Car Shuts Down fast and wont start!

[BM WORLD 1258]

all the m52 crank and cam sensors go like that ,just the heat and age cumbles all the insulation off the wires,

buy some new ones ,

[MoJoJoe 46]

Yea, I was thinking of ordering new cam sensor from milland. Is a crank sensor one needed? never had problem with it cranking, once the engine starts running it shouldnt cause a issue with it suddenly boggling and losing all power and stalling would it? I am thinking its the fuel pump and associated things.

how do you test the fuel pump and regulator? I will try to take out the ICV/Intake Control valve tomorrow and clean that.

[yng_750 247]

Crank position sensors are used while running also. Unplug them amd see what happens. Yes you should get a resistance like that with two pins. Question is does that circuit break at the same time the car dies. Electronics are common to fail at high temp and recover when they cool.

Intake leaks etc wont cause the car to shut down. They just ruin the idle etc.

That gasket stuff is just likely excess glue that squeezed out with instalation.

Replace cam and crank sensors. They will likely be issues in future by the looks anyway.

But as said unplug either one while running and see what happens

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[MoJoJoe 46]

I think you are right, its pobably electronics overheating and shuting down. I will replace those 2 sensors, just as preventive maintenence.

ps: one question, you know how when you crank the motor the wire sends the power to run the starter motor? does the crank sensor depend and power from that? after the car starts, power to that wire should not be required, should it? Untill I stop and want to crank again? I have a anti hijack kill switch type security system on it which upon being touch activated powers a relay to keep the circuit closed for half a min, which is enough for the car to be cranked and started. I dont think it could be the problem as the car has run great all these dayas with it, I also have a hunch, maybe if its not the sensors then its the oil pump or regulator at fault. So I asked someone here for a hand held scanner to see if it can catch any fault codes, then I will buy the parts next week.

if you guys have any other suggestions for me to look while my hands are dirty over the weekend, please let me know

I was also thinking any O2 sensors but that doesn't make sense.... currently wanting to test the fuel pump.

Edited March 28, 2014 by MoJoJoe

[Phil-540i 166]

The bourbon glasses are maybe slightly on, but I've heard a wild rumour that on the 11th day God made this thing called a NON-VANOUS 540I BMW (ok, he messed round for a few days creating women, Fords, Holdens, & 3 series / 6 cylinder BMW's......... ) that in perspective, goes like a cut-cat & does'nt give too much brain-damage (unlike what he'd been up to on previous days.............)

Was sinking coupla amber Fanta's with The Stig the other night, contemplating the current northern issue, & she reckoned the 328 is much like the 318 ya had, only it's got 1000 more potential issues..........

Hang in there dude - you'll beat it yet..............

[yng_750 247]

The crank position sensor has nothing to do with the starter circuits. It along woth cam sensor tell the compter when to fire the coils. When they die the computer doesnt think the.motor.is turning over. I hate alarms for this reason. If possible bin it.

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[MoJoJoe 46]

Forgot to mention, I have a small oil leak somewhere, eagle had a peep too, its nothing serious and from the looks of the stains its my valve cover or the oil filter housing(if not both), I know its common for these engines to be a bit wet, so I didnt bother much. I wonder if I should have changed that too? Could be some oil going into the cylinders? Its on my to do list once I get the scanner and scan the car, for the fault codes. then I will get some degreaser to clean the engine/bay and get the parts and everything and start the repair process all at once and finish it all over the week/weekend.

Still need a way to test the fuel pressure and fuel pump. I am afraid even after the faul code scanner, they may end up being the culprits after I replace the sensors.

edit: this was a very good read. http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1690962-Ever-wonder-what-all-those-sensors-actually-do - tells you what the sensors and everything does and what happens when they fail. definitely changing the cam position sensor and crank sensor, these two are masters of the stalling and cranking syndrom. then its the fuel pump and fuel regulator. but will wait till I actually have the code reader at hand next week hopefully if everything works out good.

