Wideband o2 controllers

[thorburn 121]

What to get?

I want as fast and accurate as I can afford? budget is $700

Currently the NGK AFX with NTK sensor is at the top of my list

If anyone knows of a supplier in NZ for these that'd be great too.

Any other controllers people could recommend?

Edited May 5, 2011 by bbs

[hybrid 1043]

Go this system ... have a look at the videos .. makes a whole bunch of sense. They have a awesome rep with the tuners.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/MTS.php

[polley 916]

The LC1's are known for randomly dying.

Ive got one of the original SLC DIY's from 14point7.com It seems to work fine, and can also log 5 or so analog inputs, RPM, MAP, and a thermocouple. The newer version does even more and even has a accelerometer. Mine seems to be working great.

But if you're looking at spending $700~ on a wideband, you probably aren't looking at buying something like this.

[Lucan 196]

I have an Innovate LC-1.

I didn't even consider anything else.

[MLM 57]

I have a lc1 also. Has dropped out with error 8 a few times (sensor too hot or too cold - not a particularly useful fault code) Does come back with a switch off on. Also car is not fully tuned so could be that also. Known for ground offset issues but that comes down to your wiring. So far besides the error 8 which i putting down to my tuning im happy so far.

[thorburn 121]

I've had a bit of a look into the innovate products. It seems they (in particular the lc1) are very sensitive to bad grounding and the sensors are known for wearing faster then with other controllers. Like almost all widebands i've read good and bad things about the accuracy and speed of the product. I found this interesting

. I'd like to see how others also compare but haven't yet found any direct comparisons.

I watched the LC1 video and the 2 guys garage video(I did skip through this). Neither of which gave any comparison to any other controllers.

I do believe the innovate product is good and up to the task. But I feel the same about AEM, prosport, autometer, ngk and most of the other budget widebands.

I've also had a look at a few DIY widebands like the tech edge gear. But I haven't yet found anything that stands out

I've had a bit more of a study up and found this old thread http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16980

I'm a bit of a fan of Greg Banish after reading one of his books.

[thorburn 121]

I have a lc1 also. Has dropped out with error 8 a few times (sensor too hot or too cold - not a particularly useful fault code) Does come back with a switch off on. Also car is not fully tuned so could be that also. Known for ground offset issues but that comes down to your wiring. So far besides the error 8 which i putting down to my tuning im happy so far.

I'd of thought the LC1 should be perfectly capable of measuring while tuning. I'd imagine that is what the majority of people use it for.

[polley 916]

I'd of thought the LC1 should be perfectly capable of measuring while tuning. I'd imagine that is what the majority of people use it for.

I think he means it could be his tune. Possibly too rich / lean? Should'nt really effect the sensor tho.. Maybe the placement is not too good and it is getting too hot or maybe too cold. Is it possible to view the temperature of the sensor with the LC1 while it is operating?

[jimmy01 0]

What ecu are you using? Some have their own lambda drivers/controllers and others have piggyback units especially for them.

Placement could definitely be a problem. It's always good practice to put sensors in the side of an exhaust ( sensor axis running parallel to ground). If it's onto top they aremore prone to being effected by heat and on the bottom they are more likely to get moisture or debri on them.

[MLM 57]

I think he means it could be his tune. Possibly too rich / lean? Should'nt really effect the sensor tho.. Maybe the placement is not too good and it is getting too hot or maybe too cold. Is it possible to view the temperature of the sensor with the LC1 while it is operating?

Yep Im blaming my tune at the moment (easier to swallow than wasted money on a product). Its on my 318is ITB project. The sensor has an temperature operating range to read AFR sucessfully. However if the sensor is to hot from excessivly retarded ignition building heat in the exhaust or poor placement or to cold because of placement then it drops out with the error 8. Lots of talk on the innovate forum about this error with some believing its a indicator of combustion quality (flame path not completeness). I have experienced the problem twice at light throttle motor way cruiseing. Its wired to my link ecu (a feature that influenced the purchace decision).

My tune is just guesses at the moment as this is the first time i have done this sort of thing and its only to make the car mobile and isnt driven daily. A few mods are still waiting untill the final dyno tune.

Edit: No you cant monitor sensor temp. Somthing i would really like to do given the error faults

Edited May 6, 2011 by MLM

[polley 916]

Yes the O2 sensor needs to be at 750[c] +/- 25[c] If the sensor is out of this range it will be inaccurate, if it is run for prolonged times at a temperature that is out of spec you can cause damage to your sensor.

Does the LC1 software allow you to view the current temperature of the sensor? As this should give you good indication if the sensor is not far enough down stream or too far up the manifold or exhaust. I think it is unlikely that your ignition timing would be far off enough to effect the O2 sensor, tho possible (if your timing was that retarded it would run like crap?) If the sensor is in factory posistion, I guess you can rule all this out and put it down to the tune or LC1.

[polley 916]

Edit: No you cant monitor sensor temp. Somthing i would really like to do given the error faults

Hrrm that kinda sucks. The SLC can do it, and I was amazed at how close it can keep the sensor at 750[c] under all engine loads.

[Lucan 196]

Isn't there a suggested distance from the engine the sensor should be put into?

[polley 916]

Isn't there a suggested distance from the engine the sensor should be put into?

Im not sure if there is a suggested distance (as it could possibly be different for different engines, but I guess there is a rule of thumb people go by), the only thing I read in my wideband manual was that it needs to be at a distance that allows the sensor to run at the specified temperature.

It pretty much suggested that if the sensor was too hot to move it down stream, and that if it was too cold to move it up stream. You can get heat sinks for the O2 sensors if they are getting too hot and you dont want to move it.

I havent read the LC1 manual, maybe it says somthing about a recomended distance?

[MLM 57]

LC1 specifies no closer than 300mm from a turbo IIRC. Nothing for NA cars. Innovate sell a tailtipe clamp also so they can run at the end of the exhaust. If to cold the electrical heater is suposed to keep up...

I just read in the manual that the error i am seeing can be caused by sudden rich conditions outside operating parameters. This could also be the problem as i may not have had overrun fuel cut turned on triggering the error 8 timing issue?

[polley 916]

LC1 specifies no closer than 300mm from a turbo IIRC. Nothing for NA cars. Innovate sell a tailtipe clamp also so they can run at the end of the exhaust. If to cold the electrical heater is suposed to keep up...

Hrrm, that is true and some thing I hadn't considered.

I just read in the manual that the error i am seeing can be caused by sudden rich conditions outside operating parameters. This could also be the problem as i may not have had overrun fuel cut turned on triggering the error 8 timing issue?

Possible, turn on overrun fuel cut and see if it helps.