Changing of the Give Way Rule

[leithcm 0]

I'd have to agree, at busy intersections people will just start running reds because they have had no chance to turn right.

I think that most urban "busy intersections" have a dedicated right turning lane, plus a right turn only arrow, so this "red light running" should not be an issue. Problem previously was that most streets were too narrow to provide 3 lanes, so authorities did with 2, a RH turn only, plus a straight through or left turn. It was the latter that caused problems, that coupled with people who were turning left who failed to keep an eye on their rear view mirror to see if following traffic was causing the right turning car to give way. If so, then they were supposed to go - but often did not, causing more delays and frustrations.

[allan 295]

Let confusion rain yet again on the roads Haha!!. On a more serious note it shows yet again the faults present in the NZ's road system, still in the sixties trying to deal with 21st century traffic volumes. With any vehicle changing direction danger is created so all care should be taken by the road designers and motorist alike ie a lane provided for that direction change and the driver knowing the road code. The left turning giving way to the right has always been an ifee one imo and could be gotten around without too much trouble. The person turning right and blocking the highway is the one that really gets me, pull over to the left and wait for a clear spot then do your turn or is that exercising to much common sense. No matter what we say this will happen and we will all have to change our driving habits to suit and if nothing else the only constant in life is change so get used to it.

[Dr. M 10]

Did you know that these present rules were derived from rules in Melbourne designed around the tram system there:

"The rule was introduced in 1977 after a change in Victoria to accommodate Melbourne's trams, but [Melbourne] abandoned the rule in 1993"

Source

Next they should definitely bring in left on red...

[sp8s 1]

I have to give way to other people on the road?

Shite when did that happen?

[bravo 35]

e. The person turning right and blocking the highway is the one that really gets me, pull over to the left and wait for a clear spot then do your turn or is that exercising to much common sense.

I'm following your logic here, and it's what the road code states, but on a busy road it can cause more carnage. There's now a car on the left trying to make its way across two lanes of heavy traffic, not just one.

Also, if there is enough room on the left for them to pull over, there's probably enough room for you to pass them on the left (carefully).

[aaronmartin 0]

I think we should adopt Soviet Russian rules = small car gives way to big car. Kinda like Remuera.

[kiwi535 538]

I'm following your logic here, and it's what the road code states, but on a busy road it can cause more carnage. There's now a car on the left trying to make its way across two lanes of heavy traffic, not just one.

Also, if there is enough room on the left for them to pull over, there's probably enough room for you to pass them on the left (carefully).

the danger here is the car on the highway going 100 k has to leave the seal to pass on the left.

[pureboiracer 0]

we should adopt something like this.

tried and tested...

[euroitalian 62]

Kicking the 'give way when turning left" rule into oblivian is the best move they could make. In a couple of years 99% of the doubters will wonder why we ever had such a stupid rule.

[master garion 1]

Kicking the 'give way when turning left" rule into oblivian is the best move they could make. In a couple of years 99% of the doubters will wonder why we ever had such a stupid rule.

IMO it's taken far too long for the Transport Agency to finally make the change. I can understand the reluctance - there's very little reward for this but carries quite a bit of risk. They will get blamed for any crashes as a result of ppl not understanding the rule change, but won't really get kudos if everything turns out sweet.

Changing the give way rule is good not just because it will "align NZ's road rules to the rest of the world". There are very good reasons for it:

1. Tourism and education are very big sectors of the NZ economy - this means that any given time, there are tens of thousands of tourists/students plying our roads who are not familiar with the "Right Hand Turn" rule. This rule change WILL reduce accidents.

2. Some of you have commented that it doesn't matter what the rule is as long as everyone follows it. WRONG. The current rule is frequently not observed or forgotten (even by locals who have driven here all their lives). This is because it's not logical nor natural. It's like someone made a rule that you can only eat with your left hand. Sometimes ppl will use their right hands by accident. i'm sure all you readers are well-versed in the right hand turn rule but how many of you can honestly put hand to heart and say you've never made a mistake re this rule in your entire driving life? You know the one - you're halfway turning left when you see a car turning right from the opposite direction and realised you should have given way?

3. Human error causes the majority of accidents. Hence it makes sense to reduce the role of human judgment at intersections. That's why we have traffic lights at busy intersections - it turns drivers into robots who follow the light signals.

Give way rules must be simple e.g. "go when clear". This is very simple - the human brain is less likely to make a mistake.

The "Right Hand Turn" rule we currently have is flawed:

The guy turning left is thinking about

a. should i stop or go?

b. are there cars in my lane who are going straight hence allowing me to make my left turn while the right turning car in the opposite direction is obstructed?

c. it's all clear but why is that right turning car not turning??? i'm gonna go!

The guy turning right is thinking about

a. should i stop or go?

b. that car's going straight, another one going straight...no wait he turned left without an indicator

c. ok this one's turning left so i can go....crash!!....bastard decided to go straight cos it wasn't the left he was looking for

d. ok this one's turning left but there's another going straight...wait some more

e. ok this one's turning left, i'm going.....ooops, the guy behind him was going straight and got impatient and overtook the left-turning vehicle on a single lane road...nearly smacked him....phew!

