Transmission Fluid - ZF 5HP18 / A5S310Z

[Michael. 2313]

1 hour ago, Eagle said:

Penrite ATF FS. Far superior to that Castrol.

I just put about 8 liters in my 5HP30, shifts perfectly. 

[arktis 58]

So it's been a while..

Is talking to BNT about Fuchs Titan the way to go? For 6HP26

Or am I better off buying this from SCA?
https://www.supercheapauto.co.nz/p/penrite-penrite-automatic-transmission-fluid---fs-4-litre/342304.html?cgid=SCN01070501#start=7

I saw @Olaf drained and filled, then refilled. I'm not sure how keen I am to fork out for 2 tanks of fluid. Is this totally necessary?

[gjm 3258]

ATF-FS is good fluid. Check it is suitable - some cars/gearboxes have explicit recommendations. 

[Eagle 1662]

That isn't the correct spec Penrite oil for the 6HP - this is which is much more expensive - https://penriteoil.com.au/products/atf-bmv-full-syn

You need at least 2 changes (3 if its bad) to get most of the old oil diluted enough with the fresh stuff if its never been done before (using the drain and fill method). The only time i would do one drain\fill is if its clearly been done before and the oil looks still looks fairly clean.

[arktis 58]

1 hour ago, Eagle said:

That isn't the correct spec Penrite oil for the 6HP - this is which is much more expensive - https://penriteoil.com.au/products/atf-bmv-full-syn

You need at least 2 changes (3 if it’s bad) to get most of the old oil diluted enough with the fresh stuff if it’s never been done before (using the drain and fill method). The only time i would do one drain\fill is if it’s clearly been done before and the oil looks still looks fairly clean.

Damn, no local stores have it. Do you recommend the Fuchs stuff? I’m assuming they’ll guide me as to which product I need. It’s sounding like I might need 20L of the stuff

Symptoms are clunky shifts at low speeds between 1/2/3 and it slips out of reverse when reversing up my driveway. I had the car for sale, but I’m gonna have to address this first.. I’m gonna do all the sleeves and seals, fluid pan, and fluid - and pray that I don’t need to buy a set of solenoids.

[Eagle 1662]

Any reputable oil that meet the specs would be fine. Yeah i usually buy a 20L which is usually far better value. Ive used Fuchs in the past but Penrite is well priced and easily available so i tend to stick with it.  You'd definitely want to reset the adaptions as well if you do change the fluid, sounds like it probably needs more than that to remedy it. 

[gjm 3258]

On 7/31/2024 at 6:25 PM, Eagle said:

That isn't the correct spec Penrite oil for the 6HP - this is which is much more expensive - https://penriteoil.com.au/products/atf-bmv-full-syn

You need at least 2 changes (3 if its bad) to get most of the old oil diluted enough with the fresh stuff if its never been done before (using the drain and fill method). The only time i would do one drain\fill is if its clearly been done before and the oil looks still looks fairly clean.

ATF-BMV is needed for many Mercedes, too.

[Olaf 3317]

On 7/31/2024 at 4:51 PM, E63 said:

So it's been a while..

Is talking to BNT about Fuchs Titan the way to go? For 6HP26

Or am I better off buying this from SCA?
https://www.supercheapauto.co.nz/p/penrite-penrite-automatic-transmission-fluid---fs-4-litre/342304.html?cgid=SCN01070501#start=7

I saw @Olaf drained and filled, then refilled. I'm not sure how keen I am to fork out for 2 tanks of fluid. Is this totally necessary?

For your ZF6 back when I was dealing with Pageeuro they used a Fuchs equivalent.  It was okay... if I was doing it again it'd be Lifeguard.

You can use less fluid by getting it done on a transmission service machine.

I'm about to have Jon @ Begley Motor Works do a ZF8 service - it'll be getting either Lifeguard 8 or the Shell stuff from BMW.  Or Penrite ATF BMV, at a pinch.

