So the E30 got a pink sticker!

[CamB 48]

It is this locating hub that supports the weight of the car.

The bolts only hold the wheel to the hub.

I see this quoted all the time as a fact, but it really doesn't make sense to me. You can buy two types of locating rings - soft aluminimum and even softer plastic, and they only stick into the wheel a max of about 4mm. There's no ay they support 300-400kg and the dynamic forces of driving.

It seems to me they ONLY locate the wheel precisely so that the wheel bolts can support the wheel.

Further to that, the 2002 has a flat hub so one could never argue it was designed to have the wheels supported on the part sticking out of the hub (there isn't anything).

Edited April 6, 2009 by CamB

[bravo 34]

Anyone making spacers should read the rules posted by cam themselves to ensure they get the details right. Theres a fair few little points in the rules you have to follow.

In regard to the 260 box, You are supposed to cert a manual conv. My car has a cert saying its manual, so I'm sweet, but prior to that I relied on the fact that as long as it wasn't the conversion that caused the accident, it wouldn't be picked up, or invalidate any claim. And you would argue that this exception applies in the case of a manual conversion:

Read 4.4 page 19

Edited April 6, 2009 by bravo

[*Glenn* 854]

Just spoke to Mark Stokes a LVV certifier who did my cert originally. He confirmed you need a cert for LTSA (WOF) & Insurance if you convert your car from automatic to manual. My cert has my car as a 5 speed auto, so now I need to get it recerted at a cost of $450......bugger.....more money

[westy 614]

I see this quoted all the time as a fact, but it really doesn't make sense to me. You can buy two types of locating rings - soft aluminimum and even softer plastic, and they only stick into the wheel a max of about 4mm. There's no ay they support 300-400kg and the dynamic forces of driving.

It seems to me they ONLY locate the wheel precisely so that the wheel bolts can support the wheel.

Further to that, the 2002 has a flat hub so one could never argue it was designed to have the wheels supported on the part sticking out of the hub (there isn't anything).

I'm not gonna argue with you, you could be right but I'm doubtful.

If that was the case then the wheel studs/bolts would be under horrible loads.

And Glenn, whats makes you think you need a cert?

Did you shorten the driveshaft?

E: It also states in the link you posted, Cam, that the hub must carry the weight of the vehicle not the wheel studs/bolts.

Edited April 6, 2009 by westy

[*Glenn* 854]

And Glenn, whats makes you think you need a cert?

Did you shorten the driveshaft?

No I didnt shorten the driveshaft.

I checked with Mark after reading this thread and reading the LTSA document Bravo posted. The cert on my car says its Auto... therefore it must be recerted to comply with friggen LTSA for WOF and for Insurance. If I got checked by a road block they could pinky me for my cert not complying as well. I know its trivial. If your car is not certed you would probably get away with it. I'd rather just get it done.

[westy 614]

Ah I see.

Thats a lot of cash for what is essentially an admin charge.

[*Glenn* 854]

Ah I see.

Thats a lot of cash for what is essentially an admin charge.

Exactly.. the LVV plates cost $80 plus hes got to check it again and do all the paper work

[bravo 34]

That would be right on a previously certed car, but a car that doesn't need a cert already should fall under the exemption clause.

For instance - before my cert I could change my wheels every day no worries, now the plate states 17x7 ET20 wheels, no spacers. So if I want to run 16's or a wider rim, I need to get it recerted.

Probably the biggest PITA as far as certing goes - once one thing breaks the threshold, everything comes under the certing umbrella.

[CamB 48]

I'm not gonna argue with you, you could be right but I'm doubtful.

If that was the case then the wheel studs/bolts would be under horrible loads.

E: It also states in the link you posted, Cam, that the hub must carry the weight of the vehicle not the wheel studs/bolts.

My argument is that they're under horrible loads anyway - you can't pretend that a plastic ring is going to make the difference.

[spacers must] be fitted as to ensure the wheel locates snugly over the hub spigot so that the hub carries the weight of the wheel assembly instead of the wheel studs, or where there is a mis-match between the hub spigot and the wheel centre, a close tolerance fit center bore locator must be provided

That statement is inconsistent, and if the spigot on the hub really was taking the weight of the car it would need to be an incredibly close tolerance fit (think tapping on with a hammer).

