Study show young drivers choose the wrong cars.

[Avenged.SSE 0]

Hmmm this has got me thinking about how many stars my facelift W220 would have O.O google is not being so straight forward

[Guest kis]

Hows this for an idea. If you cant afford a decent car, catch the bloody bus or get on your bike !

You dont have a 'right' to own a car as a teenager its a privilege. Just because you have a grand sitting in your back pocket when you turn 15 from the Post Office account your parents put $50 into every birthday and xmas, doesnt mean you have to spend it on a crap car.

All sh!tboxes should be pulled from the streets and crushed. It will raise the quality of cars on the road and hopefully make people treat driving with a bit more respect, in turn dropping the road toll.

The driving age should be 18 anyway. Imagine having to wait until your 18 and you had to spend a minimum of 5k on a car with the only insurance you could get was for a 1.3l hatchback and that cost you 1k a year.

That would sort the men from the boys.

[e30ftw 396]

BMX is FTW.

I've never felt so alive.

[|ncary 0]

An 18 year old is in the prime of his risk taking life, his circle of risk taking friends has developed, and he has been watching 'sick drifting' videos for a few years now. That is a recipie for death. Driving age is perfect where it is. Teach them how cars work before the prime of death defying stunt makings. Of course more driver training, skid control, practical xp blah blah blah.

[turboprop 0]

Hows this for an idea. If you cant afford a decent car, catch the bloody bus or get on your bike !

You dont have a 'right' to own a car as a teenager its a privilege. Just because you have a grand sitting in your back pocket when you turn 15 from the Post Office account your parents put $50 into every birthday and xmas, doesnt mean you have to spend it on a crap car.

All sh!tboxes should be pulled from the streets and crushed. It will raise the quality of cars on the road and hopefully make people treat driving with a bit more respect, in turn dropping the road toll.

The driving age should be 18 anyway. Imagine having to wait until your 18 and you had to spend a minimum of 5k on a car with the only insurance you could get was for a 1.3l hatchback and that cost you 1k a year.

That would sort the men from the boys.

Kis for prime minister.

Vote for kis!

[kingkarl 136]

Hows this for an idea. If you cant afford a decent car, catch the bloody bus or get on your bike !

You dont have a 'right' to own a car as a teenager its a privilege. Just because you have a grand sitting in your back pocket when you turn 15 from the Post Office account your parents put $50 into every birthday and xmas, doesnt mean you have to spend it on a crap car.

All sh!tboxes should be pulled from the streets and crushed. It will raise the quality of cars on the road and hopefully make people treat driving with a bit more respect, in turn dropping the road toll.

The driving age should be 18 anyway. Imagine having to wait until your 18 and you had to spend a minimum of 5k on a car with the only insurance you could get was for a 1.3l hatchback and that cost you 1k a year.

That would sort the men from the boys.

Why should a hard working teenager who behaves, follows the rules and has respect for other road users not be allowed to drive?

So what if they can't afford a decent car? Everyone has to start somewhere. As you pointed out, for some teenagers such as myself, our first car's were purchased with "pocket money". As soon as I was 15 I had my first car, which cost me $1700, from *cough* my nana *cough*.

My trusty first car enabled me to get a job, so I could deliver pizza's to "Men" like yourself. My first car was an investment. I earned several times the value of that car in the couple of years I delivered pizzas, and now that money is being put towards my Tertiary study next year. Would you rather I borrowed your interest free tax money to pay for my text books?

I think you've made some huge stereotypes. Not all crap cars are driven by young people. There are tens of thousands of poor families who run their 300,000km+ jappa's till the day the die because they cannot afford anything else! Are these people exempt from your crush the sh*t scheme?

Is there a direct correlation between owning a crap car and being a crap driver?

Why should the driving age be raised to 18? Because you don't like the fact that young people have some privileges? Or because it's a nice round number?

Oh and FYI, your late 80's early 90's 3 series BMW isn't the status symbol you think it is.

[Guest kis]

An 18 year old is in the prime of his risk taking life, his circle of risk taking friends has developed, and he has been watching 'sick drifting' videos for a few years now. That is a recipie for death. Driving age is perfect where it is. Teach them how cars work before the prime of death defying stunt makings. Of course more driver training, skid control, practical xp blah blah blah.

