1993 530i V8 5 speed Manual M60b40 swap

[kiwi328i 118]

Hi All,

I am going to, well like the title says, pull the M60b30 out and drop in a M60b40. I have googled my little digits off, and it's not that uncommon, well it's pretty uncommon here only because we don't have a lot of 5 speed 3 litre v8's around. Some swaps have been good, some not so good, none of them cheap. I want to keep my 5 speed manual, so I have a few issues there. Many have done all sorts of things with flywheels, pressure plates and clutches, mine will be no different I guess. However I am wanting to get a custom flywheel made as I have found that in theory at least it may be cheaper, than going aftermarket.

Oh for those that don't know, the reason I am changing the flywheel at all, it that the B30 has done over 300k, I am guessing that the flywheel has done its dash, I don't hate the oem dualmass, but it is going to go. I have heard the B30 stuff wont last long behind the B40, and even if it does, wear will be accelerated due mainly to the increase in torque so for some assurance I may as well change it now. There are no aftermarket B30 clutches, clutch kits etc. So I am working on a cunning plan, gleaned from many hours on the internet. To be fair the engine has yet to be pulled, and only then will I really know what I am up against.

The reason for this thread is that I have not been totally happy with the info I have seen thus far. It's like no one has been really happy with whatever action they have taken, in terms of really nutting out what you need, don't need and should not do. Most of the info is from the UK where they like to transplant the v8 5 speeds into the E30, which is even more work than what I am hopping to do that's for sure.

It may help someone in future.

I will update this as best I can

[Ahmedsinc 414]

Get in touch with Brent, he's been through this before. Good luck, will be looking forward to the finished product

[BM WORLD 1286]

yes call me if you want

021433600

been through this a few times etc

or come out and see me etc

bm world ltd

papakura

[kiwi328i 118]

Hey thanks for the support. It will be interesting to see where all the headaches will be for this project.

Well I started today. It took me ages to pull the headlights, headlight surrounds, grille and bonnet off. In the time it took me to take off the bonnet, I could have gutted an entire Corolla. Took longer again to get the front bumper off. Freakin heavy as it has the washer unit for the headlights. I don't think I will be hooking that back up. Not much use in Auckland, it just doesn't really get cold enough to warrant it. And its heavy and way out in the front where you don't want all the weight. Some may say it looks classy, and I guess it was back then...

To be fair, I would have achieved more with another pair of hands. The weather was nice today so I wasn't going to spends hours on it, that was enough for today. I am still wondering whether it is worth removing the entire front? If I leave the transmission in place, it might be better in terms of swinging the B40 in?

Ideas?

The beginning

And the end of day one

and the other side.

[BM WORLD 1286]

^{haha nice work}

^{i remember doing v8 swaps}

^{have done one by dropping it in the the top with the auto gearbox attached}

^{was a pig of a job}

^{the other one was done through the top with box off 1st}

^{last one was done by lowering the subframe etc}

[mynbmr 225]

http://bimmersport.co.nz/forums/uploads/monthly_08_2008/post-3075-1219137273.jpg

http://bimmersport.co.nz/forums/uploads/monthly_08_2008/post-3075-1219137295.jpg

http://bimmersport.co.nz/forums/uploads/monthly_08_2008/post-3075-1219137312.jpg

I took the whole front off

[kiwi328i 118]

Holy crap that's a nice engine putterinnathing.

Just wait till you see the photos of the thing that I am going to use. ha. The guy next door John commented on the size of the engine. He deals with big block Chevs 454's and the like and thought this little 3 litre was just a beast...well it is externally I guess. I wish it was the other way around.

Brent, from your pictures I have to take the exhaust manifolds off, on both motors. Painful. I think I am going to pull the front off, much better access, cause I will be spewing if I damage it trying to shoehorn this thing in.

Cheers!

[mynbmr 225]

When I puled out the motor and gearbox of the Isuzu I had an electric winch on my balcony

and used the remote to control the winch wile I was guiding the motor

[Ahmedsinc 414]

When I puled out the motor and gearbox of the Isuzu I had an electric winch on my balcony

and used the remote to control the winch wile I was guiding the motor

Ha, awesome!

[kiwi328i 118]

Second half day on the car.

Got both valve covers off, cleaned them petrol, I am going to take them to the powder coaters at some stage. Took off most of the harness. Radiator out. I am going to leave the front on now. It's just more shite to take off and put back on. Be different if I had a full garage to just leave it all over the place but as I am doing it up my brothers driveway I cant make too much of a mess.

So here it is now. Slowly but surely, this project is going to take forever.