[joshnz 2]

Hey Josh, just to clarify, this happened in Palmy?

Did indeed Simon, very unfortunate.

So much talk about spacers, think I'm going to have to talk to the certifier before I go ahead with anything.

[Guest FrantiC]

That sucks.. I was told by the LVV cert guy around here who gave me the thresholds that auto to manual swap does NOT need to be certed UNLESS you have to: use non-OE mounting (custom gearbox mounts or modify engine mounts), Modify gearbox tunnel in any way, modify shifter hole, Or drivehshaft.

And I get VTNZ warrants fine, First time I took it through I mentioned the manual swap. Didn't seem to be a problem. to them as it just fitted exactly as it would in a standard manual.

But yeah I'm in the same shoes as you now mate, No licence for 3 months and a pink stickered car that will be getting a cert.. So while it's having down time............. Ill finally be painting it and turbo it while I'm taking my time. hehe

[zenetti 0]

There is a guy on the North Shore called Brugar Engineering on Barrys Point Road who is able to build a "spacer" into the back of any wheel and attach it to the wheel. I am not sure whether this requires certifying or not but is much the same as Sam's Schnitzer wheels. It may be worht investigating for some of you guys, in particular Matzy

[jochen 4]

Out of curiosity, why is it required to cert the 260? Because its not the box it came with? What happens when people blow their gearboxes and put in a replacement etc etc? Surely that doesn't need a cert. If they picked up that its the m20b25 as opposed to b20 then maybe I could understand the motor needing a cert, but the gearbox? Or did I miss something?

To put things in perspective:

New Zealand is one of the few countries in this worlkd where modifications of vehicles is still relatively free and easy.

Many countries - eg where I am now - have very tight regulations that state that any change from the original factory build needs to be inspected and certified by the regulators. Replacing broken parts with the same parts is of course OK, but modifying the verhicle requires certification.

Especialy for anything to do with vehicle safety or road safety.

A gearbox is a critical drivetrain component - the wrong gearbox can fail, causing safety issues especially if it failled at high speed. Or it may not physically fit, causing the installer to make structural modifications, which may mean the vehicle structural integrity is compromised. Or it may be heavier, meaining the safety margins in the load bearing components are compromised.

So yes, it would not surprise me that a gearbox change would need inspection and certification.

And where I am this is taken VERY SERIOUSLY. Modifying your car is dificult and expensive, because almost everything apart from stereo and seatcovers needs regulatory approval.

Anything that is not original needs certification.

I know guys here with modified cars that have a small library of documentation that provides the written evidence from the authorites that everything is OK.

And when his vehicle gets it's safety inspection done, all the documentation needs to be provide to the inspector.

Here: the safety inspections are very tough - no fluid leaks of any kind allowed, full exhaust emission checks are done, shock absorber checks on a vibrating test bed, and the usual plethora of inspections. And the car - including engine - has to be clean :-)

So don't be surprised that NZ is trying to catch up with the rest of the world, and increase the safety level on the streets, reduce road-deaths and injury, reduce the environmental impact of vehicles, and make the country a better place.

Too many cheap back-yard unsafe car modifications and irresponsible drivers are the root cause of the problem...

That's my 10c worth :-)

[*Glenn* 854]

And I get VTNZ warrants fine, First time I took it through I mentioned the manual swap. Didn't seem to be a problem. to them as it just fitted exactly as it would in a standard manual.

Your exempted if thats the only mod your car has. However once your car is certed and you make changes outside the cert, you have to get it recerted to comply. My car was certed as a 5 speed auto. Its now 5 speed manual..... so now I have to get it recerted to comply... otherwise I could get a pinky... trivial.. however....thats the law

[Guest FrantiC]

Your exempted if thats the only mod your car has. However once your car is certed and you make changes outside the cert, you have to get it recerted to comply. My car was certed as a 5 speed auto. Its now 5 speed manual..... so now I have to get it recerted to comply... otherwise I could get a pinky... trivial.. however....thats the law

Yeah nah I get that, I'm just talking in general with a auto tom manual swap it shouldn't need a cert if it's within the threshold to not require one.

