"Best Road Tyre?"

[ray ruthven 0]

I read the Wheels and Tyre section frequently and enjoy the debates, knowledge and amount of tyres people have used! so the question should be simple - if price was not an issue what tyre would you pick for a road car - not knowing it's behaviour to different tyre types?

More specifically I have an older non-BMW (although I have owned 5 BMW's including a track car and currently a 325) that has been significantly upgraded and now runs 245/45 - 17's. It is about the size weight and performance of a 5 series. If I ranked goals it would be road feel and steering response 1st, closely followed by road harshness/ride, noise, dry grip and wet grip last. I have tried a few tyres in the last few years with quite different, but dissappointing results - however price has always been a factor. So if I want to get the best out of the car what is 'The best tyre"?

Look forward to reading some comments.

RDR

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

Bridgestone RE-series assymetrics

[hybrid 1043]

You pay for what you get with tires.

Michelen PSS or if you want more longevity without loosing out on much performance then PP3.. Mine still look feel brand new on the 5 series after 1 year. This is on a 1800kg car.

[Apex 693]

Cant say I buy tyres that meet what you are after so cant offer much advice.

Everyone will generally tell you whatever they have fitted to their car is best.

I have been reading the reviews online and normally choose a tyre based on scores in multiple tests, user reviews, price and now UTQG ratings, have a brand new set going on today so its all quite fresh.

Tirerack have links to some good reviews, its best to read multiple reviews to get a good idea, one thing tyre testers don't account for is tyre wear so keep that in mind.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testSearch.jsp

One thing to look out for on new generation performance Asymmetric's is the UTQG ratting, I have got quite familiar with this lately after just fitting the third set of tyres to my car in one year, it seems a lot of the latest tyres are so soft and compromised in the pursuit of performance they are not economical choices unless you you have 1 million dollars, some are not far off a semi slick compound without the stiff sidewalls.

The Bridgestone RE Asymmetric for example are good, very good, they are fitted to some of the top ratted cars in the world, they are as good as road tyre gets sub $1000 and not motorsport focused... but they have a UTQG of 140 so will last sub 10,000km on NZ roads if driven reasonably enthusiastically.

[Neal 544]

Might pay to see what brands are around in your size before doing a down selection. In the Bridgestone range it looks like the Re002 is the only tyre in your size which is a good trye at a good price. However , there is more grip as you go up the range.

Brigdestone NZ only carries a certian size range within the Potenza series for wider / lower profile tyres.If they don't have your size they will order in for your (3 month process through Bridestone NZ 0800 number) However , since the earthquake last year it's been hard to back order for them. BNZ tried hard to get me a set of re-11 in 235/40/18 & 265/30/18's

Ended up importing a set of re-11's from tirerack for $2300 (NZ would have been $1800 through firestone if stocked)

In terms of re-11's high grip dry (trackday) Wet and cold weather grip is good, good steering response , meduim noise (white noise sound) Take about 1000 kms before they are at their best.

[Apex 693]

That is a good point. Out of the 7 or so options I was looking at only one was available locally, I have just had to do the same and ordered a set through Tirerack.com as I could not get the tyres I wanted in NZ without waiting 5 weeks.. also nice is that they cost half as much through Tirerack as they would have buying from a dealer.

The RE002 looks to be a popular "aftermarket" tyre on a few forums I am on, they represent great performance for the money.

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

i did last years track day on RE002s and i was throwing the 5 at corners trying to keep the momentum up and always turned fine etc. the kingstars on the back different story though lol got tailhappy in a 520i Auto

[Jo Blogs 11]

i did last years track day on RE002s and i was throwing the 5 at corners trying to keep the momentum up and always turned fine etc. the kingstars on the back different story though lol got tailhappy in a 520i Auto

+1 on the Bridgestone RE's

I have always run RE050a's RFT on the BMW's, Even my old E39 has RFT.

Have RE002's on the Porsche but can't really justify the extra on a road going daily driver.

It came with Conti Sport Contact 3's but they were soooooo noisy.

Very sticky in any condition.

Edited July 31, 2012 by Winckel

[ray ruthven 0]

Sorry for the last post - hit the wrong button.

Thanks for the replies so far, although I must admit a little surprised.

I was expecting to hear the praise of Continentals, Michelins and Pirelli's with maybe a goodyear F1 thrown in - instead there is a lot of talk of 'best value' etc. Is that because there really is little difference with these high price options (all supposedly avaialable at Hyper)? or am I missing something? I must admit I was not considering wear as a factor as only a weekend car but 10,000km's is a surprise.

The tyres I have used are; Dunlop Sport Maxx current tire- quite good at times but very tempermental, need to keep a good track on the pressures and responds horribly to load changes on the front (accel & braking)

Falken 912 - just horrible, unpredictable and very loose.

