E46 M3 - Suspension Options?

[CSET 583]

Hi all,

I'm going to start looking at replacing my shocks shortly, and am keen to hear about some options and your experience.

I purchased the car with H&R lowered springs on standard shocks - I was initially keen to bin the lot and put in a good set of springs and shocks, however have had varying experiences with a few different brands in the past. The combination of uprated Koni shocks and H&R springs worked well in my Accord Euro, Jamex springs in my Integra were rubbish, and Lovells in my Civic weren't much better. This car is totally different and I have no experience on european suspension. I have also considered going the coilover route, but is there really any benefit to having adjustable coilovers if I'm going to 'set and forget'? I really can't seem myself under the car changing suspension settings... and I'm not planning on extensively tracking the car.

I've read all over different forums and offshore sites, and have come up with all types of brands I've never heard of. Examples: Nitron and Moton? Thorney Motorsport and PSS9? Bimmerforum

It's all a bit bloody confusing so thought I'd just ask those who know what they're talking about. My questions to you - what is the best 'street' suspension that is proven and available in NZ for the e46 m3? I do understand 'best' is very subjective, and have asked it this way as I'm looking for opinions. Keeping price aside at the mo'; it will be a consideration, but I'd rather wait and save a bit more to get the best available parts rather than cheap out and end up with something unbalanced or rubbish.

[Apex 693]

So do you like the ride and height that the H&R springs give?

Are the shocks worn out, what is the actual problem with them?

The answer for me is always going to be buy new replacement OEM or a nice set of Bilstein shocks.

[kinetik 4]

If I was ever going to change mine, I'd go with KW v1s or v3s. There is a KW distributor in NZ (autoquip.co.nz), but it may be cheaper to bring them in from Europe/UK yourself.

Edited October 11, 2012 by kinetik

[hybrid 1043]

KW v1 and 2 use Koni adjustible inserts and Eibach springs. I had the v2 setup in the old 330i and it was very good. (also eibach sway bars)

The PSS9 is a cool system but over priced for what you get in my opinion.

Another shock is Öhlins -- pretty much one of the best you can get.

There are a few others around .. look out for the cheaper and noname brands. Longevity is an issue usually.

PM M3_Power and ask him to take you for a hoon in his CSL with top of the line Koni CS's ... actually dont. It will make you want them and im not sure 10k is a sain suspension budget lol.

[CamB 48]

I dunno if Moton rule themselves out because of price, but they are race-team quality/performance, I believe.

[CSET 583]

So do you like the ride and height that the H&R springs give?

Are the shocks worn out, what is the actual problem with them?

The answer for me is always going to be buy new replacement OEM or a nice set of Bilstein shocks.

Thanks Apex. Happy with the current ride height, and raising a bit doesn't worry me. Would rather not go any lower if possible; the front lip is getting a bit close on some driveways currently.

There's no real problem I'd like to fix - the back end doesn't feel as planted as I'd like. This could be anything from bushes to swaybar, or even in a figment of my imagination...! I'm assuming it's on standard shocks from new, which would now be 8 years and 80,000kms old.

I have read in a number of offshore forums that for the price of OEM shocks, you can purchase better quality branded aftermarket items. I'm not too fussed with sticking to OEM everything (can always revert); I just want what gives the best long-term result.

[CSET 583]

KW v1 and 2 use Koni adjustible inserts and Eibach springs. I had the v2 setup in the old 330i and it was very good. (also eibach sway bars)

The PSS9 is a cool system but over priced for what you get in my opinion.

Another shock is Öhlins -- pretty much one of the best you can get.

There are a few others around .. look out for the cheaper and noname brands. Longevity is an issue usually.

PM M3_Power and ask him to take you for a hoon in his CSL with top of the line Koni CS's ... actually dont. It will make you want them and im not sure 10k is a sain suspension budget lol.

Thanks Hybrid,

I've heard of Ohlins before - if it's one of the best you can get this sounds interesting. I'd be interested to know a bit more about M3_Power's setup - I'm aiming for a street application with a bit of track time (not much), so if the Koni CS's are very stiff and aimed at track use then I'll probably avoid.

I don't mind firm suspension, but this is my daily driver..!