[kiwi328i 118]

So,

My brother managed to pull the...simply gigantic (for 3 litres) motor out and on to the ground. Cool. Time to take off the pressure plate. Faarrkkk, why you can't just pull things apart without breaking just does ya head in. 4 hex head bolts, first one burrs instantly, should've cracked it, but the air gun just f'ed it, so the next one, hammer job then quick crak, lovely, third one the same came out nicely fourth one was also a pig. Out comes the mig, and we mig'ed a 13mm bolt to the b'stard bolts and did it that way, not pretty, actually quite rangi but bloody effective. It's no wonder they tell you to get new bolts for this and that...they just should have said."Bmw disclaimer, we use crap designs for really important bolts that will do your head in, so please replace all of the sh*t bolts that we use with much better engineered bolts, as we used all of our R@D budget on making the worlds biggest 3 litre V8"

But really it was Bmw's way of warming me up to remove the flywheel....faaaarrrkkkkkk. Just another very good reason to ditch the dual mass make like an anchor flywheel. Those bolts WILL be replaced by bolts the rest of the world is familiar with. As the custom flywheel has to be recessed to accommodate the sprung hub, I will ensure bolt heads are on the engineers draft when he designs the ruddy thing.

As it stands I will have another crack at the flywheel, if it bites me its crank out baby!

[Eagle 1678]

Has the clutch ever been replaced?

[kiwi328i 118]

There are signs that the motor has been out.

The clutch disc wasn't down to the rivets and it's done over 300k. The pressure plate had a 98 date on it, so I am guessing that's been replaced at least, but it must have, even driving like Miss Daisy, you couldn't cover that many k's on the original clutch.

We broke half of the exhaust bolts and some of those were not bmw issue so yeah I think its been done. The flywheel looks like the face would need to be cleaned up if ever it got used again, with hot spots all over, not too bad, and not from me, so they are old.

[kiwi328i 118]

So I listened to you guys and got stuck into the flywheel bolts, would have been easier with another person, but hey, I cracked 8 of them and of course one burred and you only need one to keep you from getting it off. Those T55's are an out and out daft idea.

A trip to Mitre10, some colbolt HSS drill bits and some cutting oil, a lot of swearing followed. And wallah. I have the flywheel off. I now know why they call them anchors. I took the auto one off the M60b40 which was thinner and its flex plate and I will hand that in to the engineer as well, as that might be more useful in machining a new flywheel.

Of all the seals I bought I forgot the waterpump one so another order to pelican parts and some other bits, but I have some time whilst the new flywheel is getting machined up anyway. I will need some new flywheel bolts, and I will go down to the lovely blokes at Waitemata Hydraulics for something appropriate, and get some recommendations from the engineer too I guess.

So the next step is taking the old flywheel, pressure plate and clutch disc to the engineer, with the new E36 96-97 Pressure plate, E34 M5 sprung hub clutch disc and get him to fabricate a suitable flywheel so that the stacked height is the same. He will be using the original ring gear. Well that's the theory...

[kiwi328i 118]

What a crap month of rain.

So what have I done...

Well I have replaced the following

valley pan gasket, homemade...er yeah I hope it holds up to, have a look at the images of yet another valley pan bolt head breaks, well 3 of them, welded 2 bigger heads, and the third...had to be drilled.

Same with the waterpump, had to drill that out as well, painful. But all gaskets replaced all O-rings, all gaskets. Makes me think cast iron is better when things break.

The oil level unit is different, so I used the 530i one that comes from the oil pan with the pan bolt on the side, no pan gasket, took the unit and put it on the 540i one with centralized oil pan bolt and connected gasket for the oil level unit, different heights apparently, so I might have to take it off and check to see if it doesn't hit anything internally.

My original left engine mount was starting to crack, the donor had a good one, so that's moved over. I have mixed and matched and used the 530i stuff where possible.

It's all done really.

I had a few issues with the bloke machining the new flywheel...after 2 weeks of nothing he tells me he cannot use the ring gear as its machined...yeah he's that awesome. Anyway I have got him back on track. I told him to fabricate something to the front of the auto flexplate ring gear I also gave him, I will do the rest, fingers crossed he knows what he is doing.

[Michael. 2313]

Goodness me, a lot of work there for such finicky problems!

[qube 3570]

Nice hamann wheels u got there

[sonic_attack 89]

Seems absurd BMW would build a 3 liter V8 when they'd already done pretty well producing 3.5 liter sixes... I'll assume there's a valid reason google will throw up at me when I go look.

Incredible to see what the liter of displacement does in basically the same container when comparing power stats though. You'll be well prepped when you get bored of it and an S62B50 turns up..