Edited March 28, 2014 by MoJoJoe

[MoJoJoe 46]

To do on my list now

Cam Position Sensor

Crankshaft Position Sensor

Valve Cover Gasket

Oil Filter Rings & Gaskets(I may leave this for later)

Hopefully this will do my job, otherwise I might be looking at additional Fuel Pump and Fuel Pump Regulator.

Will let your guys know once I cab oull out some codes.

PS: is it possible for the Crank and Cam sensors to malfunction sometimes and not othertimes? I am debating if its the Sensors or the Fuel Pump / Regulator aswell. See I pulled the Fuel pump relay and i couldnt replicate the issue the way it stopped like boggling down. Pulling the relay causes it to die peacefully, but that day it keps shaking and make choking noises as if there is something stuck in the exhaust or intake and boggling down forcing the rpm down with it. So I am hoping its not the fuel pump thats getting hot and becomes inoperable, but hopefully the code reader can pull out some codes and point me to the right direction.

Edited March 28, 2014 by MoJoJoe

[hybrid 1039]

Why ?? Our 3 scanners do

BMW Scanner Glenn .. its a brand of product thats named that. I dont mean a BMW specific scanners in general

[yng_750 247]

Yes cam sensors etc can come and go.

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[MoJoJoe 46]

anybody here got a fuel pressure tester? you know those little things with a dial that tests the PSI while the engine is running? I am thinking to test my fuel pump and regulator pressure.

Yes cam sensors etc can come and go.

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Yea really leaning on the sensors, the car shows the symptoms of "bad sensors" eg. car will stall if coming to a light or slows down from a fast speed. I think if my fuel pump was bad it would do so while covering long 100 - 200 km distances and not short 5 km distances.

Will the codes get wiped off if I unplugged the battery? M3AN seems to be willing to lend me his code reader for a couple of weeks while I test things out(I am paying him a deposit which he will refund once I return it). I am hoping it will show up on it.

PS:

Manifold rubber gasket ring is torn,

Did a closer inspection on the manifold this morning closely, that was definitely the red gasket rings you have on the 6 manifold intakes. Should I replace it now with my M50 manifold kit since I have all the parts at hand? I guess would be a nice project over the weekend and would give me the chance to take out the ICV(intake control valve), clean it up and check the other vaccume lines.

[yng_750 247]

Codes wont be wiped until a scanner wipes them

Older cars may have dozens of codes stored that look bad so you may need to clear the odes then drive it and see what comes back up

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[Young Thrash Driver 1020]

I hate to say it Mojo but you should have bought my car but you musn't listen to Blue, he's just an old fogey who thinks his dinosaur is the duck's whatsits. Such anti-3 series behaviour is disgraceful, I hope his fuel tank develops a big(ger) hole!

[MoJoJoe 46]

I "think" I found the culprit.

I took out and tested the crankshaft sensor today, it was right underneath the lower radiator hose. I tested it but didnt get any resistence / mesurements from it, i even cut the wires off to mesure it but still no numbers. it also had the craking and flaking pvc insulation issue on the wires where they were touching each other. I think its pretty much dead. But with that sensor dead can the car still crank and run for hundreads of kilometers untill it starts behaving like that one day? Anyway, I will hopefully get the code reader from M3AN in the next few days and confrim the codes I read and post back.

PS: How do You take the thing off?? Biggest issue I had was taking it out of the car, it was stuck between the vanos housing. Do I have to remove the vanos housing bolts to put a new one in? since it goes through the vanos housing and there is just not enough clearence to remove it. I had to cut and trim the connector to make it come through.

