Ugh Premium Selection warranty Crap!

[*Glenn* 854]

And eat it...try eating a MAF sensor

[Greg111 13]

The horse or the person operating the horse?

[Grant 4]

I'm starting to wonder with the new cars, is the lifetime of a new car just the first 3 years while its under warranty ? Not just BMW, but most Euro cars start shitting themselves gradualy after the first 4 years...some start earlier though.

Of course they only class lifetime as the "warranty lifetime". Remember that most first world countries have a much more modern fleet of cars on the road than NZ. However due to how expensive cars are in NZ, a smaller proportion of the population can afford to renew their car with a brand new one every three years, whereas here, nearly everyone I know drives a car that is less than 5 years old.

Therefore there in no incentive for manufacturers to build a product that actually lasts any longer than 3 years, or at a stretch 5.

The way that companies like Hyundai are able to compete and gain such a huge market share here is that they are actually offering amazing warranties, that basically involve no out of pocket costs for the owner (including servicing) for the first three years of ownership, and then a standard warranty lasting 5 years/100,000 miles.

[E30-323ti 66]

That HQ wagon on TM is looking more appealing....

Never thought I'd use 'HQ' and 'Appealing' in the same sentence

[rant]

As far as the whole; BMW didn't make the alternator, to; the service department is another entity too the sales...

If you buy a 'BMW' from 'BMW' I don't give a rats that BMW AG decided to use the cheapest alternator at the time of manufacture or that the sales department made their profit and now the service guys' want to make theirs.

You bought a new/used BMW with a BMW warranty from BMW, they sure as heck should stand by their product and the BRAND, its not our problem as end users that AC Delco made the alternator or the service guy is getting the run-around from the 3rd party warranty crowd c/o the sales team.

This kind of thing is happening more often (internally within large organisations, such as BMW here) were no one is taking responsibility and there is no accountability, just a bunch of clowns pointing saying it's not my fault, they forget they all have the same logo on their shirts and actually represent the BRAND not their own little profit centre, and the one that suffers is the guy that has forked out the coin in the first place.

[/rant]

TGIF and a long weekend in Wgtn

[Grant 4]

You do realise that BMW doesn't actually make alternators - there are loads of components within a car that are made by third party suppliers - almost all sensors are, alternators, batteries, ancilliary components, suspension arms, shocks, springs, seat motors, just to name a few (just because it came in a pretty BMW box doesn't mean that BMW actually made the part, more often then not it's just a rebranded item that are shared throughout the car manufacturers - I remember looking up a part that was on a BMW only to find that it was shared with a VW and you could pick one up from the VW parts department for less than 1/4 of what BMW was charging). If anybody is to blame I'd blame the third party suppliers.

This is no excuse. I'm sure that when BMW goes out to the third party suppliers, they provide the third party suppliers with a list specifications, and performance requirements that BMW expects the product to meet.

If they choose to use a cheaper/generic part that doesn't live up to BMW's perceived quality level, then that is BMW's fault, not the third party supplier. They are just supplying what the client wants. If the product does not meet the specification that BMW requested or paid for, then that is an issue between BMW and the supplier, and the car purchaser should not be impacted at all.

[westy 614]

Further more, if you are a BMW service agent connected to a BMW dealership, then it is your problem to sort. Noones holding a gun to their heads. Cant handle the heat, get out the bloody kitchen.

I should say; I'm talking about those who create the policies, not those working on the floor.

Dont wanna give Greg too hard a time.

[zenetti 0]

Buy a Lexus... FREE Servicing up to 140km. Even if you buy it 2nd hand from a Lexus dealership you still get the free servicing. A mate just took in his RX and it came back with FOUR new Bridgestones, NEW pads, NEW rotors and it didn't cost him a cent!

Edited January 21, 2011 by zenetti

[M3_Power 636]

This is no excuse. I'm sure that when BMW goes out to the third party suppliers, they provide the third party suppliers with a list specifications, and performance requirements that BMW expects the product to meet.

I agree totally - I was merely illustrating the point that sometimes it's not always a BMW design issue - but a third party supply issue (which BMW is ultimately responsible and liable for). I never said that BMW shouldn't be liable for a faulty 3rd party part which they have commissioned (maybe I came across that way, but wasn't what I was illustrating).

Agree with the Lexus comment!!

Edited January 21, 2011 by M3_Power

[*Glenn* 854]

it didn't cost him a cent!

Yes it did... it's built into the purchase price

Edit: It cost the original (1st owner)

Edited January 21, 2011 by *Glenn*

[39KiwiTouring 2]

Question mechanicals are becoming more reliable even since the early ninties, valve grinds and, throwing legs out of beds happens but not to epidemic levels. Modern/new cars have complicated electronics, most of them do really. Is this for the reason that componentry and modules talking to each other is in anticipation for electrifying and battery powered technology trials, for future non fuel motive powered vehicles?, the dealth of the industrial age. Or is it to cause problems for vehicles therefore service departments and dealerships to remain viable, plenty of talk on here about the life of a lightbulb, 5 yearrs for a car etc.

[Grant 4]

I agree totally - I was merely illustrating the point that sometimes it's not always a BMW design issue - but a third party supply issue (which BMW is ultimately responsible and liable for). I never said that BMW shouldn't be liable for a faulty 3rd party part which they have commissioned (maybe I came across that way, but wasn't what I was illustrating).

Agree with the Lexus comment!!

