Haitoman 110 Report post Posted May 11, 2015 I filled my E46 M3 with Challenge 95 fuel the other day. I don't know if it's just my imagination but it seems far more responsive than the mainstream suppliers. It genuinely feels like it wants to go. Anyone else found this? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattA 164 Report post Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) Shouldn't make any difference, Chevron NZ supply all Caltex, Challenge and Farmlands outlets. BP do GAS Alley. Mobil do Waitomo Oil, North Fuel and South Fuel. Z purchase on the open market now they are released from the Royal Dutch Shell umbrella. Gull are independent but linked with Australian refineries (ethanol blending). Though if you've ever been to a bulk fuel facility you'll notice all brands load from the same tanker terminal (ship) and it has always been rumored that the tank farms are linked. A significant volume of NZ fuel is processed at Marsden Point, around 75% of our diesel and half our petrol. Its share holders include Mobil, Shell, Chevron and BP. Its nearly all piped to Wiri and distributed from there. Brand cross-contamination almost guaranteed. Edited May 12, 2015 by MattA 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lord_jagganath 421 Report post Posted May 12, 2015 Everyone has their own special blend of additives though. That much is true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kingkarl 136 Report post Posted May 12, 2015 Everyone has their own special blend of additives bullshit though. That much is true. fixed 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M5V8 337 Report post Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) Challenge buy in. There's no real way to work out whom produced it. Even the big players allow their competition to resupply from their tanks if they are short so supply is guaranteed. A sale is a sale. There's supply chain sharing as NZ is too small to support each player maintaining the infrastructure, this has been a bonus for the consumer as we have a very competitive market despite our size. It isn't true that any tanks are linked, each player spends alot of R&D as their special additives are what distinguish their product. You have no idea of the real origin of your tank, nor if it will be consistently the same going forward. Just enjoy it while you can. Edited May 12, 2015 by M5V8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jordan23 16 Report post Posted May 12, 2015 Just a random question to the OP.. Any reason why you don't run your M3 on 98 octane? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hybrid 1043 Report post Posted May 12, 2015 What you would of experienced is just a drop in temperature and air pressure with the colder weather. Both of which the MSS54 base ECUs measure and lookup these tables and adjust timing against knock values to suit. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C-130 Hercules 571 Report post Posted May 12, 2015 Only BP98 will do. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
benpaul12 62 Report post Posted May 12, 2015 Sometimes I've found Z's 95 to give me a noticeable improved change in performance over BP98, which is odd. Although I always go back to 98. Could just be psychosomatic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hotwire 352 Report post Posted May 12, 2015 Many years ago & early days of Challenge, (we had a local outlet), I had an Audi Quattro Coupe. Had owned the car in the last year or so of leaded fuel being available where the car ran fine on the old 96 octane. Once the fuel changed, I found it almost un drivable without it pinging under normal driving when using any of the 4 main fuel companies gas. Worse on a hot day. Running it on Challenge almost cut the pinging. Running av gas cut it completely... Was talking to the Challenge suppliers at the time about it - they said their fuel was coming from overseas already refined & was guaranteed to be true 95. Proof was in the pudding with this car - it was different gas back then. Not suggesting that today's Challenge is sourced the same. Earlier post above suggests it's not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dkonsta1 109 Report post Posted May 12, 2015 A lot of myths involved in the fuel quality. I am confused myself as well.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M5V8 337 Report post Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) Higher quality fuels (aka BP98) are just that. a better quality product. The RON rating is independently tested so you as the consumer get what you pay for. The differences between Gull / callenge 91 and for example Mobil / BP 91 are that Gull buy in and therefore have no hand in the quality. They buy just on price and you get what they buy in. This generally is the cheapest stock they can find. The big players control their own supply lines therefore make better quality products. They have reputations and large supply contracts to fulfill they need quality supply. Average "Jo Public" at the local BP service station gets the same product but retail competition is so, that profit on petrol on is very low. They all make more money on the coffee / pies and softdrinks customers buy at the same time. Hence why the stores have become more convenience stores over the last 20 years. Long story short. Like