No no no no no.

I dont disagree that 18 is a bad time but thats as it stands at the moment. The reason its so bad is because you all got a licence at 15/16 when you still had your mum picking out your clothes out for you in the morning.

You didnt know how to actually handle a car and just did the 'robotron' actions you needed to pass your test...indicate 50 yards ahead so it blinked five times, get up to 80kph for 400 yards on the motorway, move your head in an exagerated motion when coming to a pedestrian crossing to show the tester you were looking etc etc.

In that time you got no proper driver training (because Uncle Dave took you out in the Falcodore a couple of times and said 'you'll be sweet'), no risk avoidance training, no skid pan training, nothing. Yet after two years cruising around you think you know it all and stop paying any attention to whats actually going on around you.

To make matters worse you can at that time start getting hammered at the local bar and as you cant yet handle your booze you get cockier and cockier about your ability to handle a car and you forgot how dangerous it can be and end up losing it.

The highest risk for a male in NZ of having an accident is two years after getting their licence. I havent met an 18 year old who doesnt think they know it all and too many 18 year olds I know have written off at least one car already.

[turboprop 0]

No no no no no.

I dont disagree that 18 is a bad time but thats as it stands at the moment. The reason its so bad is because you all got a licence at 15/16 when you still had your mum picking out your clothes out for you in the morning.

You didnt know how to actually handle a car and just did the 'robotron' actions you needed to pass your test...indicate 50 yards ahead so it blinked five times, get up to 80kph for 400 yards on the motorway, move your head in an exagerated motion when coming to a pedestrian crossing to show the tester you were looking etc etc.

In that time you got no proper driver training (because Uncle Dave took you out in the Falcodore a couple of times and said 'you'll be sweet'), no risk avoidance training, no skid pan training, nothing. Yet after two years cruising around you think you know it all and stop paying any attention to whats actually going on around you.

To make matters worse you can at that time start getting hammered at the local bar and as you cant yet handle your booze you get cockier and cockier about your ability to handle a car and you forgot how dangerous it can be and end up losing it.

The highest risk for a male in NZ of having an accident is two years after getting their licence. I havent met an 18 year old who doesnt think they know it all and too many 18 year olds I know have written off at least one car already.

And I bet when you got your license you went down to the local cop shop, jumped in the car with the copper, drove around the car park 3 times. Reversed back into the car park, and got your full license straight away.

You probally then went and I got blind drunk and drove around all weekend, it was alright because the cops didnt care and you could get away with it..

[Guest kis]

Not all crap cars are driven by young people.

Put your guns away mate. How many people have said in this thread so far they only bought a crap car, and heres the important bit....'when they were young', because thats all they could afford ?

Thats all I was responding to.

There are plenty of things you can do to get money without needing a car. Delivering pizzas is not the best example because you cant do it without a car can you ! Anyone living in town can get around on a bus or a bike so whats the problem ?

Seriously though....I congratulate you for your efforts as a 'sensible' teenager in what you did and how you achieved it. Its just a shame more people dont follow your example.

[Guest kis]

And I bet when you got your license you went down to the local cop shop, jumped in the car with the copper, drove around the car park 3 times. Reversed back into the car park, and got your full license straight away.

You probally then went and I got blind drunk and drove around all weekend, it was alright because the cops didnt care and you could get away with it..

Oooooooh. Now who's making the assumptions and following stereotypes.

I think my work is done for the night.

[turboprop 0]

Oooooooh. Now who's making the assumptions and following stereotypes.

I think my work is done for the night.

Awwww, bed time for glenn.

[kingkarl 136]

There are plenty of things you can do to get money without needing a car. Delivering pizzas is not the best example because you cant do it without a car can you ! Anyone living in town can get around on a bus or a bike so whats the problem ?

True true. But if your fortunate enough to live in a town like Tauranga where a bus ride into town requires 10 different connections and half a day's waiting around it's definitely not the desired option. Especially when it comes to walking home from your mates place at 6.15pm because the last bus left at 6.

I really wouldn't mind cycling, but I don't have the balls. There are SO many oblivious drivers that would poon me in a crash.

Seriously though....I congratulate you for your efforts as a 'sensible' teenager in what you did and how you achieved it. Its just a shame more people dont follow your example.