Yup, fair call

[Greg111 13]

Yes it did... it's built into the purchase price

You buy the Toyota oh i mean Lexus for this much or you buy the Toyota oops again i mean Lexus with a "free service plan for this much.

[*Glenn* 854]

You buy the Toyota oh i mean Lexus for this much or you buy the Toyota oops again i mean Lexus with a "free service plan for this much.

Exactly

[zenetti 0]

You buy the Toyota oh i mean Lexus for this much or you buy the Toyota oops again i mean Lexus with a "free service plan for this much.

Exactly

Sure... but I bet it still works out cheaper, and less hassle than a comparable BMW ( waits for smart ass replies)

Also, name another manufacturer that includes parts in their service plan

Edited January 21, 2011 by zenetti

[M3_Power 636]

You buy the Toyota oh i mean Lexus for this much or you buy the Toyota oops again i mean Lexus with a "free service plan for this much.

Sure... but I bet it still works out cheaper, and less hassle than a comparable BMW ( waits for smart ass replies)

All good and dandy until the accelerator gets stuck and you can't stop

Edited January 21, 2011 by M3_Power

[CamB 48]

To be fair its possible that in 5 years the complex technology in new cars will be considered quite simple and a good independent will be able to deal with them (and even the coding issues today might be overtaken by better technology etc).

I mean, anyone can buy some pretty cool electronic tools on Trademe these days. BMW appear to lock it all down quite tight, but on VWs (for instance) you can apparently get right in there (for better or worse). No - its not for the most up to date versions but I wouldn't bet against that changing.

Edited January 21, 2011 by CamB

[Grant 4]

Yes it did... it's built into the purchase price

Edit: It cost the original (1st owner)

Ahh, but let me put it this way to you. If you had the choice of two 'premium' brand sedan cars (don't think about particular brands), with the same specs, and with the same purchase price (for arguments sake). The difference being; one comes with a full no-cost service, more comprehensive warranty than the other.

Which would you buy?

BTW - this is a very good conversation/debate, and what the site has lacked (as the posts are reasoned, and there have been no personal attacks). See kids, it can be done!

Edited January 21, 2011 by Grant

[*Glenn* 854]

Ahh, but let me put it this way to you. If you had the choice of two 'premium' brand sedan cars (don't think about particular brands), with the same specs, and with the same purchase price (for arguments sake). The difference being; one comes with a full no-cost service, more comprehensive warranty than the other.

Which would you buy?

The Jappa... thats why I have always driven Nissan (for me) Honda Toyota & Suzuki for wifey. No money in fixing Jappas... Euros give me a lifestyle

[Grant 4]

The Jappa... thats why I have always driven Nissan (for me) Honda Toyota & Suzuki for wifey. No money in fixing Jappas... Euros give me a lifestyle

I appreciate that, and agree fully.

It is also the reason that we have a Subaru Outback wagon, that has 172,000 miles on it, and is still 100% mechanically and cosmetically functional, and shows no sign of having any problems.

[*Glenn* 854]

My 2004 Xtrail has cost me 1 camshaft position sensor, oil & filters... nothing else in 65,000km apart from 2 sets of tyres and 2 wheel alignments. The wifes current Suzuki Swift has had normal sevices and 4 tyres in 70,000km. I've spent over $20,000 on my Toy

Edited January 21, 2011 by *Glenn*

[Palazzo 438]

I think the cost of servicing newer model cars has become outrageous, the R32 has to have the gearbox fluid etc changed every 4 years at a reputed cost of $800-1000, VW fluid only. I enquired about cam belt changes on an Alfa V6, every 5 years it must be done at a cost of $3-3.5k, with these sorts of prices, the cars become worth nothing second hand.

And to the OP, I think the situation is totally outrageous and you should complain (politely) until you get satisfaction, it sounds like the biggest load of nonsense I've ever heard.

"We'll fix your car under our warranty, but we may ruin it, which will be your problem" Pardon?

[39KiwiTouring 2]

You would hope that third party componentry which BOSCH, is a major player, macpherson etc are all quality controlled and packaged into a body shell deisgned by designers and apporved by the board by the respective marques is the case. Certainly adds weight that the older the car BMW in this case best to stick to the pre E46's at this stage unless you are in the know.

When you think about it panels, and engine block and the dash board, is unique to that model most other parts are interchangable or made by third parties, makes sense, designing 10,000 parts from scratch everytime a model is released we coudn't afford to buy them new. Barina spark new for $17000 testimount to that.

Plenty of shared technology and expertise should make things easier in saying all that.

[*Glenn* 854]

With world economies changing, car manufacturers will suffer as they keep building dealership protectionism into their cars. Alot of this nonsence is exactly this...

[Grant 4]

Glenn, this is a question for you. How hard/expensive is it for you to keep up with the servicing/repairs of the newer cars (regardless of brand)? I'm not talking about the physical repair work, but the cost of having the right equipment, and having you and your staff kept up to date with using it?

Also, what do you personally prefer; the actual 'old fashioned' mechanical work, or the more modern technical approach to repair work?

[39KiwiTouring 2]

protectionism alright.

Glenn be honest in this answear do you reccomend people service their vehicles (basic engine oil and filter) every 10-20,000k's or what ever the manufacture reccomends. Or when the vehicle blackens it's oil could be 12,00k or could be 35,000k before the oil discolours, depending on factors engine wear milage etc.

Excluding fuel, air filters etc.

My XR6 hasn't had an oil change for nearly 30k now and the oil is still very reddish/brown.