F80 M3 Base audio system upgrade

[Dogballs 115]

Well done, nice little “feature add” for $75!

[Neal 545]

Next small project, IPhone 13 user so pre empting new model next month. Need to change from BMW iPhone Snapin lightning to USB C for lossless audio /  bmw apps / phone charging  duties.

Going to use a usb c adapter from a G12 7 series and install in console and connect into a snapin port on Idrive. Will add power and light circuit . Should give 3 amps / 15 watts of charging.

Edited August 16 by Neal

[Dogballs 115]

1 hour ago, Neal said:

Next small project, IPhone 13 user so pre empting new model next month. Need to change from BMW iPhone Snapin lightning to USB C for lossless audio /  bmw apps / phone charging  duties.

Going to use a usb c adapter from a G12 7 series and install in console and connect into a snapin port on Idrive. Will add power and light circuit . Should give 3 amps / 15 watts of charging.

Excellent! - I’ve been scheming the same thing.. 

I’ve contemplated using a usb hub module ( which is a fdl option in nbt evo) rather than the “direct usb C module in the picture. - my thoughts are: the nbtevo never had usbC, so it my not be compatible?  - I struggled to find a definitive answer…

[Neal 545]

The nice thing about usb is backwards compatible so it’s 4 wire data connection should work of the hub or off USB 2 on evo. My plan is to use the usb c off usb 2 and possibly the regular usb off a hub for back seat use ( daughters phone when in charge of playlists 😀) I’ve added the FDL coding for a hub when I was trying to get usb 2 working after the ID6 retrofit. Found the issue to be a different USB FDL but left it configured.

Was looking at the console area behind the snap in base area and there looks like it could be mounted in the same manner as the console bunker light.
 

Also thinking of modding the iPhone snapin adapter connector from lightning to USB C so I still get the benefit of docking new usbc iphone. Would still get the benefits of the aerial boost from its amplified passive aerial in the snap in and the cooling fan.

For the power NBT USB ports has 2.1 amps of total charging  but the USBc adapter also has +12ve and light pin. On the G series it looks like they can use a power feed from the Fem module which no doubt can turn off for parasitic drain. But this gives 3 amps of charging if used. So just working out where to augment the power from. Last resort will be a spare switched unused position in rear fuse box. Or maybe divert power from snap in plate.

Let us know what you were thinking for powering the usb hub . Not sure if the area is pre wired for the blue connector.

This is what I’m think of for mounting position. It might need a custom 90 degree farka connector for depth but not sure at this stage.

 

 

 

 

[kwhelan 241]

Do you need to worry about the different standards for fast charging, I know the cords are chipped independently and the chargers have to support PD. I would want my usb-c to support fast charging of android as well as iphone, some of the new phones can use 65w now and someone in the backseat might have an ipad on a trip? Its only going to get more year by year and its the fast charge thats the important bit in an emergency.

for the cradle it would make more sense to change/modify the pocket to take a wireless pad, far more convenient, I purchased a beefy one from ali , they all seem to use a simple cable power feed, and dismantled it down to the actual coils and then fitted it to my car phone pocket and it works brilliantly. Bit of trial and error to make sure pad lines up with phone easily, added a wireless to apple car play adapter and everything is kaipai

Edited August 16 by kwhelan

[Neal 545]

On the charging front I thought I’d stick with wired so I’d have data / audio / charging. It also gives me the option to turn off appleplay if I’m after a higher quality audio stream from the phone via USB.  Notice the wifi transcoding for CarPlay over wifi smears the treble a bit using Spotify / Apple Music. BMW didn’t implement usb  CarPlay.

Thanks for the heads up on the cable chip. I’ll thinking of using a USB 90 degree male to straight male for the snap in adapter mod. I’m using a iPhone6 snap in adapters and modded the dock area a while back to take a larger iPhone. I’ll make sure it can support the 15 watts available from the BMW  USB c. 

Good point on the rear outlet. Current there is no 12 volt points in the back . Was thinking for phone charging and.audio Do have a Plugin usb c 40 watt charger in the SUV for tablet. Could add a 12v point in rear.

Also noticed that 7 / x7 series have a USB / tablet bracket and trim built into rear seats. But don’t think I could do that to the M3 seats.

[Neal 545]

@kwhelan  Thanks for the heads up on USB C charging specs , better understanding now , I didn't realize it supported different voltages. eg , 5 - 20 volts. Makes sense as 65 watts over 5 volts would need thicker cable compared with 20 volts at 3 amps.  Will stick with the BMW USB C 5 volt variant. 

