Tyres for my Mercedes 500SE (updated)

[gjm 3258]

Anyone have experience of both? Looking for some tyres in a 205/65-15.
Can get either of these for under $145 a corner.

IIRC, the Pirellis are more comfortable, but not so good on wear or handling.

Edited September 4, 2020 by gjm

[gjm 3258]

Can now find the P1s at under $100 a corner! ?

Unless there is something fundamentally wrong with the P1s, this looks like the deal to go for.

[gjm 3258]

40 minutes ago, 3pedals said:

They are a poverty pack Pirelli tyre - if you are looking for low performance , low stick and shitty handling they are fine. 

 I had a car with them fitted, binned them and went to Yokohama ES32  - way better tyre for the money also looked at the triple max don't rate them 

Would be happy with the ES32 but can't find them in a V-rating, only H.
I'm unlikely to spend much time cruising at 130mph+ but the car is said to be good for 145-150mph and I think the tyres fitted need to be capable of that?

[gjm 3258]

I'd not regard the P1 Cinturato as a poverty pack tyre. The price is a special offer - they are normally $160-200 per corner, significantly more than the Yoko ES32.

 

This started as a relatively easy comparison, but V-rated tyres being specified for the 500SE makes it more difficult (to me).

Tall sidewalls typically mean lower speed rating.

Stock size is 205/65-15V fitted to a 15x7J rim. Load rating is a bit trickier to be sure of as it is variously quoted at 94, 96 or 98.
Some choice in this size, from Pirelli P1 Cinturato, Toyo C100+, and Goodyear Optilife or TripleMax. (Leaving aside the Triangles and similar.)

The rolling diameter is the same as a 225/60-15 (also a legal fitment on the 15x7J rim) of which I can only find Hankook K415 Optimo or Nankang NA1 in a V-rating. (I've had bad experiences with Nankangs.)

Struggling to find any other suitable sizes in a legal fitment.

 

The speed rating part is a potential legal/insurance requirement. The WoF regulations say one reason for failure is "A tyre has a speed category that is less than the speed limit for the vehicle or less than the vehicle’s maximum speed if this is less than the speed limit."
The speed limit is obviously 100km/h. Or 110, if you're exploring roads south of Hamilton (for example), suggesting an H-rated tyre is entirely fine. (This is contrary to UK MoT legislation where the tyre has to be designed to run at the maximum speed of the vehicle regardless of speed-related law.)

[gjm 3258]

9 minutes ago, 3pedals said:

Pirelli NZ list the P 7 in a 225/55/16 which would be an reasonable option if you can find rims  and they are Y speed and 99 load rated 

I wasn't aware the P1 was now made in China. Not necessarily a bad thing, but rarely a recommendation.

The P7 is a nice tyre, and you've reminded me that I do have a set of 16" rims which I was considering refurbishing for use. However, that takes me from (say) sub-$200 per tyre to $300++, not including rim refurb cost. But there are other options in that size.
Need to check rim widths, then look again with a potential 16" tyre in mind.

 

[gjm 3258]

I was happy to go to $200 a corner and would hardly consider that a budgetary constraint given the car and type of tyre. The P1s (knowledge gained since first seeing them for sale notwithstanding) appeared to represent a good deal, and normal price is comparable to many other good tyres. (Not silly-cheap rubbish.) The V-rating is proving tricky (if it is legally necessary.) Potentially looking at $300 per corner, plus rim refurb, is at least a doubling in cost, and something to take a moment or two to think about.

Skimping on tyres isn't a consideration. 

I've refurbed rims before. Not ones like these, though... (These aren't mine - I have two black, and two silver rims.) 16x8 and 16x9.

Fortunately I'm not running on bald tyres, so there's time to consider options and save some more $ if necessary.

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by gjm

[Willy Sea 46]

1 minute ago, gjm said:

I was happy to go to $200 a corner and would hardly consider that a budgetary constraint given the car and type of tyre. The P1s (knowledge gained since first seeing them for sale notwithstanding) appeared to represent a good deal, and normal price is comparable to many other good tyres. (Not silly-cheap rubbish.) The V-rating is proving tricky (if it is legally necessary.) Potentially looking at $300 per corner, plus rim refurb, is at least a doubling in cost, and something to take a moment or two to think about.

I've refurbed rims before. Not ones like these, though... (These aren't mine - I have two black, and two silver rims.) 16x8 and 16x9.

Fortunately I'm not running on bald tyres, so there's time to consider options and save some more $ if necessary.

 

Over my motoring years, 52 of them as a licenced driver, I have come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as a budgetary restraint, especially when it comes to wheels and tyres!  Do it gjm.

[gjm 3258]

Just now, Willy Sea said:

Over my motoring years, 52 of them as a licenced driver, I have come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as a budgetary restraint, especially when it comes to wheels and tyres!  Do it gjm.

I might have to paint the calipers, too... ?

[gjm 3258]

I'm very aware of the problem those 9" rims add! A 255/50 is the only size tyre which could fit both 8 & 9" rims, and aside from not being a great idea to do that, the tyres just don't seem to exist. 