[kiwi328i 118]

OK.

So after a few emails and text messages with the engineer, I was ready to just go buy that lovely looking TTV racing all steel single mass flywheel from the U.K. Anyway, after basically telling the bloke what I needed, and he telling me every other option bar the easiest one , I said look, use the steel machined ring gear from the Auto I provided. It will be oem strength and finish, proven and it will fit. Add whatever blank bit of steel, with the appropriate dowels and machine the flippin thing to suit the E36 M3 97+ pressure plate and E34 M5 Clutch disk. How hard can it be? (not that anyone I have seen anywhere in google land has done it) So I wait a few days thinking, o.k, I am either going to get a nice surprise, or a fricken P.O.S. Well I picked it up, and low and behold, it is as ordered. I think he did a great job. The brilliant thing about it all is that, the easiest option was the best. He was going to buy a suitable ring gear then blah blah blah, which was let's say cost prohibitive. Then he was just going to machine the whole thing which was even worse! Not only is this easier, if it all goes pear shaped I can get Auto ring gear's easy, having it in 2 parts means I could machine another flywheel to suit another clutch kit down the track (Cause I love this sh*t) Well I guess the proof will happen when its in and running...

I thought it might be wise to take some images and weigh the thing, and see how it shaped up.

The original 530i sachs pressure plate at 5.5kg

The new E36 M3 97+ sachs pressure plate at 4.7kg (they look all but identical)

New pressure plate and Clutch disk at 6.2kg

Old pressure plate and clutch disk at 6.6kg

Old original dual mass flywheel at 12.5kg

New custom flywheel and old Auto M60B40 ring gear at 10.7kg

Old M60B40 auto ring gear (from donor motor sans flex plate) and new machined flywheel that fits like a hubcentric hub (and to think I didn't even have to tell the engineer that either!)

A great image of the new flywheel, notice the huge recess, to fit the sprung hub side of the clutch disk...well in theory the bloody thing better work!

I didn't bother to bang the pressure plates down and pull out the vernier calipers but the stack heights look pretty close, and I did get that point across to the engineer, so heres hoping I don't have to measure anything.

I was thinking about getting it all balanced, but think nah, it should be good to go, I don't want to be too rangi...but lets face it, sometimes the moths that fly out of my wallet are trying in vain to tell me something?

Oh, so my maths tells me, the old reciprocal mass comes to 19.1kg, the new at 16.9kg. A miniscule 2.2kg saving, not that weight savings was the priority, strength and longevity was, the weight loss is just an added bonus, it was also cheaper than any of the aftermarket flywheels, and the clutch disk and pressure plate were below the new costs of the originals, so wins all around. The car has done over 300k so the flywheel life left was mmmm anyway, the 4.0 was just going to get it to the grave a little bit quicker. It was just an added insurance really doing all of this. I could really have just changed the oem clutch disk. But on that note I could have just left the 3.0l in there too, and who the heck would support me on that one on this forum?ha.

[BM WORLD 1286]

nice , what did that lot cost if you dont mind me asking .

looks good

[kiwi328i 118]

Hey Brent,

I noticed you replied and thought crap, I have missed something. Well I may have, but I digress. Well I am guessing you are asking about the cost of the custom flywheel.?

$520.00nzd. Of all of the other options, I think I went the right way about it.

In theory it should work. If it looked a bit dicey you would have mentioned something. Ahh it's all fun and games, when you are trying to do something no one has tried, and hopefully it doesn't end in tears.

[kingkarl 136]

Great updates Lionel.

keep em coming

[westy 614]

Looks real similar to what Darren was doing.

[BM WORLD 1286]

Hey Brent,

I noticed you replied and thought crap, I have missed something. Well I may have, but I digress. Well I am guessing you are asking about the cost of the custom flywheel.?

$520.00nzd. Of all of the other options, I think I went the right way about it.

In theory it should work. If it looked a bit dicey you would have mentioned something. Ahh it's all fun and games, when you are trying to do something no one has tried, and hopefully it doesn't end in tears.

that sounds pretty good , have seen similer things done before.

are you getting the m3 pressure plate ramped up?? and better carbon kevlar material fitted to the clutch disc as well??

[kiwi328i 118]

Ramped up? What's ramped up? What the heck have I missed now?

Considering the amount of variables, I have gone bog standard on both the clutch disc and pressure plate, if there is such a thing on this project. It's not like they are supposed to be in this car in the first place, but considering its a bog standard M60B40, both the M3 p.p and the M5 clutch disk should suffice. From what I could see the M3 pressure plate looks almost like the original p.p, which I guess shouldn't be too surprising, as they are both 3litres odd.