E36 M3 Evo needs a new clutch

[OP6 27]

I understand that the clutch on my 1996 M3 is on its way out.

Symptoms are:

Clutch engages only 2 or 3cms from the floor when cold.

Is noticably stiffer than my E36 328 and seems to get stiffer as it gets warm

Once the car is fully warmed up, ie oil is up around 80 to 90 degrees then the take up point of the cutch is at floor level.

The other night I had to do a fair bit of city driving and as time went on the clutch got lower and lower till it was below floor level and the gear change got harder and harder. When I got home I could not select reverse without a serious graunch.

Yes I shall be trying a pressure bleed in the weekend. If that fails then, a new clutch is the most probable solution.

I need to find out where I can buy the most suitable clutch.

The car is a daily city driver so it needs to be light and progressive.

I do not do track days.

[euroriffic 607]

Sounds more like a master/ slave cylinder is leaking and loosing pressure rather than the actual clutch. If it was that you'd have th complete opposite, later engagement at the top of the pedal and clutch slipping underload etc.

[Navin 180]

Yeah that sounds like you have a leaky master or slave cylinder

[hybrid 1043]

air bubbles.

[BM WORLD 1283]

i have a 3L m3 with similer issues

have bleed the clutch , replaced the rubber clutch line.

made small improvement

then swapped the slave cylinder , was a little bit better with the smaller bore cylinder .

then swapped the master cylinder,and still the same.

it drives ok , clutch is just quick off the floor , but i also think the duall mass flywheel is a bit gone ,

doesn't feel like its got full bite when at full rpm's

i think the gearbox will be coming off soon.

maybe the clutch pressure plate is stuffed or the clutch fork pivot point worn down which causes the clutch fork to go on a funny angle and not push the clutch pressure plate all the way in...

or the clutch fork is worn down as well .

have seen a few wear out and cause isssues.

see here for some details..

Edited August 7, 2013 by Brent HARTGE535i

[OP6 27]

I am definitely not well versed in the way of clutches or most things mechanical.

However, if there was air in the system would the clutch get more difficult to push down as the car warms up?

I have yet to drive the car and try pumping the clutch once the car is hot, to see if the take up point is higher than the floor, if this happens then I would assume that the master or slave is leaking. Is this a valid test?

Do these gearboxes have an inspection plate?

However I feel that Brent is probably right, hence the question:

Given the use of the car, what and where to buy the clutch that suits my needs most.

[richard 384]

I am definitely not well versed in the way of clutches or most things mechanical.

However, if there was air in the system would the clutch get more difficult to push down as the car warms up?

I have yet to drive the car and try pumping the clutch once the car is hot, to see if the take up point is higher than the floor, if this happens then I would assume that the master or slave is leaking. Is this a valid test?

Do these gearboxes have an inspection plate?

However I feel that Brent is probably right, hence the question:

Given the use of the car, what and where to buy the clutch that suits my needs most.

1 fine quiet road ,drop the clutch at 3500 -4000 rpms if the tyres lightup the clutch is OK , if that works then you need to look at what others have said....Re ---air bubble and the like......

[OP6 27]

1 fine quiet road ,drop the clutch at 3500 -4000 rpms if the tyres lightup the clutch is OK , if that works then you need to look at what others have said....Re ---air bubble and the like......

Dropped the cluch at 3000 and the tyres light up, no flare just bite and go, (should have tried the same in second.) Tried same but rolling at 3000rpm in 1st - tyres light up.

Would suggest another cause as you have suggested.

Cheers Don

[OP6 27]

[

I agree with the comments above, it may not be the clutch.

I had my clutch replaced and *still* have the same symptoms as you.

Well, thats 3 of us with much the same problem.

At this stage I am not desperate to get this sorted as I have several other cars and I took the M3 to Dunedin and back yesterday, so I know it is driveable and dependable.

My plan is to bleed, then replace slave and then replace Master before replacing the clutch.

I did have a thought that a longer fork may take the pedal off the floor!

[allan 295]

Don, is it a e36, e46 model? 3.0l s50 or 3.2 as others have given a number of possible issue have you checked the" lock valve" in the clutch line No 15 bmw fan if it is like the e46 it has something to do with making the clutch feel softer not really sure but have read these can fail coursing all sorts of symptoms.

[OP6 27]

Hi guys,

Dave, I had hoped that the problem would at worst, be a combination of old hoses, leaking slave and master cylinders. I was going to start with the easiest, a bleed, then move to the slave, master etc assuming the hoses to be in reasonable condition. I presume I can check the condition of the hoses by watching if they expand when the clutch is depressed.