I've run 17" rims on a W126 before. Wouldn't do it again. 

Which brings me back to the stock rims and investigating options there. 

[Olaf 3322]

4 hours ago, gjm said:

I might have to paint the calipers, too... ?

VHT Caliper Paint, mate.  Recommended.  Goes a long way too.  Silver for the cooler gent; like my hair!! ?

[gjm 3258]

Just checked with a semi-domesticated LVVTA inspector around the legality/suitability of H-rated tyres on a a car which would have originally been fitted with V-rated tyres.

He in not a WoF inspector (trying to find a tame one of those) but he agrees with my interpretation of the inspection manual -

22 hours ago, gjm said:

"A tyre has a speed category that is less than the speed limit for the vehicle or less than the vehicle’s maximum speed if this is less than the speed limit."

- in that the [prevailing] speed limit is safely under the H rating of the tyre, and as such is permissible on NZ roads.

That does open things up a bit.

[coop 261]

I’m running Dunlop spot 300E 205 65 15 on my 560SEL. I was going to go Contis but he did me a decent price on them. Around $140 each off the top of my head. 
They are quiet but apart from that no comment on how they perform - the car had 18s before it with poor ride quality, and currently the rear SLS shocks are buggerEd so ride quality isn’t what it should be. 
 

I have a set of genuine 3 piece 18x8.5 monoblocks in need of a refurb if you may be interested. I think I have some spacers for the front to suit the 126. 
I don’t know how they’d look on a 126 sedan. I think they’d suit more the c126, 124 or the r129 chassis. 

My 560 came with replica 18” monoblocks and IMO it looked wrong for two reasons. It needed to be lowered as the profile of the tyre was dwarfed by the huge wheel arch gap. 
And the rim exposed the tiny rotors and calipers behind it. 
 

Edit - Ron, your post above reminds me of something I read from the 80s when these were new. F1 driver, it may have been Senna, was driving the 500 or 560 spec in Europe chasing a 911 and the Porsche couldn’t loose it. 
But yes, I’ve owned several of these cars including the under tyred 2200kg W140 (16 inch rim) and they can get a bit hairy at a decent pace. 

Edited September 6, 2020 by coop

[gjm 3258]

A canvassing of other W126 owners displayed the expected vast array of preferences.

What did come out was other than an obvious preference for the very best Michelins (etc) that money can buy, Falkens were very highly regarded.

So... Our 500SE now has a set of 225/60-15 Falken Ziex Ze914 91W tyres. The load index is correct for the model of car, and the 'W' speed rating is a bonus. While obviously wider, the 225/60-15 is designed for a 6.0-8.0" rim (ours are 7"), the sidewall is 0.1" taller and the rolling circumference is a bare 0.4% more.
The difference is astonishing. Whether that is due to the slight change in width and profile, or different manufacturer/style/design, is another matter. Is it better? Probably... But having noticed a difference, a streaming wet road probably isn't the best place for a first drive to perform any sort of test.

Not a premium tyre, but certainly not a budget one, and from what I have read, Falken are often regarded as the best of the non-premium manufacturers. Reviews often place them ahead of much more expensive alternatives.

[leichtbau 525]

On 9/6/2020 at 12:58 PM, coop said:

 

I have a set of genuine 3 piece 18x8.5 monoblocks in need of a refurb if you may be interested. I think I have some spacers for the front to suit the 126. 
I don’t know how they’d look on a 126 sedan. I think they’d suit more the c126, 124 or the r129 chassis. 

 

I'd be tempted to buy another 124 just to fit those, wow!

[gjm 3258]

Constructive, balanced and detailed criticism is always welcome. ☮️   

I'd written to Falken asking for their recommendation for my car before posting here. The reply didn't come through until this morning.

First - load rating. The 91 rating should by definition be adequate, but it turns out that was a typo - the tyres are rated 96. 710kg per tyre at correct inflation; 2840kg for the set. 

The 7" rim. Skinny? Apparently not. Optimal fit for this tyre is said, by Falken, to be on a 6.5" rim - bear in mind it is a 60 profile. 7" is absolutely fine, of course, and while I did scratch my head over that (I too thought it was a little narrow but was happy to follow industry guidelines), LVVTA recommended rim width for a 225 on a 15" rim is always 6.0-8.0" (or less) from a 50 through an 80 profile.

Now, I didn't say they don't feel good, only that they felt different, and that was after one brief drive in pouring rain. And they are different. A cruise out yesterday showed that. They are much quieter than the previous tyres, and seem to roll better; an extremely unscientific lift off coasting deceleration test suggests more speed is retained than before. There may need to be a little pressure adjustment but they feel pretty good.

I have wondered if there is sometimes the slightest delay in turning in, possibly a slight sensation of understeer (compared to before). It does take quite a bit to provoke that, though, and it's far from an issue. Just... Different. And altering driving style means it doesn't happen at all.

[gjm 3258]

The more I drive it with the new tyres, the better it feels. Acceptance of familiarity bias, or some sort of running in benefit? Certainly I've reflected on some of the characteristics of the old tyres and wouldn't want to go back.