Otherwise if wanted fast charge something like this would be good to hide away and just add  pannel insert. Could be an option for rear passenger device charging though.  

https://www.edecoa.com/featured/newly-arrival-5kv-solar-inverter-100w-12v24v-usb-c-car-laptop-charger-universal-65w-pd-3-0-type-c-laptop-adapter-dual-2-4a-usb-qc-3-0-fast-charging-for-phone-tablet-edecoa-4.html

 

[kwhelan 241]

On 8/18/2024 at 6:47 PM, Neal said:

@kwhelan  Thanks for the heads up on USB C charging specs , better understanding now , I didn't realize it supported different voltages. eg , 5 - 20 volts. Makes sense as 65 watts over 5 volts would need thicker cable compared with 20 volts at 3 amps.  Will stick with the BMW USB C 5 volt variant. 

its an ever changing rabbit hole , the new macbooks are 140w over a usb-c port for example and even the laptops external ports are 20w output, wait till you go down the thunderbolt minefield, ports look exactly the same but the cables aren't ,

https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/CABJ5C3003/J5create-240W-Full-Featured-USB4-Gen3-Cable-240W-P

looks exactly the same as a usb-c one from the $2 shop but it definitely isn't

It amazes me there aren't a few more sparks but it all seems to be pretty bulletproof so far

 

 

[Neal 545]

Parts arrived today. Will change location as not enough room to mount USB adapter into back of armrest. Would require too much plastic to be removed around the armrest hinge area. I also tried the usb adapter into where the console light fitting . Didn’t go far enough back depth wise.
 

I’ve also abandoned the idea of putting a usb extension into the back seat console freash air area. Think I’ll stop with a 12 volt outlet.

I think this will be plan B location. Looks like it will fit 

[Neal 545]

Finished the usb c mount . Cut up part of the trim that came with the adapter and made an insert out of it. Didnt like my chances of cutting a countersunk rectangle into the aux / usb trim. 

I did find that in that position the usb c plus HSB cable was hard up against the hand brake bracket. Swapped the positions of the adapters around as the old usb / aux doesnt need the same depth. Thinking I’ll stop with this combo and not install a hub for third USB port off idrive.

Wiring wise need to sort a BMW HSD cable and will connect to the USB connection point feeding the snap in adapter.

Need to make up a small loom for the fast charging connector on the usb c . Needs a 12volt Ve+ from terminal 30b , a ground connection and a interior light feed extended from the  armrest bunker light. 

[Neal 545]

On the BMW USB C adaptor front I'm now a self taught expert haha

So they can be run in four different modes

1. Connected to USB 2 on idrive just via HSD cable ( provides idrive change rate .5amps or 5 watts)
2. Connected to USB 2 on idrive, HSD cable , 12volt feed from fuse 129 via 0.85mm2 cable ( provides 3 amps , 15 watts )
3. Connected to Optional BMW USB hub, via thicker HSD cable with 0.5mm2 wires inside ( Provides 2.1 amps or 12 watts of charging )
4. Connected to Optional USB hub , 12 volt feed from spare fuse position on 0.85mm2 ( provides 3 amps , 15 watts )

There is also a built in back light for the USB C , so I'll feed it from a piggy back connection from Armrest console light.

Just planning on option 2 for now.

My plan, run new 0.85mm2 wire from Fuse 129 in boot fusebox to armrest position. Run new 0.85mm2 earth wire from Armrest to an earth combe behind left passenger set bolster.

Run spare wire  0.5mm2 wire and earth to fuse box similar to above to give USB hub options 

Run 1.5mm2 wire from spare position fuse box position to armrest for 12volt accessory point , same size wire from for earth to factory earth point.

Need to find wire with

Red with black stripe 085.mm2 for factory colour 

Brown 0.85mm2 cable for standard negative earth colour

And 12volt accessory wire as I did for boot outlet.

 

 

Edited September 5 by Neal

[balancerider 764]

@Neal @Dogballs - has your app stopped working completely? Mine no longer updates fuel level. Now running 4.9.2, got a message from a software development group I’m involved in saying app no longer supported for F-series vehicles

[Dogballs 115]

Still working for me as of last night. 
(app 4.9.2)
 

Edited October 10 by Dogballs

[Neal 545]

The app is hosted out of Florida apparently, Might be in DR mode at the moment.

[Neal 545]

On the usb front a moved the car cradle usb connection and replaced the keyed blue plastic with a black one. Tried the USB C adapter off the back of idrive USB 2 . But not working. I haven’t added the +12 Ve and ground connector yet, need to run a power feed from the rear fuse box by the look of it. I also tried the passive white USB adapter and the USB audio came up on iPhone 13. But couldn’t get the iPhone 16 to work via it. 
 

I’ll run the power and earth wires for the USBc adapter and try again , but suspect there’s something up with idrive and usb c based iPhones. 
 

 

[kwhelan 241]

https://www.imore.com/iphone/best-wireless-carplay-adapter-year

I still recommend something like this, I've got the carplay unit albeit not in a bmw currently but it would solve alot of the issues, it works faultlessly although takes about 15 seconds to connect and bring the phone screen up in car. See the iphone 16 now has 45w wireless charging and next year they are bringing out a whole new generation carplay although it doesn't appear bmw have signed on yet

https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/13/apple-next-generation-carplay-recap/

 

 

[Neal 545]

Decided not to put in a rear  console / back seat USB BMW port.