Sport Contact (2 I think), nice feel but very coarse and noisy

But significantly the best, Sumitomo HTRZII, (I put on the car before bringing it in from the states) good blend of everything, great feel but so so in the wet. Only real problem was they wore quite unevenly.

Any more comments would be welcome, but with Hybrids comments and tire rack looks as if the Michelin PSS would get a top vote?

RDR1

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

bear in mind a large proportion of our members here possibly canot see the point of spending the $600+ per corner that continentals and perellis are for road tyres, you certainly don't get 2,3,4x the tyre for it. RE002s were $270odd from memory

[ray ruthven 0]

bear in mind a large proportion of our members here possibly canot see the point of spending the $600+ per corner that continentals and perellis are for road tyres, you certainly don't get 2,3,4x the tyre for it. RE002s were $270odd from memory

I hear what you are saying and that's what I am trying to understand, what is the benefit. On the other hand if you have spent money modifying the car, shocks, roll bars, springs etc I am frustrated not to be able to get the full benefit for the sake of the tyres. It's like adding cams, manifolds etc and putting in a rev limiter!

I must admit I'm not convinced what to do yet and the RE002's do seem to be racking up the votes. Shame you can't get a free test!

RDR1

[Jo Blogs 11]

I hear what you are saying and that's what I am trying to understand, what is the benefit. On the other hand if you have spent money modifying the car, shocks, roll bars, springs etc I am frustrated not to be able to get the full benefit for the sake of the tyres. It's like adding cams, manifolds etc and putting in a rev limiter!

I must admit I'm not convinced what to do yet and the RE002's do seem to be racking up the votes. Shame you can't get a free test!

RDR1

Pirellis & Contis are great in Europe. But our roads are different here, I have spent the money numerous times on these two brands only to be disappointed.

Sometimes the dearest is not best.

Some tire shops will guarantee the tires to be to your liking for a month or your money back, Just ask.

[Apex 693]

My car come with Continental's OEM and they are without question the best road tyres I have ever used, they simply worked great everywhere and did everything amazing... unfortunately they only lasted 10,000km and cost near $900 each and whilst they were unbelievably good, I cant afford to be buying $5,000 worth of tyres each year.

The latest set of tyres I have brought and had fitted today were the Good Year Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2, from what I have read and what I can make out they are the best tyre available for my car, $560 each is still not cheap but beats the cost of the Continentals and with a 300 wear rating I should see 20,000km out of them. Cant wait to test them out.

[Neal 544]

Similar opinon here on tyres , Not nesscarly fused with Country of orgin with tires. More about the right tyre for the right vechile. Got out of Euro tires on the advice of one of our local mad hill climbers a few years back. (mid mounted Mk1 V8 escort driver)

Looks something like this

BMW Bridgestone Re-11 best road tyre so far (have had re001's , Yokohama and Conti's which all had good grip and better ride comfit)

Mini Road Yokohama A032r's A008's (10 inch wheel limitation) Track Dunlop slicks

Bike / Sprints / Hillclimbing / Dunlop D20x'gp's / qualifiers

Check out the tyre rack survey results and decide if your after Dot rated / extreme performance / or performance tyres for the way you drive your car.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/index.jsp

[swordfish 30]

Goodyear F1 Asymmetric 2 are amazing! If you'll buy them you'll have everything… Very quiet, comfortable ride. Insane dry and wet grip and faster stopping distance. All F1s are great, but Asymmetric 2 are truly on the other level from their predecessors!!! It was tyre of the year as far as I remember.

[Apex 693]

That was my reason for buying them, the fact Goodyear have has a look at the wear ratting impressed me and ultimately sold me, anyone can make a tyre grip more by making it ridiculously soft like Bridgestone but it takes true skill to make a tyre perform as well but last twice as long, not many can do, Michelin is one who manage to do this.

They are made and engineered in Germany too, something a lot of people don't realize. They are quickly becoming the favorable OEM tyre on a lot of sports sedans and hot hatches.

Got out of Euro tires on the advice of one of our local mad hill climbers a few years back. (mid mounted Mk1 V8 escort driver)

Do you mean you got out of European race tyres or European tyres in general? European race tyres are not economical in NZ and that's why we don't run them!

Guess where all the top tyres are developed and where all the technology comes from, Bridgestone for example are all developed in Europe by Europeans

[Neal 544]

Apex , you make some valid points. Always thought the re-11 were a Japan special only that finally got released to the world market.

The orginal comment was tyres for my older 325i with 225/55/16's . He put me on to tyres that would have similar grip levels for about $150 per tyre cheaper than the Preilli or Michelin / Uniroyals. He was happy to sell me the later , but said that all I'd be doing was to help him retire earlier.

Apart from the Conti's the M3 had when I purchased I checked out Ps2's And pilot cups laughed at the price and went back to Bridgestones

BTW , what do you run for targa ?

