Help with annual leave

[Wom 0]

Hi

My boss is trying very hard to force me into taking my annual leave as apparently my balance of leave is too high.

I currently have 6 days annual leave entitled to me.

On the 24th of September 2009 I will have an extra 20 days added onto that balance (my anniversary date with this company).

My manager is telling me I have to take a total of 20 days annual leave by the end of December 2009.

That really doesn't sound right to me and I'm putting up one heck of a fight with my boss.

But I'm basing my arguments with her solely on my own knowledge of the Holidays Act, and I'm not confident in my knowledge as most of it is just stuff that my mates have told me.

What I would like to know, from someone who is clued up on this area, or has dealt with this situation before ... what are my rights and what can my employer force me to take?

Cheers

[Mark 178]

They want to make you take leave because unused leave appears a debt on their books.

It's paid leave, so why not just take a holiday? Or, if you like you could simply take Mondays or Fridays off for the next few months and enjoy the luxury of 3 day weekends. That's what a lot of colleagues at my workplace are doing.

[Shady 0]

By the end of this year, I will be entitled to approx 30days - as I hardly ever take days off (not even sick days - I have nearly 2weeks owing). My Boss told me he is going to give me a week, maye 2, off soon. As I do not need that many days for the Xmas/New Year breakup - I will still have about a week left next year to play with if I chose to. He isnt giving me the whole lot, just some - otherwise I wont have any for the Holiday break. He isnt forcing me either, he jst told me he'd like me to take it - which I said "hell yes". Just waiting for him to say when!

But forcing you take the whole lot, sounds a bit unfair! Tell your boss, youre happy to take a week, and that will leave you with 20days - how long do you get for the Holiday break? We get 4 weeks (5days paid per week like normal as if we were working).

But Im sure someone on here will know you complete rights. Maybe ring the Labour Dept?

[bravo 35]

If it's long service leave (special leave entitlement) they can require you to take it all at once. It should be written into the company policy that this is the case.

However, they cannot force you to take it by a certain date. You get to choose when you take it. (unless it is written into your contract).

PS as it is long service leave, it is not covered by the Holidays Act.

It's extra leave. I would negotiate a suitable time when to take it, and enjoy it.

[Apex 693]

I was under the impression that employers enforces this due to ACC and possible legal threats.

Say Billy Bob refuses to take time off but all of a sudden falls I’ll or does an injury, it can quickly be turned around on the business for not “proving†enough time off or for “over working†Billy Bob.

[Wom 0]

It's just standard annual leave, I'm not entitled to long service leave for another 8 years

My understanding of the law is that I have 12 months from the date that my leave is granted to me (in my case the 12 months starts from the 24th of September 2009) until my employer can "force" me into taking that leave.

My problem is that they are trying to force me into taking leave that I don't even have yet and it's going to leave me with 6 days leave from Jan 2010 to end of Sep 2010.

I've just been on annual leave for 4 days and got back on Tuesday this week ... I don't mind taking leave - when I actually have a balance of leave to take that is.

[Braeden320 0]

Hi

My boss is trying very hard to force me into taking my annual leave as apparently my balance of leave is too high.

I currently have 6 days annual leave entitled to me.

On the 24th of September 2009 I will have an extra 20 days added onto that balance (my anniversary date with this company).

My manager is telling me I have to take a total of 20 days annual leave by the end of December 2009.

Cheers

If it's long service leave (special leave entitlement) they can require you to take it all at once. It should be written into the company policy that this is the case.

However, they cannot force you to take it by a certain date. You get to choose when you take it. (unless it is written into your contract).

PS as it is long service leave, it is not covered by the Holidays Act.

It's extra leave. I would negotiate a suitable time when to take it, and enjoy it.

What makes you think its long service leave?

20 Days = 4 weeks which is the minimum amount an employee is entitiled to for each full year of employment. Some companies show it accure thought out the year, and others apply it after 1 year of service and then every year thereafter. When useing this method it is generally applied and showen in the month or day you first started employment with the company.

You can take your annual leave when YOU choose.

Another option is to ask for it to be paid out to you, alot of employers do this.

Go to Whitcouls and buy a copy of the holidays act if you want to fight it, or just take a holiday.

Quotes from The Holidays Act 2003

"For example if an employee started work on the 1st of June 2006, they will be entitled to four weeks holidays on 1 June, 2007. Or if they started on the 3rd of February 2007, they will be entitled to four weeks holidays on 3 February, 2008"

"Examples of how four weeks annual holidays works in practice

Sian has an entitlement date of 27 November 2007. On that date she will become entitled to:

four weeks annual holidays. Sian will become entitled to a further four weeks annual holidays on each entitlement date after that."

Edited August 19, 2009 by braeden.

[JaseNZ 53]

I am guilty of doing that at the moment with my staff. To help get labour recovery down I am asking staff to take annual leave. It is written in their contract though that the employer is able to give them 28 days notice that they have to take annual leave.