[yng_750 247]

Usually one bolt and a spacer washer. But my experiance is on a different bmw engine. Should be a guide on google or youtube

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[MoJoJoe 46]

No no I am not talking about the plastic body that hides the wire behind the tstat/water pump housing away from the fan. I am talking about taking out the sensor itself. once I have it unplugged and unbolted its stuck between the vanos housing. I had to cut and trim it.

google didn't turn much up, I will look on youtube and post back.

edit...okay found this on Google. apparently you have to remove that metal bracket on the the front of the engine and vanos

The whole sensor should then pull free however my cable was attached by cable tie to the Cam sensor cable. I also had to loosen a bracket at on the front of the engine where the cable went behind and the gap was to small to pull the plug through.

this is a nice DIY (but without any pictures)

http://www.bmwland.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=37546

Edited March 30, 2014 by MoJoJoe

[Phil-540i 166]

I hate to say it Mojo but you should have bought my car but you musn't listen to Blue, he's just an old fogey who thinks his dinosaur is the duck's whatsits. Such anti-3 series behaviour is disgraceful, I hope his fuel tank develops a big(ger) hole!

Awww, that's rough - I'm not THAT old ae....................

And the sound of it is well worth every single cent of fuel it uses...........

Edited March 30, 2014 by Blue-540i

[MoJoJoe 46]

Good news guys, M3AN sent the Code Reader, should have it by tomorrow, though I will be out till the afternoon, should still be able to pull out some codes. . I have it all planned out. after i put in the sensors I will be addressing the oil leaks on the gasket and oil filter housing. the rocker cover seems to be the main culprit of the leak but I can see some oil near the oil filter, power steering and perhaps a bit near the dip stick. hopefully not too hard of a repair once I have the gaskets, orings and seals. should be do able in a day (i hope)

Awww, that's rough - I'm not THAT old ae....................

And the sound of it is well worth every single cent of fuel it uses...........

lies, all big fat lies. 11 hr journey , he and she escaping out to the woods..

nope, doesn't look a hair older than 63. i see now that viagra can do wonders.

[MISS BM 712]

Probably way to late to input anything helpful - but the situation, to an extent, sounded very familiar to what happened to my 540.. Stalled, Started then stalled a few more times, then dead. Waited the next morning and was able to start again and get it to the pros..

Cam Sensor + Fuel Pump and that sorted the issue. Not the same engine and so on, and way to late, but go for those two things I would suggest...

Scanner should point you in the right direction to a solid solution.

[MoJoJoe 46]

Thanks, but how did you know it was the fuel pump? Code scanners cant tell that can it? So I am guessing you changed it as preventive maintenance? I really hope my fuel pump isn't dead. I doubt it because I tested the 2 sensors and the crank sensor turned out to be dead. And if it was the fuel pump it would have issues when its going on for hours and hot? Not when its slowing down? But certainly doing some reading and searching on google and online turned out that the 3 culprits are the cam sensor, crank sensor or the fuel pump/regulator.

My explanation after reading a lot of topics is that if your Crank and Cam sensors aren't working properly this is the problem you run into. So I guess it was on its way out or that the fact that it would heat up and stop working and wont let the car crank until it cooled down. So what would happen in the freeway was that the air and clutch fan would cool it. but driving below the 20kmh at the city traffic would soon cause the sensor to overheat and work poorly/not at all, causing my car to stall. I think my cam sensor is good but I am replacing it anyway as preventive maintenance and the fact that it may be next since the other one kind of failed.

Wish me your best, I plan on fixing up the car by this time next week.

Edited March 31, 2014 by MoJoJoe

[MISS BM 712]

Thanks, but how did you know it was the fuel pump? Code scanners cant tell that can it? So I am guessing you changed it as preventive maintenance? I really hope my fuel pump isn't dead. I doubt it because I tested the 2 sensors and the crank sensor turned out to be dead. And if it was the fuel pump it would have issues when its going on for hours and hot? Not when its slowing down? But certainly doing some reading and searching on google and online turned out that the 3 culprits are the cam sensor, crank sensor or the fuel pump/regulator.