I could go on and on but i think you guys get the idea. The current rule forces drivers to think too much. The better drivers can handle it but for the majority of road users it's far too complex. I'm not too clued up on the statistics on this issue, but I read somewhere around 1 to 2 deaths a year can be attributed to the "right hand turn" rule. It may not seem that bad but you've gotta realise that NZ has an extremely low population density. For an extreme example, if you had a city the size of Auckland but it only had 10 drivers/cars, even if they were all blind and drunk and drove at 300km/h, you'll still probably never have an accident ever.

Edited September 30, 2010 by master garion

[Lucan 196]

The guy turning right is thinking about

a. should i stop or go?

b. that car's going straight, another one going straight...no wait he turned left without an indicator

c. ok this one's turning left so i can go....crash!!....bastard decided to go straight cos it wasn't the left he was looking for

d. ok this one's turning left but there's another going straight...wait some more

e. ok this one's turning left, i'm going.....ooops, the guy behind him was going straight and got impatient and overtook the left-turning vehicle on a single lane road...nearly smacked him....phew!

I do this every afternoon turning down my Road.

I'm the car (red square) in the middle of the road turning right.

Theres no way of telling if the red square coming the other way is pulling over in the shops park directly left, turning left down my road or turning left in the straight ahead side st....

[bravo 35]

Mad MS Paint skills bro!

[Lucan 196]

Fook yea, my work gave me a sick ball mouse, makes the picture hard to differentiate from a birds eye photo IMO

[euroitalian 62]

Yeah they need to just do it and stop wasting money researching and defending. Previous government spent approx 1 million of taxpayers money researching this and came up with the answer: Bad rule, should be changed. Their response to this: Its too hard! Why then spend all that cash in the first place?

[westy 614]

Fook yea, my work gave me a sick ball mouse, makes the picture hard to differentiate from a birds eye photo IMO

Thought it was Google maps there for a sec.

[leithcm 0]

I'm following your logic here, and it's what the road code states, but on a busy road it can cause more carnage. There's now a car on the left trying to make its way across two lanes of heavy traffic, not just one.

Also, if there is enough room on the left for them to pull over, there's probably enough room for you to pass them on the left (carefully).

It is OK to sit in the middle of the road to await an opportunity to turn right - but only if there is a lane specifically marked! Thre are plenty of places on the South Island roads where this is the case, but if there is no marking allowing you to sit in the middle then move to the left, wait, then cross over (albeit through two lanes!)

[leithcm 0]

Kicking the 'give way when turning left" rule into oblivian is the best move they could make. In a couple of years 99% of the doubters will wonder why we ever had such a stupid rule.

+1!

I clearly recall driving pre 1977 when the new rule was the norm then, and it never caused any issues. At the intersection, people turning left had right-of-way, no issues!! Everyone gave way! The reluctance to change back MAY have something to do with "red faces" for making such a dumb decision in the first place! Not very often one praises the Aussies, but on this one when they realised "What a c**k-up!!" they changed - pronto!

[bravo 35]

I'm still going to have to say i think it's better to have to wait for a right-turning car than have it way over on the left, half blocking the lane anyway, indicating right. You're going to slow down to a crawl to go past anyway if you've got half a brain as you've got no idea if they've seen you and aren't about to pull out in front. At least in the middle of the road you know they're not about to turn into you.

It's like the idiots who don't wait while someone is parallel parking. The parker doesn't want to move as they're worried about collecting the guy going past as their nose swings out, and so they just sit there, meanwhile the traffic is now weaving out over the centreline to go past. If the traffic just stopped for all of about 10 seconds they guy could park and flow would be back to normal.

There's nothing wrong with waiting a few seconds for someone to manoeuvre safely rather than pushing past in a self-important fashion.

But for everyone that agrees with my way of doing things there's probably 1 that disagrees, 1 that doesn't care, and 5 that don't know what we're talking bout.

[Wom 0]

I'm all for the new rules

I just wish it was coming in sooner ... now people are going to be thinking about it for a year and a half and I bet there will be a few people that will try to use the new rules before they come into effect

Also, what about the people learning to drive at the moment?

"You do this now, but in 18 months you need to remember to do the opposite"

[greenday-rulz21 6]

The current rules don’t work and the new rules won’t work either because all other drivers are retarded.

Amen to that.

I personally don't have anything against the current rule as I was brought up with it and its all I know. I fully understand it and I go by it. There are times when you are held up by it and the people in front turning are idiots and block you or don't go etc but im used to that haha.

Have nothing against the new rule. If its implemented then thats it, will do that but there will always be some d*ck who doesn't know or understand.

[master garion 1]

Agree that there will always be bad drivers on the roads (we seem to have lots of them here in NZ) but what the rule change will do is to reduce driver decision making and hence a lot of the uncertainty around intersections.

Under the current rule, all drivers approaching an intersection have to decide what to do - left turning driver, right turning driver, going straight driver.

Under the new rule, only the right turning driver has a decision on his hands.

Bad/stupid drivers don't make good decisions. Less decisions to make = safer roads hopefully?

[kiwi535 538]

my arguemnt against the change is stated before i think.The left turning car is giving way to the car coming from the right...so is not illogical.The new change is also illogical where you make an exception for the right hand rule for the guy on the main road.

so the arguments for logical are out the window