I try all possible ways for them to set their own annual leave but in them failing to do so I set their annual leave date's for them.

[pjay 8]

Happens in Telecom all the time. Dont know about your contract, but in mine it states that if my balance is over 20 days the company can request I take leave, but at my convenience.

Its time off work, I don't see the problem. Relax for a week or 2 in the sun

[Wom 0]

But if I take the leave they are trying to force me to take, that leaves me with 6 days annual leave total from the 1st of Jan 2010 to the 24th of September 2010.

I've just got off the phone with my boss (she's 4 floors above me), I've told her that her request is unreasonable considering that it would leave me with only 6 days leave for most of next year.

I ended the phone conversation with "maybe the Department of Labour would like to hear about this".

I can appreciate that they need me to take leave, but I didn't think they could make me reduce my balance down anything less than 15 days.

[edit] I don't mind taking leave, I just don't like the thought of only having 6 days for the first 10 months of next year.

What if I wanted to go on holiday in May next year? I'd be screwed if I wanted to go for more than a week.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Wom

[bravo 35]

Sorry braeden, but you're not quite right on the payout bit.

I apologise for assuming it was long service leave - you did talk about the anniversary date and I assumed you meant that it was an additional entitlement.

Braeden is incorrect in saying they can pay you out. This is explicitly against the law and companies that do this can be prosecuted under s16 or forced to allow the employee to take the paid holidays even though they've already paid them out.

Don't waste money buying a copy of the Holidays act. All nz legislation is available free online at www.legislation.govt.nz

They can only force you to take annual leave if the company is closing down (say for the xmas holidays), or if you are unable to reach an agreement with your employer as to when to take them.

(s19 of the Act)

PS - so technically they can force you to under the act as long as they give you 2 weeks notice, but it's rather unfair.

Why not offer to take 2 weeks or something?

[Braeden320 0]

But if I take the leave they are trying to force me to take, that leaves me with 6 days annual leave total from the 1st of Jan 2010 to the 24th of September 2010.

I've just got off the phone with my boss (she's 4 floors above me), I've told her that her request is unreasonable considering that it would leave me with only 6 days leave for most of next year.

I ended the phone conversation with "maybe the Department of Labour would like to hear about this".

I can appreciate that they need me to take leave, but I didn't think they could make me reduce my balance down anything less than 15 days.

[edit] I don't mind taking leave, I just don't like the thought of only having 6 days for the first 10 months of next year.

What if I wanted to go on holiday in May next year? I'd be screwed if I wanted to go for more than a week.

Right letters or emails instead of phone calls, then you have a documented history if it goes pear Shaped.

I can see your point, and also theres. Alot of companies are doing this to avoid making people redundant.

Why try just 10 days not 20? Meet them halfway

[Braeden320 0]

Sorry braeden, but you're not quite right on the payout bit.

I apologise for assuming it was long service leave - you did talk about the anniversary date and I assumed you meant that it was an additional entitlement.

Braeden is incorrect in saying they can pay you out. This is explicitly against the law and companies that do this can be prosecuted under s16 or forced to allow the employee to take the paid holidays even though they've already paid them out.

Don't waste money buying a copy of the Holidays act. All nz legislation is available free online at www.legislation.govt.nz

They can only force you to take annual leave if the company is closing down (say for the xmas holidays), or if you are unable to reach an agreement with your employer as to when to take them.

(s19 of the Act)

My bad, Just no a few people that have been paid out. Wasn't saying or implying it was legal

[Old_Skool_Bmw 0]

How about you meet your boss in the middle somewhere??

Maybe suggest to her that you are willing to take 1-2 weeks of leave before the end of the year however you want to ensure that you also have an adequate amount of leave saved up so that you can have another holiday sometime in 2010 when YOU want to take it.

Just like your boss doesn't want all your leave showing as a debt on her books, you don't want to be screwed next year when you mates decide to take a 2 week holiday to the mountain and you can't go because you have 6 days leave left.

Laurence

[Wom 0]

Yea I've backed up my phone conversation with a rather large email confirming my position.

I'd be happy to take 10 days before the end of the year, so my balance will be left at 15 days.

But when I mentioned that to my boss, she said that I have to take 20 days before 31st of December 2009.

I'd be willing to compromise, but she isn't.

I'm quite sure that she doesn't like me - maybe it's because I actually stand up for myself unlike most other staff around here ... gotta luv women on a power trip.

If she doesn't back down, I'll give the Department of Labour a call and see what they have to say about it.

[pjay 8]

Maybe citizens advice Bureau 1st.

They're good for petty cases like this. Not saying you're petty in any way or the case isn't important, just the case as a whole is a tad unnecessary. You're right- compromise could solve this very easily

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

From the Holiday's Act 2003

18. Taking of annual holidays

(1) An employer must allow an employee to take annual holidays within 12 months after the date on which the employee's entitlement to the holidays arose.