My explanation after reading a lot of topics is that if your Crank and Cam sensors aren't working properly this is the problem you run into. So I guess it was on its way out or that the fact that it would heat up and stop working and wont let the car crank until it cooled down. So what would happen in the freeway was that the air and clutch fan would cool it. but driving below the 20kmh at the city traffic would soon cause the sensor to overheat and work poorly/not at all, causing my car to stall. I think my cam sensor is good but I am replacing it anyway as preventive maintenance and the fact that it may be next since the other one kind of failed.

Wish me your best, I plan on fixing up the car by this time next week.

Ray from Hellbm spent a lot of time reading into the car, and the correlations and affects certain parts have etc, plus, I have had a Fuel Pump from the E38 test perfectly on the work bench, but not at all in the car (so was on the go ahead to replace anyway) It was idling rough, and we did one step at a time, so Cam Sensor, check, Fuel Pump, Check, and then the car ran like a dream, so just those two simple things from spending a bit of time reading into the connections and affects one part has on another, sorted the entire issue

I do wish you luck! I remember how I felt when my 'new' car stalled the first night I bought her.. Guttering! But yes, sensors are the first place to go too, see how it runs from there, and keep us updated for sure.

[hotwire 352]

F##k, the popcorn was certainly needed here.

Not meaning to be nasty, infact far from it, but you completely contradict yourself during this thread.

You respond to me saying you have a mechanical/electrical knowledge, (reading through the thread I say - yea right!) then in the next breath asking every conceivable question of issues, test procedures, readings etc. Also most of these completely off topic to the fault you have

You have one driving issue but intend replacing multiple components as a precaution - this is hardly an economical approach! And, not what any decent mechanic/auto sparky will do...

Reading through is thread, the questions you ask, tell me you have a very limited understanding of the mechanics & engine management system.

Mechanics/Sparkys with correct equipment can easily diagnose these systems/faults - much simpler cheaper than your "replace everything" approach.

I am always happy to help/advise on here where I can, but I draw the line at trying to help someone with no knowledge/understanding or equipment to diagnose - that is why people bring cars to our work...

Footnote: A scanner is only good for someone with a brain - knowledge/understanding of what they are checking - I have seen so many times where MAF, CAS, O2 ABS etc sensors have been replaced after throwing codes, only for the person to find a new unit has done the same - reacting to another fault causing the sensor outside its parameters. Then car bought to us to fix the actual problem

It may well be a CAS fault, but then again...

[yng_750 247]

Some people arent born with bmw knowledge. And im sure you can have great mechanical and electrical knowledge and not already know the ins and outs of bmws. I sure didnt when i started.

As you say he is asking questions and isnt that how we all learn.

He might not have known how bmw code systems and cam sensors work at the start of this thread but im sure he will know by the end.

Amberleigh is the same. Read her threads and the knowledge grows with every page. And now she is sharing what she has learnt.

Snarky comments dont help people especially when they then feel.unwelcome to come on here next time, imo.

And aside from not towing the car a couple of hundred kms to auckland to pay someone big money to fix it id say he has done everything pretty well with whats available.

[Phil-540i 166]

Ditto what he ^^^^^^^ reckons...........

[MISS BM 712]

Ray from Hellbm spent a lot of time reading into the car, and the correlations and affects certain parts have etc, plus, I have had a Fuel Pump from the E38 test perfectly on the work bench, but not at all in the car (so was on the go ahead to replace anyway) It was idling rough, and we did one step at a time, so Cam Sensor, check, Fuel Pump, Check, and then the car ran like a dream, so just those two simple things from spending a bit of time reading into the connections and affects one part has on another, sorted the entire issue

I do wish you luck! I remember how I felt when my 'new' car stalled the first night I bought her.. Guttering! But yes, sensors are the first place to go too, see how it runs from there, and keep us updated for sure. 

Edit: My car also only stalled once it hit less than 50ks.. It stalled in my driveway the first time

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