E34 engine swap LVV Cert.

[T.N.R 33]

I'm doing a straight forward M50 -> M52 swap on my NZ new E34, no fabrication or modification of any mounts or body. For the certification process it says on lvvta's website (an example cost break down for engine conversion) they check the EGE (exhaust gas emissions). I wanted to know if they do this for all engine swaps.

I'm a little confused about this because my car is a 1995 E34 and on the spec sheet it says:

"Entfall Katalysator - without catalytic converter"

Does this mean they wouldn't care about the emissions or I would have to install cat's even though the car originally didn't have them?

Has anyone else done a similar swap and had problems with exhaust emissions?

Thanks.

[Young Thrash Driver 1020]

They probably just want to check the EGR hasn't been blanked off... not applicable in your case. That, or it's just a exhaust gas test.

Best you check with a cert issuer!

[T.N.R 33]

I hope its something simple like that. I'll make sure to talk to some certifier before booking in a time.

Thanks for the reply.

[Michael. 2313]

I recall, if they weren't fitted then it doesn't apply. Best to check the current LVV page on cats & emissions though.

That said, with engine conversions they can get a little OCD... when I cert'ed my 1UZ V8 in the E36 the guy didn't bother as it had new cats and was running the stock computer tune so he said it would be running pretty cleanly.

[T.N.R 33]

I know no catalyst is pretty bad for the environment, and to be honest I wouldn't mind retrofitting a high flow one in simply because with my old engine the car felt like it was giving you instant lung cancer (was not modified in anyway by me or P.O).

Its just that I wanted to know before hand because they aren't cheap.

Thanks for the input.

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

I cant remember if it was because of the year of the body or the year of the engine.

But I needed to install cats in my M52B28 E30, was a 1990 E30 320i (so older).

All M52B28 equipped cars had cats from new.

just google, all the info is there. old links are fine for this sort of thing, requirements never go "backwards"

you will need driveshaft hoops too

[T.N.R 33]

Thanks Andy for that info, it was helpful in that I found what keyword to search for. I just read the standard right now and it says:

"A modified production low volume vehicle that has undergone an engine

conversion, is not required to be retro‐fitted with one or more catalytic

converters, if the vehicle was not originally fitted with catalytic converters by the

vehicle manufacturer."

However, there is a note giving the reason for this. To summarize it basically says if it didn't come with cats it doesn't need them because its likely that there isn't enough safe space (taking heat into consideration). However I'm pretty sure the E34 has the space, its just that for some reason they didn't have them on some models/markets.

I wonder if they will pickup on this during the inspection and say that the exemption doesn't apply in my case? whatever, I'll find out sooner or later.

Also regarding the drive shaft hoop, the standard says:

"A drive‐shaft safety‐loop must be fitted to a low volume vehicle with an open drive‐line...(if)... vehicle has had an engine conversion that has resulted in a significant increase in power or torque"

Goes on to say:

"A significant increase in power or torque in a low volume vehicle is considered to be over 50% of the vehicle’s factory power output."

As far as I know:

M50B20TU: 150Hp, 190Nm

M52B28: 190Hp, 280Nm

Which is below the 50% increase threshold for both power and torque increase. I hope this is correct becsue I dont want to mess around with adding a hoop (I know it shouldn't be a major issue but still).

Edited February 23, 2015 by T.N.R

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

Thanks Andy for that info, didn't know about the drive shaft hoop. I just read the standard right now and it says:

"A modified production low volume vehicle that has undergone an engine

conversion, is not required to be retro‐fitted with one or more catalytic

converters, if the vehicle was not originally fitted with catalytic converters by the

vehicle manufacturer."

However, there is a note giving the reason for this. To summarize it basically says if it didn't come with cats it doesn't need them because its likely that there isn't enough safe space (taking heat into consideration). However I'm pretty sure the E34 has the space, its just that for some reason they didn't have them on some models/markets.

I wonder if they will pickup on this during the inspection and say that the exemption doesn't apply in my case? whatever, I'll find out sooner or later.

Might as well put them in. there is definately room in an E34 for cats, and most markets did have them. some early NZ examples didnt because of the leaded fuel that was in use at the time. the last ones do have cats

[T.N.R 33]

Yeah, will maybe try to find some from a 525i as a temporary solution. Appreciate the help from everyone.

[polley 916]

What the rules say and what the cert issuer says are two different things. (ie, you could prob get away without having cats). Talk to your cert guy.

[T.N.R 33]

I kind of got that impression. Will do.

[allan 295]

Having a chat with your certifier can save you a lot of heart ache and dollars. Also it is not only the HP increase that will catch you but the fact that your vehicle had a particular engine type etc related to that chassis number and you are changing it as I found out when I did my upgrade. As for the drive shaft hoops you may be lucky you may not will depend again on what your cert man has to say. Best of luck it's a bit of a mine field from what the regs say and what certifiers will allow just get in touch with who every you decide to use and have a chat.

[CamB 48]

The way I understand it is that if the car didn't have a cat, it doesn't need one. It shouldn't matter if you have room. Although the I agree you should confirm with the certifier. Also, I had a look at the standard and it's quite ambiguous if first reg was prior to 2010 (regardless of whether it had cats).

Looking at your original post, you are also worried about an exhaust gas test - I think you need that anyway, although should pass easily (assuming the engine is hooked up right).

Perhaps some scope for debate if the new engine and its ECU are expecting 2 oxygen sensors and (therefore) a cat. 2.4(1) suggests you need to keep all the electronics, although requiring a 2nd o2 sensor and getting an engine check light (for no cat) would be entirely inconsistent with permitting the removal of a cat for the same engine.

Edited February 24, 2015 by CamB