Thanks. But I'm definitely not squeaky clean. I'm sure you've got some good stories from your teenage car ownership too.

[Forrest 35]

Man I love Trolls.

And it isn't Glenn...

[Guest kis]

True true. But if your fortunate enough to live in a town like Tauranga where a bus ride into town requires 10 different connections and half a day's waiting around it's definitely not the desired option. Especially when it comes to walking home from your mates place at 6.15pm because the last bus left at 6.

I couldnt leave with a 'I used to ride twenty miles to school on a bike with no tyres in the snow' adage for you.

When I worked at a pizza joint in my student days, I didnt own a car (couldnt afford one ironically) so when my shift finished at 11.45pm I had to run a km to the only bus stop which had the 11.55pm bus to get me home. I then had to sit on that bus for 40 mins until it got to the stop closest to home and then I had to walk a further km or so to get to my house. The last kms was not through the classiest of places but it was what I had to do.

The only way to ensure I never missed the bus was to bribe the driver with a pizza every night !

So harden up mate. Weve all got stories of having to walk two kms to catch a bus for 30 mins, to catch a train for 40 mins, to catch another bus for 10 mins, to transfer to another bus for 30 mins, to walk another 2kms to work....and then I had to do it all in reverse to get home....and thats a true story by the way.

Its character building and it gives you something to bitch about when the youngsters who all own BMW's tell you how hard it is these days with their mobiles and ipods and jeans around their arses

I really wouldn't mind cycling, but I don't have the balls. There are SO many oblivious drivers that would poon me in a crash.

I do believe we have come full circle in this discussion....well done mate

Thanks. But I'm definitely not squeaky clean. I'm sure you've got some good stories from your teenage car ownership too.

I spun my parents car on a roundabout once. Somehow I managed to mount the kerb between two lamp posts but not hit anything. It scared the bejesus out of me. The thought of what I would get when I got home was more than enough to convince me not to try anything daft again.

I had two 'genuine' accidents in the early ninetees, one of which wrote my car off but wasnt my fault, and Ive not had a prang of any sort since.

No need to applaud

[iSO 0]

No no no no no.

I dont disagree that 18 is a bad time but thats as it stands at the moment. The reason its so bad is because you all got a licence at 15/16 when you still had your mum picking out your clothes out for you in the morning.

You didnt know how to actually handle a car and just did the 'robotron' actions you needed to pass your test...indicate 50 yards ahead so it blinked five times, get up to 80kph for 400 yards on the motorway, move your head in an exagerated motion when coming to a pedestrian crossing to show the tester you were looking etc etc.

In that time you got no proper driver training (because Uncle Dave took you out in the Falcodore a couple of times and said 'you'll be sweet'), no risk avoidance training, no skid pan training, nothing. Yet after two years cruising around you think you know it all and stop paying any attention to whats actually going on around you.

To make matters worse you can at that time start getting hammered at the local bar and as you cant yet handle your booze you get cockier and cockier about your ability to handle a car and you forgot how dangerous it can be and end up losing it.

The highest risk for a male in NZ of having an accident is two years after getting their licence. I havent met an 18 year old who doesnt think they know it all and too many 18 year olds I know have written off at least one car already.

look mate you need to snap into reality.

why do you think you go to school while your young? Its to learn. teach them while they are young. This is one of the main reasons why you get your learners licence so young.. so you can learn. All these probationary stages of your licences are for you to learn how to drive safely and properly. Its a proven fact that it is easier and faster to learn while you are young and your mind is expanding then when your older.

And about you and your campaign against old cars -

why would you give a young driver who has little experience driving a late model car?? theyre more likely to break it or ruin it so they get a dunga to learn on.

plus theyre usually cheap on gas and now is a difficult time and most want to save petrol during the recession and not many young drivers have jobs or do not make enough money to be filling up their car all the time or simply cannot afford a late model car(which i know is being repeated so many times)

and its not only young drivers that have old cars.

also if your a young driver..... how are you supposed to get hammered at the local pub/bar when your too young to drink??

Proper training for driving hasn't always been available like we do now untill quite recently(like last 4 years) and its not always free or cheap so this would not appeal to a young driver.

sure the youth death toll and crash rate is high... but you need to understand. times are different from when you were young. and it doesnt help that there is alot of youth in New Zealand and we are a small country. This all needs to be taken into consideration.

