E39 INPA - no CAN communication

[Bruce 1234 1]

Hello. I have a E39 540i with an M62TU that will not crank. Bugger.

With INPA I can communicate with the k-line and get info on the keys etc, but not the CAN line to talk to the DME / ECU / engine module - whatever it's called. Also, my Foxwell scanner told me I have no CAN communication.

INPA tells me my key is ok but ECU is rejected because of the isn number / password (i.e. the rolling codes), but as I can not talk to the engine module I cannot reset this. (Also - the starter motor is blocked due to it not knowing that the trans is in park or neutral - which I am assuming is the sloe cause of it not cranking, because this info is not getting from the trans module through the DME).

I have been using the 20 pin connecter under the bonnet - I downloaded switching software to put my lead into CAN mode - have tried both Mike's and Bimmergeeks INPA download on a windows 10 and 7 machine, tried 2 leads - white and green circuit board, yes have bridged pins 7 and 8, replaced the battery and charged it, checked the fuses (pulled the carpet to check the ones under the seat), checked as many earth straps as I could find ...

So, help please.

Does anyone have a lead they know works with this vehicle that I can either borrow or buy to eliminate this as being the problem, as I've read they can make a difference.

It could be my DME is in fact fried - is there anyone who can bench test these? I'm happy to send the EWS and DME to someone for a check or re-sync and pay for time / skills.

The vehicle was apparently running fine (elderly couple so I trust them) until they left the lights on a couple of times in a row and had the vehicle jump started. So either the rolling codes or a fried module would both make sense.

Also: On the dash, the PRND lights are all lit up, and the temp gauge pegs to max. Could this be caused by the EWS not releasing the DME? Or not? What does / could it indicate?

Any advice on what else to check - I used to work as a mechanic so am happy pulling things off / apart, and can figure out which way up a multi-meter goes, but am pretty lost here and also admit to not being particularly computer savvy.

Have learnt a lot about BMW's lately but if anything I have said above makes no sense or shows I don't know what I'm on about please tell me.

I live close to Kaitaia - is there anyone familiar with INPA, or any other tools I may need I can bribe to visit me.

Basically I look at the car and go 'yeah, I know they don't sell for much and I'm probably wasting my money and time, but man that's a nice looking vehicle and gee it must be nice to drive. Be a shame to throw it away'.

Ta.

Bruce.

Edited July 20, 2019 by Bruce 1234
Added PRND lights lit and temp gauge pegging

[dirtydoogle 383]

Check for injector pulse or spark? 

Where are you located? (Never mind, re read post) 

Only reliable way to use a 20 pin port is with an ADS interface and serial cable 

 

Edited July 19, 2019 by dirtydoogle

[Bruce 1234 1]

Quote

 

OK. The ADS interface. Can these be bought in NZ? Or any suggested overseas supplier?

My 20 pin connector does not have pin 15 - so to go from the 20 to 16 pin adaptor - does anyone have a wiring diagram?

Also, I have been told that INPA is not the best program for this age (older) car. With the above ADS interface etc any suggestions on what software to use?

Checking for an injector pulse / spark - as the vehicle is not cranking I don't see how I could do this? At one stage I thought about checking for power at the fuel pump - can you normally hear these prime at start up?

[NZ00Z3 187]

You have two scanners  telling you that there is no CAN communication.  Maybe follow the wiring from the diagnostics port to the modules looking for faults etc.

[M3AN 4016]

@BreakMyWindow will be able to advise but I think you should stick to native ADS and no adaptors etc. This means a serial port on the PC, ADS cable and 20 pin connector. I use a TinyADS cable (https://openlabs.co/OSHW/Tiny-ADS-Interface - available on ebay) and an old laptop with a serial port on the docking station.

I'm not sure if that's actually your comms problem but it's almost impossible to diagnose if you have mix and match diag hardware/software. The BMW setup in the '90's was sensitive at best.

 

 

[Bruce 1234 1]

Thank you to all replies so far. 