Edited August 1, 2012 by Neal

[Apex 693]

For Targa we are on the control tyre, Federals. We run the two types, a set for the rain that are similar performance wise to your RE11's only they have stiffer side walls and softer compound and a set for the dry that are much like the Dunlop Semi Slicks. Like a lot of teams we are still coming to grips with them but am learning how they work, pressures, heat etc.

I would not discount the European Road tyres in terms of performance, like I said the ContiSportContact 5P that were on my car new last year were out of this world in every condition, tyres have come a long way in the last few years and you cant compare the technology from as recent as 4 years back to how good some of the new asymmetrics are as all rounders, they were so good I can honestly say that a good chunk of the cars talent was in those tyres.

It just so happens there are no Japanese or other Asian tyres that fit my car currently available in NZ that are similar to OEM in construction.

[ray ruthven 0]

Plenty of interesting comments again! and some more thoughts back in the "you gets what you pays for" camp. With my weekend driver I'm looking at at least 3 to 4 years of driving on a set so maybe the investment starts to make sense, especially going the Goodyear route which seems reasonably priced given the rave reviews I see everywhere. The one issue I am seeing is that the 245/45 seems to be asking for a $100 a tyre premium over the 245/40 - I have a hard time seeing the sense in that.

Apex, I sympathise with you on the issues with running a new control tyre, my son and I do Formula First racing and we changed control tyres for last season (average 70 profile street tyres) it took a while to realise that the operating window was different and the temperature drop off was very sharp. Made a mess of our pre-season handling experiment testing!!

RDR

[ray ruthven 0]

I had the car in for a warrant this weekend so took the opportunity to put back on an older set of tyres, just to make sure my memory was not kidding me.

Sport Contacts on the front and the Sumitomo's on the rear, and the car is MUCH better. Better feel, turn-in, balance and general driveability - the only down side is an increase in harshness at the front. I regret now going for a value/average option? the Sport Maxx. It definately reduced my driving pleasure for the last 12 months.

Obviously I still have to pick 'the best tyre' ! but I now have plenty of advice to weigh up.

RDR1

[ray ruthven 0]

Damn, you've thrown in another option 3 Pedals, I was leaning very strongly to the Michelin Pilot Super Sport, with the Sport Contact 3 and goodyear F1 asymmetric close seconds. I'd pretty much discounted the Pirelli's - no great comments and neither of the ones you mention do well in the tirerack tests or reviews - however I always used to run Pirelli's and have P7's on the E36 325 - nicely balanced and much better noise/comfort than the Direzzas, but not as responsive (which wasn't what we wre looking for). Have you tried the Michelin PSS? I've not seen anything bad about them other than the cost? Also which Bridgestones specifically/ RE11? Third on my list.

Unfortunately it still looks as if taking money out of the equation the choice is still not clear cut - although I suspect any of the ones mentioned will be rewarding tyres.

RDR1

[BMWTouring 20]

Pilot super sports are good, however as Rons says, Pirelli Pzero Rosso are very very good would rate them above BS RE050A RFT, had them on my E60 550i and get decent wear as opposed to Michelin PSS which will wear much quicker.

[ray ruthven 0]

Thanks for more confusing input! My previous conclusions from comments would have been that the Michelin PSS would be much better on wear, which would agree with their treadwear ratings. Seems as if there are confilicting points of view for most issues to do with tyres! although the ones at the top of the pile seem to be constant, it makes making a final choice less easy.

RDR1

[deshanv 0]

I personally have goodyear F1 asymmetric 2 on my m3. I purchased them in November last year when they first got released in NZ and they are awesome tires. Amazing in the dry and wet with incredible stopping power in wet and dry. Very quiet on the road. From what I remember they come with 9mm tread. I think I have done about 11000 km so far on these tyres and I have about 4-5mm thread left on the rears. I do use my car for daily commuting and now and again I drive it hard. I hope I was of some help. cheers

[Apex 693]

I personally have goodyear F1 asymmetric 2 on my m3. I purchased them in November last year when they first got released in NZ and they are awesome tires. Amazing in the dry and wet with incredible stopping power in wet and dry. Very quiet on the road. From what I remember they come with 9mm tread. I think I have done about 11000 km so far on these tyres and I have about 4-5mm thread left on the rears. I do use my car for daily commuting and now and again I drive it hard. I hope I was of some help. cheers

Have just fitted them to my car and I am warm on them so far, sure they have good grip but to be honest they are not that nice coming from Continentals 5P's, they lack the feel the Conti's gave making them unpredictable. Thinking it is because of soft sidewalls, I remember reading part of Good Years plan was to make the tyre lighter. I have only had them on a week and to be honest have only driven them on wet and damp roads and hope they come into form... but usually this happens because you adjust to them and forget how good the old ones were.

Its a bad feeling when you know you have fitted a tyre that you are unsure of, to think you have compromised your cars capabilities and will have to live with it for a year or spend another couple of grand on new tyres.

Dam you Continental for setting the bar and your prices so high

Edited August 9, 2012 by apex