[louis297 0]

I reckon Kis is right here, im 15 and have my restricted its far to easy I dont think im a good driver or anything. Far from it actually, many of my mates think they are "the sh*t" at driving.

And there are still 16 year olds going to pubs and town, I know a lot of underage people who are doing so

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2122]

All sh!tboxes should be pulled from the streets and crushed. It will raise the quality of cars on the road and hopefully make people treat driving with a bit more respect, in turn dropping the road toll

Im going to assume you are oblivious to the fact your E30 (and mine for that matter) will be considered part of this category by the authorities?

Why should the driving age be raised to 18? Because you don't like the fact that young people have some privileges? Or because it's a nice round number?

I agree with you. 18 is too much. the school leaving age is 16, so therefore how are the kids who leave school at 16 because school is not the place for them going to get an apprenticeship? My dad is a tradesman, he wont take on any employee that doesn't have a minimum of a restricted license (one exception), and logic would assume the vast majority of tradesmen would be the same. (with the exception of maybe a mechanics/panel beaters where the customer comes to you)

[below not directed at you, are my own thoughts]

Im 17. i think i know it all on the road. ill agree to that. But as someone else said, i walked into the AA, took an inspector around the block and got my Riskies. 12 months later, and after a pointless Defensive Driving Course which taught nothing but logic with no practical what so ever, i took a different inspector around the block, this time narrating what i was doing at the same time.

Its one thing to be told what to do in the event you get into a skid. recalling theory a year later when you are on the wrong side of the road heading towards an 18 wheeler is easier said than done. been there done that, only a parked car instead (oil spill + 90 degree turn + rear wheel drive = FAIL).

My idea for the new system:

*Learners at any age. The earlier you get on the road the better in my mind. more experience has got to be a good thing. i know people will argue this.. and know it wont ever be implemented, but i was driving at 8 years old, and i believe that experience behind the has contributed to only having a single minor fender bender as my only crash in just under 10 years of driving.

*Restricted at 16, consisting of a practical on road test the same as now, as well as a practical session on the skid pad learning how a car handles when aqua planing/sliding. This should be with the option of using the car that the person will be driving for the majority of the time.

*Full licence should come at 18, possibly with a further practical component, as by this time kids have been working for a few years possibly, built a nice car that they love which is possibly different to their original car.

Edited December 17, 2009 by ethrty320

[Guest kis]

look mate you need to snap into reality.

why do you think you go to school while your young? Its to learn. teach them while they are young. This is one of the main reasons why you get your learners licence so young.. so you can learn. All these probationary stages of your licences are for you to learn how to drive safely and properly. Its a proven fact that it is easier and faster to learn while you are young and your mind is expanding then when your older.

Oh for christ sake. Did you actually read ANYTHING I said ?

You dont get taught how to handle a car, you just get taught how to pass your licence like a robot.

The probationary stages are a joke. Most of the time your just waiting for the time to pass before it rolls over the next stage.

When your at school you get TAUGHT for god knows how many years, as long as your paying attention. How does that compare to getting a licence for simply driving around the block ?

Edited December 17, 2009 by kis

[iSO 0]

Oh for christ sake. Did you actually read ANYTHING I said ?

You dont get taught how to handle a car, you just get taught how to pass your licence like a robot.

The probationary stages are a joke. Most of the time your just waiting for the time to pass before it rolls over the next stage.

When your at school you get TAUGHT for god knows how many years, as long as your paying attention. How does that compare to getting a licence for simply driving around the block ?

because its easier for you to learn while you are young then when your older.

school was used as an example. its an age old known fact.

cant teach an old dog new tricks.

cant teach an old lady to drive.

same theory. get my drift?

[mark247 38]

cant teach an old dog new tricks.

cant teach an old lady to drive.

same theory. get my drift?

Drifting is sweet

Kis was obviously brought up in a country where public transport worked or in the centre of Wellington or Auckland where maybe we dont need a car. Or he is a troll.

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2122]

Drifting is sweet

Kis was obviously brought up in a country where public transport worked or in the centre of Wellington or Auckland where maybe we dont need a car. Or he is a troll.

