Grant 4 Report post Posted August 22, 2005 (edited) And Grant you are positively wrong about not voting for a small party. It may be a two horse race, but under MMP (especially when the polls are so close for the majority parties) a coalition is inevitable. So what you do is pick the majority party you tolerate the most, then look at its possible coalition partners, review their policies and vote for the party that is making a stand for things you place value in. That way you get the majority party you hate least and they get your minority party as a thorn in their side being nice and vocal for the policies that matter to you. It won't always work, but if enough people did that, we MAY get a semi-sensible government. Now I am not an MMP advocate - and I don't like the fragmentation of parties in parliament, but that is the system we are lumped with folks, so may as well work it to your benefit. I think my point here was missed.My point was that voting for a party who are never going to gain the required 5% of the party vote is a waste of time (hence voting for ACT). Sure they were a reasonably successful minor party once upon a time, but not any more. They were at their height when Roger Douglas was the brains behind the party (as he was a very skilled economist....even if I didn't really agree with his philosophy). Now they are a bunch of fledgling political individuals who form a single party in the loosest possible way. My point was, voting for a party that isn't going to get the required 5% is a waste of a vote under the current MMP system. Edited August 22, 2005 by Grant Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimocles 0 Report post Posted August 22, 2005 I'm voting with my wallet, as a single white employed male, its all I have. I'm voting national, but what I would like to see would be John Tamihere in national, sure he's a lying cheating bastard as well, but he's an entertaining lying cheating bastard. I loved that interview he did, even though it was all taken out of context and skewed and twisted. I have had dealings with the press before, having actually been at some locations Mururoa Attoll in 1995 being the most interesting, what actually happened and what was reported were worlds apart, so now I take every thing I read with a grain of salt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grant 4 Report post Posted August 22, 2005 (edited) And to end - my mother always told me never to discuss politics or religion as everyone has a different opinion and will not agree. Maybe I should have listened to her - only the flaming or lack thereof will let me decide.Ahh, there is nothing wrong with a bit of healthy debate, it is the whole point behind a democratic society, sure people have differing opinions, and that is great.Wouldn't it be a boring place if everyone all thought exactly the same thing...or worse, were unable to have an opinion, or be allowed to express their opinion. I'm probably in a moniority of my friends who will be voting Labour, and that is fine, they are no less my friends than they were before, and I would like to think that I am no less of a friend in their eyes. Also, should National win, I won't be going around feeling sorry for myself and thinking that everyone else is wrong, I will accept that the majority of people in NZ wanted to National to win, and carry on. Hell, who knows, I could be the one who is wrong about it all. Good thread though, lets hope it stays clear of personal attacks, and that the debate remains civil, and educated (as much as it can be). Cheers Grant Edited August 22, 2005 by Grant Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jazzbass 1 Report post Posted August 22, 2005 Grant - I take your points and would just like to expand on something which was implicit (I think) in your posts: If you don't vote - don't bitch! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carl 3 Report post Posted August 22, 2005 Exactly - civil debates are all good, i'm surprised too that this thread hasn't turned ugly, perhaps Bimmersport is moving into it's golden age? I'm voting against National but should they win I may still benefit through the tax cuts, which I might add won't kick in for a few years so those voting with their wallets don't hold your breath, but i'll get to hassle all those that voted for them - and I know who you are now muhahahaha Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
m325i 705 Report post Posted August 22, 2005 At the moment im liking Labours thing with no intrest on student loans so im in for that You will have more money if you voted National (assuming you earn $35k+). I'm working out the present value of the future tax cut i will get with National, then taking that money and betting at centrebet on a Helen win. That way if helen wins, i get 1.5x my national tax cut, if national win, for the first year i am the same as if labour won, year after i get paid. Genius. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jazzbass 1 Report post Posted August 22, 2005 LOL - that's brilliant, mate!! too funny... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
m325i 705 Report post Posted August 22, 2005 Also i find it funny thatthere are no greens here? The super clean burning efficiency of a 20 year old m20 engine not enough to entice greenies over here? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bravo 34 Report post Posted August 22, 2005 I think my point here was missed. Yeah it was - I get you now and agree wholeheartdly with that logic.I don't judge people on whom they vote for - I may disagree and try to sway them to my view, but they don't lose any face or standing with me based on their political view. An interesting thing happened the other day - I was in a car with four others attending a traffic safety course for work and the tutor asked who in the car was voting labour in a manner which suggested he was going to himself. Everyone in the car said no and looked at him expecting an explanation of why he was. He laughed and said - "funny that - I've pulled that one out every day this week and got the same response each time." Interesting in that he has got a 100% seat-of-the-pants poll against labour but telly polls are very close. Maybe the construction sector is anti labour??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jazzbass 1 Report post Posted August 22, 2005 BTW - why are we stopping Leighton Smith??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
m325i 705 Report post Posted August 23, 2005 BTW - why are we stopping Leighton Smith??? If you need to ask then you probably disagree. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jazzbass 1 Report post Posted August 23, 2005 LOL - to be honest - I don't even know who he is.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