[CSET 583]

If I was ever going to change mine, I'd go with KW v1s or v3s. There is a KW distributor in NZ (autoquip.co.nz), but it may be cheaper to bring them in from Europe/UK yourself.

Thank you kinetik - I've heard some negative stories about KW suspension, mainly that it wears out faster than competitive offerings. To be fair, this was a few years ago.

How would KW stack up against Ohlins? In my mind, it's a completely different ballpark, but this is why I'm asking!

[CSET 583]

Top down rating

- Ohlins - just sensational

- Koni - just superb

- Bilstein - supposed to be fantastic but not my choice

Make sure you do your homework and match springs to car weight, driving style, wheel size, roll bar sizes AND the shock and valving you choose.

Exackery what I'm after - thank you very much 3pedals. I'll need to read up more now that I have all this info - thanks very much team.

[CamB 48]

Nice but alloy bodies in our coastal environmemt I hear fiZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

A good point!

I dream of them on my race car (after dreaming of it working first) so corrosion not a concern.

[kinetik 4]

There's no real problem I'd like to fix - the back end doesn't feel as planted as I'd like. This could be anything from bushes to swaybar, or even in a figment of my imagination...! I'm assuming it's on standard shocks from new, which would now be 8 years and 80,000kms old.

First thing I'd look at would be the rear trailing arm bushings. If they haven't been changed already, they'll almost certainly be bad. Mine were gone at 64,000kms.

[Apex 693]

Thanks Apex. Happy with the current ride height, and raising a bit doesn't worry me. Would rather not go any lower if possible; the front lip is getting a bit close on some driveways currently.

There's no real problem I'd like to fix - the back end doesn't feel as planted as I'd like. This could be anything from bushes to swaybar, or even in a figment of my imagination...! I'm assuming it's on standard shocks from new, which would now be 8 years and 80,000kms old.

I have read in a number of offshore forums that for the price of OEM shocks, you can purchase better quality branded aftermarket items. I'm not too fussed with sticking to OEM everything (can always revert); I just want what gives the best long-term result.

It really comes down to what you use the car for and what you want to achieve.

There are a lot of race type shocks available but they may be way more than what you need, heck they are more than what a lot of proper race cars use, it’s a bit like buying the same shoes Usan Bolt wears to walk out and check the mailbox. Overkill.

IMHO the E46 M3 is very good OEM and if I owned one I would just leave it as is but with the OEM 18†wheels, to be fair a OEM E46 M3 is still more talented than me and if I ever got to the stage where I felt I could drive better than the car I would perhaps look at an upgrade, but at that point it would not be an off the shelf solution, it would be a custom setup tuned locally. I would look at upgrading the brakes first, that is the E46 M3's weakest point.

As you say OEM replacement’s may cost more than a good set of Bilsteins, have been in a few BMW’s with Bilstein and H&R and they seem to work very well together and to me seem like the best OEM+ upgrade and value for money with the added bonus of local susport if you ever needed them rebuilt or revalved.

Can recommend Anthony at Alignment Specialists in Penrose for Bilsteins, I have no affiliations with him, just recommend him because he is honest, fair priced, has good product knowledge and does a good job. Might be worth a visit.

http://www.alignmentspecialists.co.nz/

[CSET 583]

First thing I'd look at would be the rear trailing arm bushings. If they haven't been changed already, they'll almost certainly be bad. Mine were gone at 64,000kms.

Thank you will get them checked out!

[CSET 583]

It really comes down to what you use the car for and what you want to achieve.

There are a lot of race type shocks available but they may be way more than what you need, heck they are more than what a lot of proper race cars use, it’s a bit like buying the same shoes Usan Bolt wears to walk out and check the mailbox. Overkill.

IMHO the E46 M3 is very good OEM and if I owned one I would just leave it as is but with the OEM 18†wheels, to be fair a OEM E46 M3 is still more talented than me and if I ever got to the stage where I felt I could drive better than the car I would perhaps look at an upgrade, but at that point it would not be an off the shelf solution, it would be a custom setup tuned locally. I would look at upgrading the brakes first, that is the E46 M3's weakest point.

As you say OEM replacement’s may cost more than a good set of Bilsteins, have been in a few BMW’s with Bilstein and H&R and they seem to work very well together and to me seem like the best OEM+ upgrade and value for money with the added bonus of local susport if you ever needed them rebuilt or revalved.