(2) If an employee elects to do so, the employer must allow the employee to take at least 2 weeks of his or her annual holidays entitlement in a continuous period.

(3) When annual holidays are to be taken by the employee is to be agreed between the employer and employee.

(4) An employer must not unreasonably withhold consent to an employee's request to take annual holidays.

19.When employee may be required to take annual holidays

(1) An employer may require an employee to take annual holidays if—

(a) the employer and employee are unable to reach agreement under section 18(3) as to when the employee will take his or her annual holidays; or

( section 32 (which relates to closedown periods) applies.

(2) If subsection (1) applies, an employer must give the employee not less than 14 days' notice of the requirement to take the annual holidays.

Check out the Dept Of Labour web-site it's full of good reference material like this. So, whilst point 18.(3) is on your side, if you can't agree with your boss then provided that she gives you two weeks notice, you can be told exactly where and when you are to take your leave. section 19. (1)(a).

From experience I would advise against getting the DoL involved, even if the law is on your side, in the long run it is still better to be seen to be co-operating with your boss. I would suggest you go back with a list of dates that suit you, and say that is what you are happy to take.

[Wom 0]

Cheers for the advice everyone

am trying to reach a compromise with my boss but she's not exactly co-operating

will definitely try CAB before DoL ... to be honest I didn't even think of trying CAB

[edit] - update, my manager is standing hard and fast by "you must take 20 days annual leave by the 31st of December 2009"

Going to ring CAB when I get the chance, probably tomorrow some stage.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Wom

[Wom 0]

So I've been booked in for an off-site meeting on Monday afternoon.

Manager is refusing to even discuss this any further until the meeting.

Now I get to dwell on this for the next 4 days

Anyone in Wellington have any office jobs going?

This is just one of several absolutely rubbish things that this company has tried to do to me in the last year and I'm absolutely sick of it.

There is never any compromise here, it's always you do what they say or they make your life miserable until you give into them.

That is not my idea of a good work environment ... the only reason why I'm still here is because I have a high level of job security and flexible start / finish hours.

[pjay 8]

What do you do exactly?

[Wom 0]

insurance administration team leader

[str8_6 275]

Hopefully your boss isn't logging your internet usage... especially on Bimmersport during the day

[Sick Puppy 1]

[...]

This is just one of several absolutely rubbish things that this company has tried to do to me in the last year and I'm absolutely sick of it.

There is never any compromise here, it's always you do what they say or they make your life miserable until you give into them.

That is not my idea of a good work environment ...

[...]

My 2c... To keep the peace, prepare for war- make a list of the things they've tried to do in a work diary.

While you've been requested to attend a meeting off-site, who is it with? Your manager may not want to discuss it any further, but you have a right to know who you'll be meeting with and what about exactly- I recommend you request a bit more detail about this meeting (assuming you haven't already).

A friend of mine had an employment dispute in her first week as a manager (deputy manager wanted her job and wasn't happy about not getting it), and pretty much half the head office flew down to 'sort' it- not a nice time for her. While I'd like to think your meeting will be amicable and reasonable, it only takes one arsey manager, backed up by a flash lawyer and a area manager with no idea about the law to ruin your day... just sayin'. Try not to stress, keep your head about you, and have a read over your contract and relevant legislation before the meeting and you should be fine. You seem pretty reasonable about this, and so long as you convey that during the meeting, they should be able to use some common sense (hopefully! lol)- but don't let it become a battle of wills or an argument.

If you think it will be one of 'those' meetings, I'd suggest taking in a tape/digital recorder and request it be recorded- they could say no, but the fact you asked would normally make people sit up and mind their P's and Q's a bit more (don't forget to provide them with a copy if they do though). Regardless of whether you use a recorder or not, take notes. However, if you're really bricking it or think the knives are out, you could consider taking legal representatives with you, although that's overkill at the mo IMO.

Try not to dwell on this- they're being w@nkers and your feeling like crap is pretty much how they want you to feel.

Good luck!

Edited August 20, 2009 by Sick Puppy

[Old_Skool_Bmw 0]

insurance administration team leader

which company dude??

(PM me if you like)

Laurence

Edited August 20, 2009 by Old_Skool_Bmw

[Wom 0]

Hopefully your boss isn't logging your internet usage... especially on Bimmersport during the day

lol yea I was thinking about that last night

Old_Skool - I've pm'd you

Kinda disappointed that I have to wait until next Monday afternoon to even talk about this with my boss (she's flat out refusing to discuss it any further until the meeting) ... but at the same time I'm glad that I have the next 3 days to prepare.

[edit] - have just put through a request for the 4 days after Labour Day, so hopefully that will go down well with my manager

Edited August 20, 2009 by Wom