My old 325i coupe had a 2.0l in it when I got it, though a PO somewhere down the line had it certed for having modified e21 engine mounts and gearbox X-member, by gearbox it was listed as a 6speed manual, 2500cc, suspension was something like 330mm front, 280mm rear i think. But that was from someone in the past.. No idea what it had in it though, but never gave me trouble in a WOF through VTNZ for that either.

I probably should have taken it off but didnt know if you were allowed to just pop it off.. I heard they bitch when you rivit your own cert plate in lol.

Edited April 7, 2009 by FrantiC

[joshnz 2]

Car is being dropped into Marty Jones in bunnythorpe tomorrow for first cert "look over" so will let you all know how it goes.

[joshnz 2]

OK - so cert is all paid for, I just have to do the work.

List as follows .....

Riding on bumpstops in rear, cause could be springs are to f**ked/soft so have to take stops out and see if it drops any lower, if it does, time to buy new springs which I'll prob do anyway to bring it up a bit.

Spacers - need to get some legal ones, the ones that were put are on f**king ridiculous and should not really be for sale as they are not legal at all (on a road car).

Seats/rails are fine, just need to get washers for all the bolts/screws.

Steering wheel bolts, half are missing, so I might just get a nice mtech wheel and gear knob or something tasteful.

Will have to get the guards heavily pumped out if I want to run the Alpina reps .. if I cant bring the front out enough I won't be able to run the wheels

Going to spend some time/$ on it this weekend and see what I can do. Might just end up getting new springs to raise it up a bit, its great getting staff prices on everything at Repco thanks to the lady friend.

[Nobimmer 694]

sh*t haven't been on here in ages.

Sucks dude.

Bullshit the car is riding on bumpstops in the rear! Unless you have a small african family in the boot it should have heaps of travel,even with a full car.

I doubt you're going to find a bolt on spacer thats only 9mm (which is what the slip on ones are). My friend got Brugar Engineering to slot the spacers and the hub and the spacers are held on with small grub screws, gets VTNZ wofs every time.

[Mash 0]

Dam wish i got in and brought that car, so hot!!

[CamB 48]

I doubt you're going to find a bolt on spacer thats only 9mm (which is what the slip on ones are). My friend got Brugar Engineering to slot the spacers and the hub and the spacers are held on with small grub screws, gets VTNZ wofs every time.

If that's what I think (spacer with hub-centric, plus held onto hub or wheel) it meets the requirements for a spacer for the low volume vehicle code too. It doesn't have to be a fully bolt on spacer.

Edited April 15, 2009 by CamB

[ED1RTY 2]

Hate to say i told you so but i knew those seats were fine.

Get coilovers.

Pump sh*t out of guards and get em re-painted while you are there

[Greg111 13]

Your exempted if thats the only mod your car has. However once your car is certed and you make changes outside the cert, you have to get it recerted to comply. My car was certed as a 5 speed auto. Its now 5 speed manual..... so now I have to get it recerted to comply... otherwise I could get a pinky... trivial.. however....thats the law

My cars certed with 17" wheels but has had 18" wheels for as long as i've owned it, never had trouble with WOFs etc, police officer has never asked to see the cert plate. Your issue Glenn maybe a little different though

Do your own WOFs.

[JiB 0]

You can get decent slip-ons with hubcentric inner (hub side) and outer (wheel side) with single stud holes. They're entirely legal with a cert.

[joshnz 2]

Shot for the comments guys. JiB, can you point me in the right direction, or are they easy to come by?

[JiB 0]

Shot for the comments guys. JiB, can you point me in the right direction, or are they easy to come by?

Had a quick look on trademe for you, looks like they're not so easy to come by any more

Here's an example of what I mean (I could've sworn they used to be cheaper!) - http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/C...n-212559159.htm

These should come in much skinnier sizes than a bolt on. To be honest, at those prices - it might pay to ask a machining shop how much for a set to be fabricated, I can't imagine they'd be that hard to do with for anyone with a lathe and a mill..and you can get exactly the specs that you want, 57.1mm (e30 inner) and whatever the size of the wheels you want to run Also, you can have the spacers the same size as the hub/bigger than the wheel's mounting surface for even more strength and less movement.

Try smaller companies like CNC Prototyping might be more willing to work on a small job like this?

Edited April 16, 2009 by JiB