@E63 why not get it done by Jon at Begley Motor Works (Marton) - he has the transmission machine that pushes new oil in as it pulls the old stuff out.  That's how we did a service (incl filter) in Jan 2023 last year at 205.5k km on my ZF5 (my e46) with Lubeguard Full Synthetic ATF and it's shifting superbly (212k kms). Previous trans service was ~50k kms earlier.  

Edited August 3 by Olaf

[arktis 58]

18 hours ago, Olaf said:

For your ZF6 back when I was dealing with Pageeuro they used a Fuchs equivalent.  It was okay... if I was doing it again it'd be Lifeguard.

You can use less fluid by getting it done on a transmission service machine.

I'm about to have Jon @ Begley Motor Works do a ZF8 service - it'll be getting either Lifeguard 8 or the Shell stuff from BMW.  Or Penrite ATF BMV, at a pinch.

@E63 why not get it done by Jon at Begley Motor Works (Marton) - he has the transmission machine that pushes new oil in as it pulls the old stuff out.  That's how we did a service (incl filter) in Jan 2023 last year at 205.5k km on my ZF5 (my e46) with Lubeguard Full Synthetic ATF and it's shifting superbly (212k kms). Previous trans service was ~50k kms earlier.  

This looks pretty good. How much did the service cost you?

I've ordered new seals and a fluid pan from FCP Euro, so I'm fairly committed to doing it myself - but I might actually save money getting it done on this machine if it uses less fluid. Being all the way in Marton, it might not be all that viable for me, because it's a 4-hour drive there and back, and I'd probably have to take a day off.

What difference did you notice with the Fuchs fluid?

[Olaf 3317]

You're not comparing apples with apples, really.  My e60 ZF6 was done with drain-and-fill, run ~500kms, and them drop the pan, do the seal, pan filter, all the bolts so more labour and more fluid. This was a car with ~152k kms that had never had a trans service, so I was trying to give it love before it shat the bed.  

The e46 ZF5 had shat the bed at ~115k kms and had a full rebuild, and a trans service (pan drop, filter change, new fluid) at about 165k kms, prior the service (below) at 205k kms.

1. Drained and filled

2. Filter Change etc (This is more like what you'll be doing on your driveway at home.)

 

 

I got my e46 ZF5 done as part of a larger service covering many items, and used the fancy machine so used less fluid.  No messing around and it shifted like butter afterwards.

 

Essentially you're committed to a course of action, your Trans sounds like it's not at all happy, and you're trying not to spend too much and hoping it's going to get better with least amount of $.  I'm picking your oil's going to be black and burned with grit it it.  

You might want to look into the drain a litre, add a lite approach that I had to use on my old Volvo 850 T5.  Here's what I recall - do your own research.  You have a clean container marked with a litre (or a quart), and a dirty container marked with a litre (or a quart) as per your clean container.  With a warm engine and trans, disconnect line from trans to cooler, connect hose to your dirty container.  Run the engine and watch the dirty container slowly fill, shut off at the line.  Add same quantity of clean fluid into your trans (Through fill port, trans dipstick tube, or via the trans cooler return line or fill port in your trans - depending on your application).  Rinse and repeat until your oil is coming out clean-looking.  For my Volvo that took 14 litres. I added 'Trans-Tune' from the folks that make the magic decarbonising fluid Seafoam - that's a whole other story on whether or not additives are a good idea in your ZF.  For my Volvo, it improved shifting, improved overall operation of the auto.   This is the backyard equivalent of the fancy trans machine without the hydraulic pressure of the machine pumps behind it, using the trans to do it's own pumping.  And you'd still want to drop the pan/filter beforehand and change it out, so you're up for ~5-6 litres for that, and then, what.... 10-14 litres for the prime thing?  

Best of luck.  I think there's some how-tos for re-doing the valve blocks in the ZF6, with O-ring kits? I forget now.  HTH.

EDIT:  What difference did I notice after the e60 ZF6 Fuchs trans pan and mechatronic sleeve service?  It was 'more decisive' going downhill and changing down a gear automatically... changing up on a light throttle was smoother, less indecision... and changeups under load were crisper.  No harshness introduced as a result of the service.  We surmised we'd gotten to it at the right time, before friction material had gotten burnt off badly.

