hands of enthusiasts, or are being abused by the chrome wheels brigade. They seem to have moved onto E36/E39/E46 models now, though, I suppose it's a life cycle thing- some BMW's must die an ungraceful death in order for the rest to survive! Fortunately with BMW's it seems to be the less desirable spec cars(import, small engines, automatic etc) that get 'pimped', so hopefully the bulk of survivors will be the models people want, and they will also be well maintained despite potentially high mileages.

We have to remember that these cars are 'The Ultimate Driving Machine', not 'The Ultimate Keeping in the Garage and Not Driving Machine'!

[_Alan_ 6]

I agree with most of you on this as well .. It's not a big worry for me if the k's are a bit high as long as the car has been well maintained..

My father and grandfather seemed to have the opposite view..

I had an interesting chat with my grandfather about this and the comparison between the cars here and in our home country, Iraq. Back home we had plenty of cars but there were times when they bagan to import less and less cars.. The mileage was never an issue - cars used to go on for half a millions k's.. The only questions they'd be asking upon buying a car was which garage had done the head gasket, or other major repairs etc.. They knew what particular garages produced the best quality of work and in the end the garage that the car was maintained at affected the value of the car..

But their arguement was, if you live in a country where lower km cars are available, why not go for one?

Alan

[Heresharry 0]

Well theres a few things to look for IMO

1. Age vs Mileage (if its new and high miles or old and high etc)

2. Price (between the two and dont mind paying more for less k's)

3. Condition

Other than that i usually just go with how it drives and sounds

And as for Iraq well lets just say theres a reason the drive around in shitters-

Just look at the roads!!!

I spent 2 1/2 years there and never saw a new car!! good old bongo vans!

[westy 614]

Seems theres a few reasonable arguments each way.

Id pay more for a well maintained car at 150000ks than a badly maintained car at 50000ks.

For me it all comes down to the car and its merits.

Although I think it is possible for a car to only do 5000k a year in Jap traffic, which is scary in itself.

[_Alan_ 6]

Just look at the roads!!!

No need for that mate.

I was referring to it in my grandfathers day.

Alan

[ashmill 68]

Agree with most of you. My 2001 NZ new 530i has now done 255,000 kays. The first owner did 240 in the first 6 years. I have replaced the radiator and brake pads etc but you know what - it drives brilliantly and is in superb condition. Sadly it is on the market (see TM) because we don't need it anymore but if i had a choice i'd keep it.

Likewise my E34M5 has now done 242,000 kays (bought 8 years ago at 207) and has been one of the most reliable cars i have ever owned. So, don't let highish kays put you off - buy on condition and you can't go wrong. My 2c worth.

[pjay 8]

Highest km car ive owned was a GTZ levin with 212km's. Was great!! Just needed suspension replaced. The engine never gave me a hint of trouble.

Dads old hiace did 400km+ before he flicked it off to buy a new hiace. Ive got respect for the Toymotas lasting long periods of time.

Bought this bimmer at 108, plan on keeping her till she dies or until i can afford a 300kph+ car. We shall see how she goes.

Wont usually look at cars over 200km unless its for a run around or has an engine i know is tried and tested.

[silly76 0]

i use the kms to judge what the big ticket items might be coming up but he main thing for me is the overall condition and or desireablilty of the car.The kilometres themselves dont really come into it.Spending hundreds every 100.000 k for a new radiator and or new suspension bushings is more sensible to me than $10000-$20,000 for a new carAt 250,000 my 535 is no different than when i bought it at 147,000(except for the items mentioned above)

I agree with you. Look at the kms for the big ticket items that may start to need replacing, but I've driven cars that are well over 100kms, e.g. Rapala's E30 touring and damn it is just great. Up North, down South, it just drives so well. Depending on how a car has been looked after it can go for a long time.

[Apex 693]

My E30 drives well for a car with 240,000km’s on the clock, engines a bit tired but still drives nice, It does have a full service history though and money has been spent when it should. I have driven a few E30’s with half the kms and they were dogs..

We brought the 545i with higher Kms but same story NZ new and FSH accompanied by a BMW pre purchase inspection and it’s a minter, wouldn’t consider a Jap import with half the Kms as I would rather a car that has spent the majority of its life travelling at speed than a car that’s been sitting in traffic.

Having owned a couple of brand new cars I found it only really feels new for 10,000km and by then you have lost $10,000.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

I think a lot of the 100,000 being the magic number goes back a few years to when Odometers only had five digits, so 99,999 miles or kms then it went "round the clock" often with cars back then it wasn't always clear how many times it had been around the clock!!

Personally when buying a car I don't even bother to look at the Odo reading as this can distract you from looking at things that really matter, the condition, how it drives, what does/doesn't work, servicing, etc. As others have said many cars for sale have far from genuine readings anyway, all too easy to change, especially with digital read-outs.

Unless there is a FULL history, not just service history, that shows clearly the kms throughout the cars life and they all stack up, I wouldn't trust the Odo to be anywhere near accurate.

The other thing is how and where the car has been driven, an ex-UK sales reps BMW would have high miles from lots of motorway driving, which is not too strenuous on the cars mechanicals, a NZ new BMW driven by a retiree (for example) could have low kms but been only ever driven to the local shops and RSA and have much worse engine wear due to lots of cold starts and short journeys.

It's just trying to convince the public that want to buy the car you are selling of these things.... not easy!