But I did put in a universal pd / usb charger. This one has up to 65 watts for USB c and 18 watts on usb b. Handy for rear passenger for charging devices and also will charge work laptop if needed.

Was going through BMW TIS wiring diagrams  and this is what I’ve learnt.

Terminal 30b feeds all 12 volt outlets. 30b is enabled when the car is considered occupied and will run until car is either locked or will stay active for 8 -20 mins if the car is left unlocked after parked. After that it powers down. Was thinking about this as don’t want parasitic power draw from usb charger.

For the rear console charger my car didn’t have a rear 12 volt outlet. In the factory wiring the rear outlet ifs piggybacked off the front hidden 12volt outlet. However with the f30 / f80 wiring looms there is almost no provisioning of wiring for accessories that went in the cars original build sheet. I needed to run wires for this.

So , got some 1.5mm2 wire left over from adding the boot 12 volt outlet. Wrapped it in Tesa tape and rather than pull console apart to route I just used curtain wire to feed it from rear of console to dashboard.

I popped the rear console trim down, drilled a 30 mm hole and mounted the charger.

Works well for quicker charging of phone / tablets / laptop.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 21 by Neal

[Neal 545]

G20 USB C retrofit. Adding power to G20 USB  c charger retrofit.

This involves running power from rear fuse box to centre console. Also replacing the primary earth point comb behind rear left seat bolster with a larger one with more connection points.

Ill also take the opportunity to run a power and earth feed for a factory usb hub. Undecided on the retrofit at this stage. But will make it easy should I go that way.

Ordered connector parts via BMW dealer. Roughly $40 for comb / earth pin connectors and battery box insert connectors.

Found  some red / black 0.5mm2 cable ( correct colour ) via Repco. Used 0.75mm2 for brown earth because handy gauge  to have size and had to buy a 20m reel. 
 

Both single g20 USB c adapter and usb hub only need 0.5mm2 cable for power and earth. The wire for the backlight of the USBc is a 0.3mm cable and I had the correct colour from a spare second door loom that I had during the door speaker part of this project. 
 

[Neal 545]

Ran loom through car using factory route.
 

Was out of earth points behind left rear seat bolster so added the larger earth comb that is used in BMW F3x and F8x . Suspect it’s for models with more factory option. I found the earth sockets seem to be a one way item so rather than taking them off a sandwiched the two combs together  and added two earth connections after crimping on BMW connectors.

Routed two 12 +ve cables to fuse box. Turned fuse box over and removed lock tab and pulled connector for fuse area 124 - 129. This section is associated with Idrive items such as hk amp fan , dvd stacker , tv module , telephone cradle , usb hub ( fuse 129 ) . Crimped on two new leaf contacts and click inserted into positions 124 & 129. Put connector and fuse box back into place. Ironically those fuse positions had fuses even though the car didnt those options. This fuse block run off terminal 30b so is power runs when the car is occupied. Power is tuned off when car is locked or after 8-20 mins if car is left unlocked such as when left in garage. So no worries about parasitic draw.

The USB C has a backlight on pin 3 of its connector. The closest source for a light circuit is the rear console armrest led bunker light. The connector for it is behind the rear seat air vent trim. Used a pin removal tool on mqs socket. Crimped a new one with positive feed to USB c adapter.

 

[Neal 545]

Tidied rear armrest wiring and put all trim back into place.

Tested USB C adapter with iPhone 16 which is USB C. Charging came up straight away . Phone also came up as USB entry on snapin adapter. Turned off CarPlay and tested , USB audio and Spotify app via USB c adapter , all working correctly. Charging is faster too via USB c adapter. 15 watts so more useful.

So now I can run my 256gig thumb drive  with quite a few lossless encoded albums off the usb b , Anything lossless audio wise on the iPhone can be played via usb c, handy for Apple Music lossless. Otherwise wifi CarPlay for anything else.

 

 

 

Parts used.

Fusebox leaf connectors for fuse Area 124-129

2x 61131378906 Double leaf spring contact 0,5-1,0 MM²

Earth Comb connectors

2x Socket terminal 61131387142 0,75-1,0MM²

F30/F80 larger Earth Comb and Cover

1x BMW Insulation Housing, Fan Conn - 61138364551
1x BMW Comb Type Connector - 61138353739

USB C adaptor and Lighting connector socket pins

4x 61131393724 Socket terminal MQS 0,5-0,75MM²

Connectors , the secondhand USB C adapter came with connectors and USB and power connectors.


Wire , 0.5mm2 for Power and ground needed. 0.3mm2 for lighting wire.

Edited November 26 by Neal