Can recommend Anthony at Alignment Specialists in Penrose for Bilsteins, I have no affiliations with him, just recommend him because he is honest, fair priced, has good product knowledge and does a good job. Might be worth a visit.

http://www.alignmentspecialists.co.nz/

Top form, thank you very much. Will call Anthony when I'm ready to replace. Thank you again.

[hybrid 1043]

Stock e46 suspension is good but if your after something that will make you go 'wow' then going with what 3pedals and myself have suggested will defanitely give you that.

You can keep your ride height with a hieght adjustible front struts and rear spring perch. Great thing is you can even go higher if you want and just get a full wheel alignment done afterwards along with checking the chamber settings front and rear.

My suggestion to you is go for around 450-500 pound progressive spring and keep the stock swaybars as going to a harder / bigger sway bar front and rear can make driving open road more of a chore. This spring rate for your car weight will be a great road upgrade and entertain you well if youre ever wanting to attend the odd track day.

Also make sure your shocks are top adjustible. When you have to get under the car for side adjustible shocks, it just gets to be a pain in the ass.

Linear springs are really for track racing and dont adsorb inital small bumps that well.

Another worthwhile upgrade is replacing any worn bushes. This can also help amazingly with handling.

[CSET 583]

Stock e46 suspension is good but if your after something that will make you go 'wow' then going with what 3pedals and myself have suggested will defanitely give you that.

You can keep your ride height with a hieght adjustible front struts and rear spring perch. Great thing is you can even go higher if you want and just get a full wheel alignment done afterwards along with checking the chamber settings front and rear.

My suggestion to you is go for around 450-500 pound progressive spring and keep the stock swaybars as going to a harder / bigger sway bar front and rear can make driving open road more of a chore. This spring rate for your car weight will be a great road upgrade and entertain you well if youre ever wanting to attend the odd track day.

Also make sure your shocks are top adjustible. When you have to get under the car for side adjustible shocks, it just gets to be a pain in the ass.

Linear springs are really for track racing and dont adsorb inital small bumps that well.

Copied and pasted to take with me - thank you Hybrid, much appreciated.

[Apex 693]

Stock e46 suspension is good but if your after something that will make you go 'wow' then going with what 3pedals and myself have suggested will defanitely give you that.

Another worthwhile upgrade is replacing any worn bushes. This can also help amazingly with handling.

I am just cartoonishly cheap and persrscripe to the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality and find it hard to see the point in racing suspension on a road car. Agree you can probably make things more "wow" if you just want to spend money on something.

Personally, I wanted more "wow" I will just go out in the rain with the traction control switched off or take the 3.5k it would cost for some entry level coil overs and spend it on an week long entry to Targa Tour, would give a lot more 'wow" for the money and I would learn how to drive the beast and probably make you faster than most guys with 5k suspension.

Agreed new bushes would be a great place to start.

[M3_Power 636]

How many km have you done in your car?

OEM shocks last about 50K km before they crap out, so anything above it I would say they are pretty worn.

But do check your RTAB first - I recommend adding a limiter kit - best bang for buck modification you can do to the rear end and it'll help with the rear floor tearing. Don't go poly bushes as they can be noisy. OEM RTAB + limiters is the way to go (short of going BMW motorsport solid bearings).

I have a set of AC Schnitzer Coilovers that I no longer use which you are more than welcome to try - they are Bilstein PSS9 revalved by AC Schnitzer with their custom springs. Pretty good for the occasional track days (not spectacular, but not bad) and nice and soft if you want it for a daily. The standard setup height is ironically identical to the CSL ride height (fronts are coilovers, but the adjustment is limited to about 3/4 of an inch top to bottom, rears are on spacers - two height settings).

In terms of coilovers I'd rate the E46 M3 setup in the following (I've left out Konis as there are simply too many types out there and not all are the same - the advanced design stuff is good, but some have reported them to be a bit noisy. Also I've not mentioned Ohlins, as they don't really do an off the shelf kit as such for the E46 M3 specifically - the race stuff is out of this world expensive and in my opinion not the best bang for buck) - money no object (from the best money can buy to something pretty decent):

1. Sachs 4 way or 3 way (these are awesome and nothing beats these, not even Motons) - M3 GTRs run these ... I need not say more.