Yes, I think probably the next thing to do is trace / test my wiring. I think I got obsessed with it being the rolling codes being out of sync - and maybe it still is - though not necessarily. The temp gauge pegging could either be a faulty sender, which I'll test, or combined with my other problems suggests a short to earth or to other wires in a loom / plug somewhere.

Out of interest, when I removed the carpets I found the rust shown in the attached photos in the left front which I cleaned up while I was there. While getting the centre console and carpet out took a bit of time, it was worth it just for doing this as opposed to finding a hole in a few years.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Bruce 1234
Learnt some more googling.

[dirtydoogle 383]

9 hours ago, Bruce 1234 said:

OK. The ADS interface. Can these be bought in NZ? Or any suggested overseas supplier?

My 20 pin connector does not have pin 15 - so to go from the 20 to 16 pin adaptor - does anyone have a wiring diagram?

Also, I have been told that INPA is not the best program for this age (older) car. With the above ADS interface etc any suggestions on what software to use?

Checking for an injector pulse / spark - as the vehicle is not cranking I don't see how I could do this? At one stage I thought about checking for power at the fuel pump - can you normally hear these prime at start up?

I have a strange e39 here that will only communicate via the ads interface (tiny ADS, computer and all that was built by Tawa one here) and with my second INPA set up using an adapter throws can communication codes. INPA and ISTA are the bees knees 

 

Sorry did not read the cranking part. 

 

Have you confirmed ignition switch active  relay etc? Otherwise dead key, fried DME or no EWS action would be my suspicion 

[Bruce 1234 1]

Quote

 

Yes - checked the ignition switch and every relay I could find in the e-box (including the big black one with 9 or 11 pins on it that I later discovered was the windscreen washer relay when I got my Bentley's manuals ? ). Apparently there are relays in behind the glove-box but buggered if I could find them. I have 3 keys, 1 of which is the valet key which had never been used so I'm guessing they can't all be messed up. INPA also tells me they are all being recognised as ok by the EWS.

There is a DME with EWS delete for my vehicle (M62) for sale on Trade Me at the moment for $550. Am tempted to buy it but it seems like cheating and throwing parts at it without actually diagnosing it properly - especially as I have not checked all my wiring yet. Any feedback on the price of $550 for this? I know I've allready asked this but is there anyone in NZ I can send my DME (and EWS) to to get the EWS deleted?

The more I read about E39's the more I realise they're a bit of a nightmare in that don't be surprised if yours is a bit different from the one next to it. Oh well.

[Bruce 1234 1]

Photo of the ECU / DME. 3 of the pins have corroded off.

The old coolant up the loom all the way from the thermostat trick.

Edited September 14, 2019 by Bruce 1234
fussy

[Bruce 1234 1]

Apparently M62's are known to leak from the electrically heated thermostat. Coolant then travels all the way up the loom to the back of the ECU. (Found this on Google so it must be true.)

I'm not totally sure this is the cause of the problem pictured above or whether the green colour is just plain old copper oxide (which we used to call green death and shows up auto plugs all over the place) caused by moisture in the e-box from having been parked outside and not sealing properly.

The water up the loom might be a myth coming from the green colour. Coolant is green so green colour must come from coolant. Anyone know for sure?

Regardless of the cause, 3 pins are corroded / broken off.

I swapped the pictured ECU / DME with one with the EWS deleted, and the car now runs (yay), and I can communicate with it using INPA. It is throwing up a EWS tampering code (no surprises), and the check engine light is on - though this may be because it is also has a leak detection pump code showing (next thing to try and fix). I also replaced the thermostat housing in case the leaking up the loom story is in fact true, and put vaseline over the rubber e-box seal.

I have had a quote to fix the old ECU for $245+ which I will probably get done as it will be nice to have it running without the check engine light. (I'll try and clear the leak detection pump code first though)

And then take it in for a WOF and go cruising.

I've driven it up and down the country road I'm on a couple of times for a total of about 40km. By golly gosh it's fast and quiet and smooth and comfy and nice to drive. Should of bought one years ago.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Bruce 1234