m325i 705 Report post Posted August 23, 2005 Urbane and smooth, Leighton Smith delivers the most intelligent talkback radio around. His ease with developing in-depth, meaningful conversation brings an extra dimension to this predominantly talkback programme. Leighton's love of wine, food and music are also featured in this programme. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jazzbass 1 Report post Posted August 23, 2005 Ah - a radio announcer. I see. He has strange views??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
m325i 705 Report post Posted August 23, 2005 Ah - a radio announcer. I see. He has strange views??? Newstalk ZB 9am-12pm. Have a listen and make your mind up.You really need a good topic for his true self to come out. Drugs is a favourite, anything to do with 'morals' is also good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jazzbass 1 Report post Posted August 23, 2005 Ah - can't do that - I'm at work at that time. I'm quite happy to take your word for it, mate. STOP Leighton Smith! Hanging's too good for the bastard!! LOL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westy 614 Report post Posted August 23, 2005 (edited) Im a married, white,pretty conventional,male with no kids yet.We generate significant earnings between us and stand to gain considerably from Nationals tax cuts.Labours policys will probably hit us in the pocket with the inflationary impact their new working for families will impose.Labour ofers me nothing,but,I dont need ANYTHING. If gay & defacto want to be legally recognised as next of kin ,and prossies want to pay taxes then fine.I dont give a sh*t. I will vote Labour because they seem to be more concerned abuot making sure people are taken care of then bisines .I agree that bisiness(sp) is importent to the countries well being but not at the expence of people,children in particular. All this talk of tax cuts/rebates gives me the shits!National wont get theirs through with any partner bar Act and would need to borrow to aford it! Labour will fan inflation, and thereby interest rates!! Was there really anything wrong with surpluses?? PS.I hate E year too. Benevolent dictatorship anyone? Edit.Leigton Smith is the devils sporn! :puke: GO THE b! :mosh: Edited August 23, 2005 by DirtySix Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
petone 0 Report post Posted August 23, 2005 You will have more money if you voted National (assuming you earn $35k+). Dam, your probably right, my student laon interest will be around $40 per week straight out of uni, thats about what my tax cut will be? Never thought of it like that.Still, I just don't like national, particularly Brash. Don't like labour either but they still get my vote to keep national or whatever coalition they form with NZF out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shadowninja 0 Report post Posted August 23, 2005 The way I see it each person needs to vote for their own interests... (oops I guess that identified me as a right winger right away). I'm in the same basket as a bunch of others here, dual income no kids. Every Labour policy that hits the table appears to cost me something to benefit others. But the tax cut was really just a sweetner for me... I like the National stance on so many things like the reduction in PC bollocks, one rule for all, RMA overhaul. I'm really not sure why people distrust Don Brash so much. His long and impressive track record as the head of the Reserve Bank speaks volumes over Helen Clark's unenviable history in Parliament. I still have respect for someone who can change their mind, afterall the PM is there to represent NZ as well as his own views. If we wanted a pigheaded lunatic for a leader why not emmigrate to the USA?? I disagree with the minority vote stances above that the vote is wasted. Look at what happened with United party in the last election. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shadowninja 0 Report post Posted August 23, 2005 You will have more money if you voted National (assuming you earn $35k+). You'll have more money if you earn LESS than $35k too, but only if you don't have kids. National still has a policy for student loans, basically making them tax deductible (rewards those who work to pay off their loans!) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Spargo Report post Posted August 23, 2005 Time to throw a cat amongst the pigeons and say I'm a libretarian, shame they can never muster more than 5%. (see US elections for proof). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shadowninja 0 Report post Posted August 23, 2005 Clik, to save us the effort of finding their website (and spelling of their name) what do your lot stand for? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMW POWER 2 Report post Posted August 23, 2005 Government is so corrupt anyway, if all the MPs worked properly as a team they'd get twice as much done and come election year they'd all be like Government has always been corrupt. If all the parties worked together as one, then we would have an excellent government.De criminalising cannibis is just a big no-no unless you smoke pot. What a silly idea. Taxcuts, hell yeah! I don't get the hit myself, but my parents get hit very hard. And i know that tax is crazy. I think if people are prepared to work hard for their money, they should pay less tax, and get the dole bludgers off their asses and start working for their money. Even if its just a bit of work, they should contribute to the country like everyone else. The government can't bring the petrol prices down can they? Apparently its going to be over $2.00 a litre by christmas :thumbsdown: Its going to hit NZ hard. :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kiwi535 538 Report post Posted August 23, 2005 they are in the most part as described in the thread description - bribes they are just that bribes and should be viewed as such,and i beleive most people see them as such..... Taxes Emma are what build our roads pay our nurses and teachers.....If you are ever made unemployed,as iwas once with a pregnant wife who had just finished work to have our daughter,you may be glad a a couple of hundred or so a week where do you draw the line is the trick... Labour for me,the most rounded package.If only it were easy to get people to work together.Sheesh in some countries you can get shot cos you go to a different church......its all POLITICS folks.....see it in minature,join a car club committee...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EuroBoy 0 Report post Posted August 23, 2005 As long as the destiny church party arn't represented, im happy with how the country is run. I just dont agree with anything they do or say. its not a religious thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