2. Motons 3 ways (4 are overkill really unless there's a big prize money to be had and you can actually utilise it or know how to set them up) - Later ALMS M3 GTRs used the Motons, but I suspect more to do with cost saving measures.

3 = Intrax 3 ways - seriously good shocks but requires you to turn the rear end into a full coilover setup (recommended with a cage only)

3 = Nitron 3 ways - there's a set on a CSL here and I've had the pleasure of driving them, they are bloody good for the money and a very well built system (I've however heard that recent changes with Nitron have meant that quality have slipped a bit)

5 = KW Race 2 or 3 ways (I personally run the 2 ways - but honestly these are way too harsh for everyday driving - I ended up taking them out of the car because they were so freaking uncomfortable to use on the road)

5 = AST Inverted race shocks - on the same level as KW Race in my opinion (some rate them slightly lower, others higher)

7. KW Clubsport range - these are a step higher than the v3 shocks and basically feature a higher valving V3 shock body with linear rate springs.

8. Any of the KW V1, V2, V3.

9. Bilstein PSS10

Before you pick anything do your homework first - feel free to ask, I know just about every system out there for the E46 M3.

Word of warning with the KW stuff (I have them and run them, but it's a bit of love it and hate it thing for me). The V1, 2 and 3 stuff is okay and value for money, but just be weary that some of their kits require spacers up front as KW modify the front sway bar link pick up and on the V3 kit sometimes they don't clear the front wheels (it's a stupid design if you ask me, but meh ..)

KW race stuff are brilliant with great backing from KW factory (think Loaded CSL and his KW 3 ways when he set the Nurburgring record - you can buy an identical setup to his car if you want, KW keep all specs for individual race shocks in house, so they can easily build you a new set when needed) All the race stuff is rebuildable, but you have to send them back to Germany (note, absolute pain in the ass to do!!!)

Nitrons are seriously brilliant bit of kit and bang for buck if you want something really track focused and serious - but they are honestly not suitable for the road (especially the 3 way stuff - pure racing only)

Just ask if you have any questions - but beware, not all aftermarket coilovers are bolt in so to speak - some of the cheaper stuff have weird camber plates and will not clear your front wheels - some have really poorly designed front sway bar links that also make installation a bit of a bitch.

Edited October 11, 2012 by M3_Power

[hybrid 1043]

Firstly, I agree with what everyone is saying and the brands or otherwise suggested by all.

The thing to keep in mind is the car is his daily driver so going to a full race setup probably isnt the best option, however wanting some 'more' than stock (remembering stock is while in the m3 better than m-sport still built for the road)

Knowing the car and what youre probably looking for is something that gives you that "that was a dam cool drive" after some open road twisties or no wollowing when you go to the track for the odd track day.

For this something around the KW v1,2 or 3 road range would be perfect. This will still stay in the normal realms of price range (sub 4k)

Just going by experince for a daily driven e46 with modified suspension running the same wheel and tyre combo hes running and the experiences I had going to hard or too expensive can wear thin after a while. But getting something that you feel like that 3-4k youve just spent was defanitely worth it and continues to deliver and suprise you for years to come.

Things I wouldnt recommend for your daily.

Thicker uprated sway bars with 19inch wheels and 35/30 profile tires. Makes open road driving a challange on B-roads

Linear springs .. cant adsorb whooops or fast bumps in the road well (again partly a low profile tyre thing)

front strut braces, same thing as the sway bars .. the tower really need to move .. it effects steering a little to much and removes the small dead zone you have which means on long trips your always having to correct the steering wheel (gets old real quick)

Going anything harder the poly bushes .. makes for harsh ride .. cats eyes rattle your bones

Too much or two little camber outside of spec. Tire wear and can increase the darting feeling on corners.

Shocks wound up too hard compared to spring rates, will cause your bones to rattle for no reason.

Too soft, getting too much bounce going on, Anything more than one rebound for the shock is too much.

think that covers it ?