Lucky for some huh *rolls eyes*

(or maybe unlucky, depending on how you look at it )

[*Glenn* 854]

Awwww, bed time for glenn.

If you look at the time this was posted, I was with a group of Bimmersporters having our Xmas party

Edited December 17, 2009 by *Glenn*

[Grant 4]

Good god there are some idiots in here, I love it how all of the teenagers in here think that they are experts and can solve the ills of the world.

Nice work, was an amusing read. Now here is my opinion for what it is worth.

I'm of the opinion that getting your licence in NZ is far too easy, and that 15 is too young. I'm not so convinced that older cars are the issue, although it is acknowledged that older cars are not as safe as their modern counterparts, and that your modern average japanese hatchback is a much better place to be in an accident than your early 1990's 5 series BMW.

I also think that the NZ WOF does a pretty good job at keeping many unsafe cars off the road (with the exception of people who get a WOF by trickery or other illegal means).

Having lived in California for now over a year, where there is no WOF (or anything similar) and have seen some of the pieces of crap on the legally roads here, I think NZ is a step or two ahead in that regard. I have no examples from any other countries, so can't comment on anywhere else.

I am also of the opinion that it is too easy for younger drivers to drive cars that they are not suitably equipped (experience and ability wise) to drive. By this I mean cars that are too powerful, difficult to control. Again I'm not sure what the answers to this are, but I think having a much tougher/costlier insurance regime for more powerful/unsuitable cars may be a possibility and help restrict young drivers to suitable cars.

When I was young my parents bought me (yes...they bought me, I was lucky) a 1300cc Mitsi Mirage that I used for about 4 years. It was a great car to learn in. It was gutless, reliable and cheap to run. It was virtually impossible to get into trouble in it. They also enforced that I stuck to the conditions of my Learners and Restricted licences until I got my full licence.

My parents also made me take proper driving lessons from the outset, so I think I had a good start to my driving. I think that this would also benefit all new drivers.

Anyway those are my quick thoughts. Maybe some of the other posters in here should put in some intelligent thought rahter than just attacking others opinions.

As an aside I'm amazed that people think that Glenn is Kis. While they both have mature and intelligent opinions and thoughts, Glenn would post them under his own name and not need a pseudonym.

[Forrest 35]

hahah im not even gonna say why you made yourself look like a d*ck

Hahahahaha this is from the guy in his introduction thread that said he welded up the diff in his auto e30 320i.....

My 2c, more about the drivers and not the cars to a degree of course as Louis297 mentioned. Before I had my accident earlier this year I won't lie I thought I was invincible, 10 years playing Gran Turismo etc got it into my head that other brain dead idiots had accidents and not people like me. This changed obviously afterwards and my driving actions for the better. I feel NZ's licensing system is far too soft but so does the majority of New Zealand drivers who think they are Aryton Senna reborn......

All the sh*t in this thread has been said before and then locked in previous threads rah rah rah we are just going around in circles. So I think unless you have something insightful to say i.e things Kis has mentioned or Grant, don't bother.

Edited December 17, 2009 by Forrest

[Apex 693]

Sorry Graham, don't agree at all that the e36 isn't a safe car.

I had a head on smash in my fathers '95 320 sedan years ago. 100km straight into the front 3 quarters of a Toyota station wagon turning in front along state highway 27. Windscreen didn't smash, airbags didn't even go off and all the doors and the boot were still aligned perfectly and could open and close. The Toyota was pushed across the intersection and the couple inside needed medical attention. The car was noticeably bent and was almost unrecognisable from the front.

Thats partially the reason I have an E36 now, its one of the very few cars I actually feel safe in.

My uncle has a similar theory that his big car is safe purely because it’s big and can crush Tupperware cars like mine.

If say my Renault smashed into your BMW at 100kph it would disintegrate around me, its designed from the ground up to be safe, the passenger cell is like a roll cage in a race car, very hard to penetrate and bend. In a crash a car is best to disintegrate to absorb energy rather than occupants, I’d be happy if my car was completely written off but I had no injuries.

Lots of things we don’t think about go into modern cars to make them safe.

If you look at the time this was posted, I was with a group of Bimmersporters having our Xmas party

Wow don’t ya wish you stayed home and joined this conversation instead! Glenn as indeed at the pub.