Edited August 3 by Olaf
context

[Toksis 3]

Total Transmission oil is good too. I ask a mechanic to change my trans oil.. And after, transmissions shifting is so ugly and stuff. I thought mechanic broke my transmission. However, When I tried to do a Reset and Relearn from the obd software. And do a calibration where you drive your car (not even doing the  relearn on the high speed.) Transmission run so smooth after 2 months.  I was wondering, using a lifeguard zf is just a Hype? You can absolutely use other oil brands as long as it says it fits your car? I think the computer will adjust when you click the Relearn in the scanner and not just the reset adaptations?

[arktis 58]

On 8/4/2024 at 11:04 AM, Olaf said:

You're not comparing apples with apples, really.  My e60 ZF6 was done with drain-and-fill, run ~500kms, and them drop the pan, do the seal, pan filter, all the bolts so more labour and more fluid. This was a car with ~152k kms that had never had a trans service, so I was trying to give it love before it shat the bed.  

The e46 ZF5 had shat the bed at ~115k kms and had a full rebuild, and a trans service (pan drop, filter change, new fluid) at about 165k kms, prior the service (below) at 205k kms.

1. Drained and filled

2. Filter Change etc (This is more like what you'll be doing on your driveway at home.)

 

 

I got my e46 ZF5 done as part of a larger service covering many items, and used the fancy machine so used less fluid.  No messing around and it shifted like butter afterwards.

 

Essentially you're committed to a course of action, your Trans sounds like it's not at all happy, and you're trying not to spend too much and hoping it's going to get better with least amount of $.  I'm picking your oil's going to be black and burned with grit it it.  

You might want to look into the drain a litre, add a lite approach that I had to use on my old Volvo 850 T5.  Here's what I recall - do your own research.  You have a clean container marked with a litre (or a quart), and a dirty container marked with a litre (or a quart) as per your clean container.  With a warm engine and trans, disconnect line from trans to cooler, connect hose to your dirty container.  Run the engine and watch the dirty container slowly fill, shut off at the line.  Add same quantity of clean fluid into your trans (Through fill port, trans dipstick tube, or via the trans cooler return line or fill port in your trans - depending on your application).  Rinse and repeat until your oil is coming out clean-looking.  For my Volvo that took 14 litres. I added 'Trans-Tune' from the folks that make the magic decarbonising fluid Seafoam - that's a whole other story on whether or not additives are a good idea in your ZF.  For my Volvo, it improved shifting, improved overall operation of the auto.   This is the backyard equivalent of the fancy trans machine without the hydraulic pressure of the machine pumps behind it, using the trans to do it's own pumping.  And you'd still want to drop the pan/filter beforehand and change it out, so you're up for ~5-6 litres for that, and then, what.... 10-14 litres for the prime thing?  

Best of luck.  I think there's some how-tos for re-doing the valve blocks in the ZF6, with O-ring kits? I forget now.  HTH.

EDIT:  What difference did I notice after the e60 ZF6 Fuchs trans pan and mechatronic sleeve service?  It was 'more decisive' going downhill and changing down a gear automatically... changing up on a light throttle was smoother, less indecision... and changeups under load were crisper.  No harshness introduced as a result of the service.  We surmised we'd gotten to it at the right time, before friction material had gotten burnt off badly.

Thanks for the detail Olaf.

I've found quite a few decent guides and videos on the process. I think what I might do is do a drain-and-fill myself, then I could consider taking it to a shop to get it properly flushed. I'd really prefer not to buy 20 litres of the stuff, let alone find a place to dispose it. I've seen a few people say that you can bring waste fluid to Repco/SCA to dispose - this is not true. I called 4 total stores and none of them do this anymore.

I reckon the car is going to be a lot nicer to drive before I get this done. Really hoping it'll be all sweet without having to buy new solenoids.

[Olaf 3317]

You can dispose of your waste oil at the WCC tip - on the west side of the transfer station there's a collection area for oils, adjacent to the paint collection (and battery collection) spaces.  HTH.