[swordfish 30]

I am not sure if anyone here had any experience with FK Silverline X coilovers. I have gone that route on my E36 M3 Euro. I can not comment on them as of yet, since I am replacing the entire suspension on my car (Takes me for ever as I am doing it with random tools in my parents garage). I mean I am replacing everything, every single bush to every single arm, so it takes ages... Anyway... These coilovers are dampening and height adjustable with stainless steal bodies (no worries about rust at all ) and Koni inserts and custom springs. I know you can set them higher and much lower than OEM set up... And they are just slightly firmer than OEM on soft setting. The kit is developed on Nurburgring and assembled in Germany. It has lifetime warranty. Very very well built kit, I can confirm! A lot of people in US are running them on their street/track E46 M3s and love them more than KWs and other set ups. Their inserts are not shortened, so they are much comfier and last much longer on normal roads. Taking into account roads in Christchurch at the moment, that was one of the most important qualities for me. I have ordered a kit from ECStuning guys in US. They are amazing to deal with, very fast response and very quick shipment. Here is a link:

Link

I know these might not be the most recognised kit in the World, but could be one suitable for you.

Edited October 12, 2012 by swordfish

[Apex 693]

Firstly, I agree with what everyone is saying and the brands or otherwise suggested by all.

The thing to keep in mind is the car is his daily driver so going to a full race setup probably isnt the best option, however wanting some 'more' than stock (remembering stock is while in the m3 better than m-sport still built for the road)

Knowing the car and what youre probably looking for is something that gives you that "that was a dam cool drive" after some open road twisties or no wollowing when you go to the track for the odd track day.

For this something around the KW v1,2 or 3 road range would be perfect. This will still stay in the normal realms of price range (sub 4k)

Just going by experince for a daily driven e46 with modified suspension running the same wheel and tyre combo hes running and the experiences I had going to hard or too expensive can wear thin after a while. But getting something that you feel like that 3-4k youve just spent was defanitely worth it and continues to deliver and suprise you for years to come.

Things I wouldnt recommend for your daily.

Thicker uprated sway bars with 19inch wheels and 35/30 profile tires. Makes open road driving a challange on B-roads

Linear springs .. cant adsorb whooops or fast bumps in the road well (again partly a low profile tyre thing)

front strut braces, same thing as the sway bars .. the tower really need to move .. it effects steering a little to much and removes the small dead zone you have which means on long trips your always having to correct the steering wheel (gets old real quick)

Going anything harder the poly bushes .. makes for harsh ride .. cats eyes rattle your bones

Too much or two little camber outside of spec. Tire wear and can increase the darting feeling on corners.

Shocks wound up too hard compared to spring rates, will cause your bones to rattle for no reason.

Too soft, getting too much bounce going on, Anything more than one rebound for the shock is too much.

think that covers it ?

The V3's look the way to go for fast road occasional track work.

Shameless plug.

If you do go KW or want info and pricing contact Chris at Autoquip, I would be very surprised if you could buy a set of off the shelf KW's and have them shipped to NZ cheaper, he buys them from KW and does orders every couple of weeks so freight is included in the price.

I am currently working with him on getting a set of KW's built for my car and he has been very helpful, its also nice to know that if they have any issues he will sort them out.

[westy 614]

Cricky fellas, maybe the poor bloke just wants a nice set of Koni yellow or Bilstein sports and a bunch of new bushes?

[CSET 583]

Thanks very much all - I'm after all options and experience. There's a heap of info in this thread, I've definitely got my work cut out for me!

Tom, that's fantastic information thank you. The car is now on 83kms. I appreciate your opinion on the KW stuff too - interesting about the design. I'll do some more homework, read up a bit more on the AC Schnitzers and be back in touch!

Westy - thanks - the info in this thread is more than I could've hoped for! I initially figured I could just throw in a set of Koni's but I'd rather get info on the best options from those that know - it's too nice a car to cheap out, and I plan on keeping it for a fair while.

Apex - worthwhile opinion thank you - I always anticipated track days and driver training are on the cards, and I intend to keep to this. I've done a bit of both in the past, but in different cars. V3's sound good from what I've read - I initially had the brand confused with NZKW for some reason.

Hybrid - good to know what to avoid! Thanks! As it's a daily I'm not looking to go too firm.

Thanks again all, I think I'm set. Will update you with my decision.

[Neal 544]

This thread is worthy of a sticky for e46 M3 suspension options. Must be one of the best on the interweb I've come across

[kinetik 4]

This thread is worthy of a sticky for e46 M3 suspension options. Must be one of the best on the interweb I've come across

This one is also worth a read: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=180345