anything you get what you pay for. If you have a high performance car, or you keep cars longer term, go for the best you can get. If you have a old junker, or switch cars regular like, I wouldn't care so much as long as it meets manufacturer spec (minRON). Edited May 12, 2015 by M5V8 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neal 544 Report post Posted May 12, 2015 I always find my e46 M3 will knock when changing to 96 or sometimes on Mobil 98 blend. Does this not happen with yours ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vtgts300kw 90 Report post Posted May 12, 2015 Higher quality fuels (aka BP98) are just that. a better quality product. The RON rating is independently tested so you as the consumer get what you pay for. The differences between Gull / callenge 91 and for example Mobil / BP 91 are that Gull buy in and therefore have no hand in the quality. They buy just on price and you get what they buy in. This generally is the cheapest stock they can find. The big players control their own supply lines therefore make better quality products. They have reputations and large supply contracts to fulfill they need quality supply. Average "Jo Public" at the local BP service station gets the same product but retail competition is so, that profit on petrol on is very low. They all make more money on the coffee / pies and softdrinks customers buy at the same time. Hence why the stores have become more convenience stores over the last 20 years. Long story short. Like anything you get what you pay for. If you have a high performance car, or you keep cars longer term, go for the best you can get. If you have a old junker, or switch cars regular like, I wouldn't care so much as long as it meets manufacturer spec (minRON). Hasn't their profit on petrol increased significantly over recent years? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jordan23 16 Report post Posted May 13, 2015 I always find my e46 M3 will knock when changing to 96 or sometimes on Mobil 98 blend. Does this not happen with yours ? I never ran my E46 M3 on 95, sometimes on the Gull Force 10 product but I would get less fuel economy on the Gull product. If I remember correctly the E36 M3 with the evo engine had a sticker on the fuel gauge which said use 98 octane. Even my shitty Honda Odyssey gets fed 95 octane, in the owners manual thats the minimum RON to run on it. V6 Odyssey. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
richard 384 Report post Posted May 13, 2015 some stuff to read http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/energy/oil-refining4.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CamB 48 Report post Posted May 13, 2015 Long story short. Like anything you get what you pay for. If you have a high performance car, or you keep cars longer term, go for the best you can get. If you have a old junker, or switch cars regular like, I wouldn't care so much as long as it meets manufacturer spec (minRON). I don't think you ever need to run more octane than the engine needs in a given moment (which isn't necessarily its handbook's minimum octane - it might be higher depending on temperature and load, etc). As long as the ECU isn't pulling timing due to knock, then there's no benefit to higher octane ... although there's no simple way to know this with modern ECUs. Totally agree for performance cars though. "You get what you pay for" - have you ever noticed the small print under "98RON" is "Min 97.5 RON". Grrrr - why is 98 not actually 98. http://mobil.co.nz/New_Zealand-English/PA/products_fuels_auto_s8.aspx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
benpaul12 62 Report post Posted May 13, 2015 Hasn't their profit on petrol increased significantly over recent years? Not the stations, the companies that own the groups. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Haitoman 110 Report post Posted May 13, 2015 Just a random question to the OP.. Any reason why you don't run your M3 on 98 octane? I do usually but I sometimes get caught out and have to go to a Z which doesn't have it. It just so happened that I was out in the wops and the nearest station was a Challenge. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Haitoman 110 Report post Posted May 13, 2015 I always find my e46 M3 will knock when changing to 96 or sometimes on Mobil 98 blend. Does this not happen with yours ? Definitely not...It never knocks no matter what fuel I put in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M5V8 337 Report post Posted May 18, 2015 (edited) Hasn't their profit on petrol increased significantly over recent years? No. If anything it's tighter now. They make way more on pies and coffee. BP is NZ's largest coffee supplier (per cup basis). All the profit in the petroleum industry is upstream (exploration). Edited May 19, 2015 by M5V8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
huff3r 347 Report post Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) Challenge does not buy in fuel. Their fuel is merely Caltex without the techron additive. Both companies are owned by chevron. This is all coming from a chevron, and former Caltex employee. (Not me). So maybe you got a good batch, but chances are it's more to do with what hybrid was talking about. Edited May 19, 2015 by huff3r Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