My trip showed me that I could get into 1st as I am rolling to a stop. It will slide in at about walking pace. Reverse is selected by turning the engine off, into reverse, start engine. There is enough clutch "action" in mine to allow this, ie once into gear I can hold it with the pedal pushed into the carpet, to move off I can lift off about centimetre.

Allan, the car is a 1996 M3 Evo. I have never heard of the "lock valve" is this an E46 thing? - will have to look into this.

[gtstarped 73]

hey, this is a common e36 m3 problem, especially with high ks. search low engaging or clutch hose. i know Brents hasn't worked , but my s50b32 helped significantly with a new hose after being almost un-driveable, however like Brents the box needs to come off too. on my s50b30 however it completely fixed it from not being able to change gear when hot at all to having a massive amount of spring and engaging correctly. buy from ebay UK and when bleeding, bleed up a full bottle to get rid of all the air. the slave is a dumb device, either works or leaks and doesn't, don't waste your time unless leaking. master, had mine pulled out and tested was all good on one with no leaks and the other leaked but still worked even in that state. the master and slave will let you know dramatically so unless they do ignore, change hose, bleed up then see where you are. like Brent and i, hopefully its not the pivot pin in the box (assumption).

[gtstarped 73]

I'm not sure you can visually inspect them all whilst installed unless you remove the firewall which seems impractical... A more experienced mechanic might want to weigh in here though because I am honestly not sure.

there is only one soft hose to replace, the rest are metal. its the one from slave to mounting on the body. the evo supposedly does have a switch of some sort but my donor didn't. i think its a clutch switch of some sort.

[gtstarped 73]

Ahh, which one (number on the diagram)? I can count at least 7 flex/silicon hoses in those diagrams...

12 for 3.0 or 22/23 for 3.2. Its not that clear but thats the hose

[OP6 27]

hey, this is a common e36 m3 problem, especially with high ks. search low engaging or clutch hose. i know Brents hasn't worked , but my s50b32 helped significantly with a new hose after being almost un-driveable, however like Brents the box needs to come off too. on my s50b30 however it completely fixed it from not being able to change gear when hot at all to having a massive amount of spring and engaging correctly. buy from ebay UK and when bleeding, bleed up a full bottle to get rid of all the air. the slave is a dumb device, either works or leaks and doesn't, don't waste your time unless leaking. master, had mine pulled out and tested was all good on one with no leaks and the other leaked but still worked even in that state. the master and slave will let you know dramatically so unless they do ignore, change hose, bleed up then see where you are. like Brent and i, hopefully its not the pivot pin in the box (assumption).

Now I feel we are getting somewhere, what you are saying is making sense to me. Hope to be able get the car up in the air within the next week so that someone more experienced than me can have a look. Would appear from the realOem diagram and from what you have said, that there are two types of hose and best to have a look to see what is there, before buying a replacement.

Cheers for sharing that info.

[gtstarped 73]

Now I feel we are getting somewhere, what you are saying is making sense to me. Hope to be able get the car up in the air within the next week so that someone more experienced than me can have a look. Would appear from the realOem diagram and from what you have said, that there are two types of hose and best to have a look to see what is there, before buying a replacement.

Cheers for sharing that info.

i wish didn't know. i just change to braid for every e36 i have out now. don't expect to see anything obvious under there, were talking such a minimal increase in fluid capacity. just order one and lift once, otherwise it'll make a cheap job more than necessary. Tim

[5amchris 45]

i changed part 23 on my 3.2L M3 and it didn't really change much =(

[SRBMW 6]

Hey Don I think you might have called me about a replacement clutch and flywheel. Sorry I didn't have a chance to call you back as I was flat out when you called. I now have Hel braided lines for the E36 M3 Clutch and it states that it by passes the pressure valve and from what I've heard it seems to be a common issue with the E36. I've got these here for $70inc to BS guys. If you need one call me on 0800 55 6923 or [email protected]

thanks

Darren

[OP6 27]

Hey Don I think you might have called me about a replacement clutch and flywheel. Sorry I didn't have a chance to call you back as I was flat out when you called. I now have Hel braided lines for the E36 M3 Clutch and it states that it by passes the pressure valve and from what I've heard it seems to be a common issue with the E36. I've got these here for $70inc to BS guys. If you need one call me on 0800 55 6923 or [email protected]

thanks

Darren

Hi Darren, I did indeed call you re the clutch. I put the car up in the air and I do see the pressure valve but I cannot for life of me see what it is for. There is no cruise control and BMW do not usually have redundant / surplus to requirement parts on their cars.

Cheers Don

[5amchris 45]

I removed it when i changed my line, didnt change much like i already said.